GAY CHARACTERS

Posts

I'll admit that Telia saying how hot Lyla was kinda scared me.
Mainly the RAAAOOOWWWRRR!!! I thought she was going to rape her or something.
author=calunio
Well, that's exactly the opposite of what I said. When I said "act gay" I was referring to things like... hitting on same-sex people, for instance. If there's nothing on the character's actions that show he's gay, then, for what matters, he's not gay.
This is exactly what I was getting at in earlier posts. Dude, heterosexual is not the default state of a human being. Someone is not straight until proven otherwise; you cannot assume to know a person's sexuality before they come out and say "I am x". People are not "straight until proven guilty"; no, they are Schroedinger's Sexuality: they are neither straight nor gay nor asexual nor pan nor anything else you can think of, because you don't know what they are. The only reason you assume a person is straight is because our society is built around the idea that everyone is straight; we live in a heteronormative world, AKA heterosexual is the "norm", and anything else is a deviation from that norm.

By your logic, if I never see a character hit on or show clear interest in someone of the opposite sex, they aren't straight, either. I mean, Link could be as gay as the day is long, because I've never seen him show anything other than friendliness to the opposite sex.
For one reason or another, people will always assume characters are straight until proven otherwise, no matter how flawed this logic may be. That's almost an automatic assumption. And you can't blame players for doing so. You're the game designer, you have to anticipate and try to program the game's impact on the players.
author=calunio
For one reason or another, people will always assume characters are straight until proven otherwise, no matter how flawed this logic may be. That's almost an automatic assumption. And you can't blame players for doing so. You're the game designer, you have to anticipate and try to program the game's impact on the players.

I don't assume this. I'm not arrogant enough to assume I know personal details about a person based on what I see, and a lot of my friends don't assume this, either. In fact, my best bro assumes that every dude he meets is gay until proven otherwise. So, yeah, be careful with those sweeping statements there, man.

I mean, I get where you're coming from here. This is more of a societal issue. But, man, like... even still. I'm not gonna hold people's hands because they aren't educated enough to realize not everyone is straight.
Craze
golden grand piano
11206
emmych
YO, CRAZE, HOW DO YOU FILL YOUR DAILY QUEER QUOTA?
I KNOW I FILL MINE BY WEARING COMBAT BOOTS AND LETTING MY BODY HAIR GROW WILD. SERIOUSLY HAVE YOU SEEN MY PUBES LATELY I'LL NEED A WEED WACKER TO HANDLE THOSE BAD BOYS
ALSO PUSSY IS DELICIOUS HAVE YOU TASTED THE DELICIOUS PUSSY THAT EXISTS OUT THERE IT IS WAY BETTER THAN DICK. LOOK OUT, LADIES, I AM COMING FOR YOUR QUIMS
ALSO MEN ARE TERRIBLE THEY SHOULD ALL DIE WE DON'T NEED THEM
I'M GOING TO GO PRAY TO THE GODDESS I'M A LITTLE BIT BEHIND IN BEING GAY TODAY NOW EXCUSE ME


I reblog every picture of Lee Pace on Tumblr daily and have crushes on men and chat up gay porn stars.

I MEAN <INSERT STEREOTYPICAL ACTIONS HERE> *LIMP WRIST SALUTE*

also every time somebody tells me "oh, you're so gay lol" I punch them

sometimes verbally, sometimes in my head, and occasionally physically, but at the very least they get +1 "I make craze sad" point.

re: LESBIAN TROPES

I have the worst problem at my university, which has like a 25% lesbian population or something insane like that... I see a cute dude in the distance and I'm like "wow that dude is cute" and then I slowly realize that it is a lesbian

STOP WEARING COMBAT BOOTS YOU FISHSTICKS
BUT I LOVE MY COMBAT BOOTS ;___;

actually I wear super cute ankle boots and gum boots because I am both fashionable and practical. B)

Also you're forgetting your gay lisp. SHAME ON YOU, PRONOUNCING THE LETTER S WHILE LIKING COCK. DB<
...I need to make a .gif of the inevitable cycle of promising not to trash up a topic after gunking it up, only to click on it the next day out of morbid curiosity.

I'm just posting to toss my hat into the QUEER FISTICUFFS ARENA though, since uh I actually am pretty firmly on calunio's side with the whole "most people assume straight until proven otherwise, this is why it's usually a good idea to include some indication of a character not being straight if they are indeed not straight." (Though I'll admit, I disagree with the "you can't blame players for doing so" since it's not really an issue of blame for me? I dunno I am not as coherent there.)

Emmych you're confusing me when you bring up heteronormativity, because this is exactly why I think people shouldn't be coy and ambiguous and all "MAYBE~ they're not straight" about it if they want me to give some kind of gold star for being inclusive. Or really care that they have a NOT STRAIGHT character in their game if it doesn't come up at all.

