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MISAOS WINNERS REVEALED (ANNUAL AWARDS)
Posts
kentona
CloseMaybe people were only considered the final episode when they cast their votes?
I don't think we can realistically control the motivations of the people who cast their votes for the misaos.
I don't think we can realistically control the motivations of the people who cast their votes for the misaos.
Me neither, and I don't think it would've changed the results much in this case because I don't think the quality of the game's episodes varies that much (what I think of their quality is irrelevant). As a general concept, though, letting episodic games compete as a collective for several years on the bounce is mind bogglingly retarded.
On the flip side, just as many people were upset that the recent IMTS episode wasn't able to compete as a full game in several categories because it is episodic (and thus "in Production").
Personally, I don't think it is mind-boggling retarded (or even just normal retarded) to allow episodic games be eligible for misaos.
Personally, I don't think it is mind-boggling retarded (or even just normal retarded) to allow episodic games be eligible for misaos.
I'm just going off precedent set in the industry. Half Life 2: Episode 2 wasn't grouped together with the original game when considered for awards and what have you; it even has separate ratings on critic websites.
Even though it is undeniable fan-fare for original episodes adds to the hype surrounding later ones, it is also undeniable that quality between episodes is going to vary - this makes it unfair to submit them for awards as a collective, especially when each episode is of decent length and when each episode is being released a decent length of time after the previous episode.
Even though it is undeniable fan-fare for original episodes adds to the hype surrounding later ones, it is also undeniable that quality between episodes is going to vary - this makes it unfair to submit them for awards as a collective, especially when each episode is of decent length and when each episode is being released a decent length of time after the previous episode.
Volrath
1574
It's nice to know there are some things in life you can count on.
I'm not sure if the votes for the game were determined by Arc VII itself or a sort of appreciation for completing the game as a whole. If someone had told us that the game was ineligible because it's won in the past, we wouldn't have put up a fuss. Of if someone wanted to designate it as "Master of the Wind: Arc VII" I would have been okay with that too. But we never heard either of those things.
Also, the game has come a long way since you originally played it. I hope you give it another shot and hopefully get through more than the first hour or so (try turning the sound on this time too).
I'm not sure if the votes for the game were determined by Arc VII itself or a sort of appreciation for completing the game as a whole. If someone had told us that the game was ineligible because it's won in the past, we wouldn't have put up a fuss. Of if someone wanted to designate it as "Master of the Wind: Arc VII" I would have been okay with that too. But we never heard either of those things.
Also, the game has come a long way since you originally played it. I hope you give it another shot and hopefully get through more than the first hour or so (try turning the sound on this time too).
Unfortunately, RMN wasn't designed with dealing with episodic games in mind. Or even patching, really. There are limitations and shortcomings in this website that lead to some issues like we've been discussing, but overall it works out pretty good. I am trying to tackle how to handle episodic games and their integration with RMN.
Unless you completely re-made the game from the ground up, I'm fairly sure it's still going to be shite. But that's not really my issue, other people are free to think what they want about the quality of your game (and they clearly like it, so what do I know?)
EDIT:
And yes, you can always count on me being a pessimistic cunt. It's good to know I am appreciated. <3
EDIT:
And yes, you can always count on me being a pessimistic cunt. It's good to know I am appreciated. <3
You could always make a post (or article?) about your favorite games from the past year and why you think that. People might be interested in your views.
Like I said during the nomination process, I've played a dissapointingly low amount of amateur games over the last year. I blame a combination of Skyrim, Starcraft II and Football Manager... along with, you know, life. It's a very sad state of affairs, and I'm certainly not going to have much time to make amends this year.
Besides, I'm not particularly bothered about the result and I've already said that I doubt anything would've changed based on what I'm talking about - Master of the Wind clearly has a strong following. I'd just like there to be more clarification on what constitutes a "complete" game and what doesn't. In my opinion, either episodic games are "incomplete" until the final episode is released or each episode is considered as a "complete" game in its own right - developers shouldn't be able to have their cake and eat it, so to speak.
Besides, I'm not particularly bothered about the result and I've already said that I doubt anything would've changed based on what I'm talking about - Master of the Wind clearly has a strong following. I'd just like there to be more clarification on what constitutes a "complete" game and what doesn't. In my opinion, either episodic games are "incomplete" until the final episode is released or each episode is considered as a "complete" game in its own right - developers shouldn't be able to have their cake and eat it, so to speak.
edchuy
965
author=kentona
Maybe people were only considered the final episode when they cast their votes?
I don't think we can realistically control the motivations of the people who cast their votes for the misaos.
I would think that most people who voted for MTW did it based on playing Arc VII recently (released on 19/11/2011), although I would think (as in my case) they have also played the other Arcs over time. I doubt that many of them have played the completed version (all Arcs) posted on 23/12/2011 before the Misao 2011 Nominations process and the actual voting. I would guess most voters for MTW are probably basing their vote of what they recall from the other Arcs plus the last one. Unfortunately, the Misao nominations process didn´t allow for MTW Arc VII to be a nominee as such and thus, we´ll never know. I suspect there was a LOTR: Return
of the King effect for the Oscars (although not quite as big a sweep for MTW). Personally, I do plan to play the completed MTW eventually (I hear there will yet be a new version!) and write a review for it as a whole.
author=kentona
Unfortunately, RMN wasn't designed with dealing with episodic games in mind. Or even patching, really. There are limitations and shortcomings in this website that lead to some issues like we've been discussing, but overall it works out pretty good. I am trying to tackle how to handle episodic games and their integration with RMN.
The one thing that wouldn´t make much sense at all would be to have separate gamepages for each episode and a separate one for the completed version. Probably the issue with episodic games rests more on the fact that they are released more often than not one at a time rather than in a cumulative manner. That not only affects things such as the Misaos, but also reviews as well. In a sense, each episode can be philosophically thought of as a "demo" (might not be the right word) of the eventual completed, cumulative one.
As for the Misaos, I would think that either the individual episode or the completed should be eligible as the nominees for categories other than GOTY and Most Promising Demo. GOTY nominees should include only completed games regardless of whether they were episodic or not.
The question remains whether individual episodes, if RMN could allow it (I would be kentona says it can´t to this one), whether we should nominate it for the Most Promising Demo category based on the logic presented before. I am not sure of the answer to that question, but for episodic games that are released cumulatively, I would say yes.
Regardless of all this, I say the RMN community should always recognize and honor quality as such!
I have no problem whatsoever with the results this year. I've been meaning to play MotW for like six years without ever getting around to it, but I've heard only good things about it. In terms of development priorities, it seems like my kind of game. Necropolis has very pretty graphics even though I utterly failed to contribute anything to the testing of it and Wither, while it too I've never played, has mad indie cred.
I like the Misaos. I like the idea of them, certainly.
That said, let's not ever forget what the Misaos really are--a glorified popularity contest where the votes cast have just as much or more to do with personal bias, game visibility, "marketing", support farming and advertising as they do with any supposedly objective standards of artistic quality or merit. An eminently game-able system which can produce skewed results even when no one bothers to game it. And named after something from Wapanese animoo, or possibly a soup.
Always take these things with a grain of salt and two aspirin and (insert ironic self-deprecation here) not too seriously and you'll be fine. *polishes his 2006 misaos quietly in the dark*
F-G shut up and review the seven games I released in your absence. <3
I like the Misaos. I like the idea of them, certainly.
That said, let's not ever forget what the Misaos really are--a glorified popularity contest where the votes cast have just as much or more to do with personal bias, game visibility, "marketing", support farming and advertising as they do with any supposedly objective standards of artistic quality or merit. An eminently game-able system which can produce skewed results even when no one bothers to game it. And named after something from Wapanese animoo, or possibly a soup.
Always take these things with a grain of salt and two aspirin and (insert ironic self-deprecation here) not too seriously and you'll be fine. *polishes his 2006 misaos quietly in the dark*
And yes, you can always count on me being a pessimistic cunt. It's good to know I am appreciated. <3
F-G shut up and review the seven games I released in your absence. <3
Acutally, given their extremely People's Choice nature, any reflection upon objective standards of quality or merit are secondary! Like, the vote is 99% based on personal bias, game visibility, "marketing", support farming and advertising, but the reason why the game generates bias/visibility/support etc... could be because it's, you know, a good game. Or maybe it's not! It's a secondary characteristic of these kinds of awards.
I've been stressing that since the very beginning about the Misaos (and if you don't agree with them as a concept, I encourage whomever to create your own awards that are more in line with your ideals and values!)
I've been stressing that since the very beginning about the Misaos (and if you don't agree with them as a concept, I encourage whomever to create your own awards that are more in line with your ideals and values!)
Acutally, given their extremely People's Choice nature, any reflection upon objective standards of quality or merit are secondary! Like, the vote is 99% based on personal bias, game visibility, "marketing", support farming and advertising, but the reason why the game generates bias/visibility/support etc... could be because it's, you know, a good game.
Anything is possible. : )
Actually, I'm not suggesting that anyone is voting for anything they don't think is a good game. Just that making a good game alone is almost never enough to get votes. I edited my post like eight or nine times from its original state so that it sounded more whimsical than vitriolic, since whimsy rather than vitriol is what I was going for.
AABattery
732
It's actually miso soup (but it's close).
I also agree that making a good game isn't enough to get votes. Best thing to do is post a lot of game updates to keep your game in the front page of the Games Section, (but not a lot to be annoying...)
I also agree that making a good game isn't enough to get votes. Best thing to do is post a lot of game updates to keep your game in the front page of the Games Section, (but not a lot to be annoying...)
Darken
982
i just find it sad that we have 13 categories but 3-4 games basically get them (or one game gets half of them). Should really just be best full game, best demo, best non rpg, and any new categories that are exclusive (genre based? best looking game that isn't out yet? etc.). It's better than LAST YEAR don't get me wrong. At least half the voters for MotW seem to have some sort of conscious and aren't voting it for everything.
just a thought on zerg rushing misaos...
just a thought on zerg rushing misaos...
Dissapointed SSB Crusade didnt enter in any category :C not even in Best Gameplay Mechanics or Best Non-RPG :C