While I think "talk about gay stuff/acts gay" is terrible phrasing, yeah if I never see/hear a lick of said character expressing any interest whatsoever in the same sex, (bonus mention of Solitayre's mention of there being other ways to express affection) then I'm not going to tuck them into any kind of "gay characters I know of" folder in my head or anything. Even if I get all TEE-HEE SHIPPING~ about it since yeah me thinking a character COULD or MIGHT NOT be straight isn't the same thing at all.

I guess what I'm getting at... er I'll just copypasta from here:
"We’re talking about characters, not people. If I meet Fred, we killing a large number of werewolves that keep digging up my lawn and he then goes home to his boyfriend then yes, he’s gay even though I am completely unaware of the fact. The fact I don’t know whether he’s gay or not doesn’t change that he is gay. But, if I READ about the fictional character Fred killing werewolves and the book ends with the last fuzzy death and we have no GBLT label to attach to Fred? Then he isn’t GBLT – because even while a real person has a life beyond the book, a character does not. The entirety of that character’s existence is in those pages and if none of those pages include any reference to him being GBLT, then it doesn’t matter that we imagine that he COULD go home to a boyfriend, because he isn’t – he’s doing nothing. His story has ended and his existence is limited to those pages that contain nothing of his supposed GBLT identity."

Like yeah I also don't assume people to be straight...but this is because I've actively prodded myself to withhold judgement and not make assumptions, and I definitely used to do all kind of heteronormative things in the past and probably still do some now.

Dropping fancy social justice terms makes me want to vomit.

Edit: I feel the need to clarify that not everyone needs to aim for being inclusive and whatnot, but don't pull the ambiguous and wishy-washy stuff out, or bring it up only in offhand mentions and never in-game/book/show/whatever anywhere and then expect me to care about there being a NOT STRAIGHT character.
Craze
golden grand piano
11206
emmych
Also you're forgetting your gay lisp. SHAME ON YOU, PRONOUNCING THE LETTER S WHILE LIKING COCK. DB<


you should hear versalia and I chatting sometime, it's hilarious
author=calunio
So in theory, you could have a gay character and that would barely show, right? But what's the point? I think if you decide your character is going to be gay, that has to have some significant impact on story and characterization. He doesn't have to be all pink and queer, but having a gay character who never acts gay or talks about gay stuff is absurd.

As a matter of fact Dumbledore is gay. We never got any obvious hint throughout the books. J.K. Rowling announced it in response to fans' questions.
Link
But whether he'd been gay, straight, bi spiritual or whatever, his romantic life never were important to the story so I really don't see the point.

EDIT: Do we know how Cloud wipes his ass after taking a dump? No. Because it doesn't matter.
author=Avee
author=calunio
So in theory, you could have a gay character and that would barely show, right? But what's the point? I think if you decide your character is going to be gay, that has to have some significant impact on story and characterization. He doesn't have to be all pink and queer, but having a gay character who never acts gay or talks about gay stuff is absurd.
As a matter of fact Dumbledore is gay. We never got any obvious hint throughout the books. J.K. Rowling announced it in response to fans' questions.
Link
But whether he'd been gay, straight, bi spiritual or whatever, his romantic life never were important to the story so I really don't see the point.

EDIT: Do we know how Cloud wipes his ass after taking a dump? No. Because it doesn't matter.


Obligatory FUCK DUMBLEDORE, that is exactly the kind of thing I rail against in the post I made up there. But a lot of people seem to hold him up as some kind of progressive icon, so good for them, it's cool they can get good feelings from that I guess. I am just super bitter about it and will forevermore be.
@Penta: I wasn't disagreeing that people are gonna assume folks are straight, I'm disagreeing with the idea that straight is the default. That kind of thinking is stupid and dumb and pisses me off, and it kinda sorta really needs to change (which I don't think calunio was disagreeing with...? I recall mentions of the logic being flawed which yup I am all agreeing with that)

I think this is yet another case in which I get super frothy about a topic and then suck at communicating my points, so I'm gonna try again here: yeah, some people are gonna assume characters are straight until proven otherwise because this is the world we live in. I think this is total balls and get pissy when people do it. We do kinda need to show when characters are gay otherwise people aren't going to get it. I got mad about the "acting gay" phrase because I felt like calunio was insinuating that gay people do certain things that straight people don't do, rather than what I now think he meant (in re-reading it), which is, well... showing he audience they're gay by having them flirt/sex up/fantisize about/whatever the same gender.

I mean, I fuckin' hate that we have to do that because it's stupid, but society isn't at a place yet where the majority of people don't assume straight unless you're kicked in the head with an alternative. And yes, I agree that writers who kinda go "NO THEY ARE GAY~~~" and expect gold stars are in the same camp as those who make it a feature, not a piece of their character. But all sexualities are a piece of a character, so if it never comes up, it's never defined; gay or straight or whatever. I guess tl;dr everyone is nothing until it comes up in the story, so you still can't assume a thing about it.

Mostly I guess I am complaining about this kind of behaviour, even though I can be guilty of it sometimes, too. It's stupid and it's dumb and it's stupid and it quite obviously makes me froth everywhere with anger and rage and mad feelings.

Although man if you're gonna shit on fancy social justice terms, you should also shit on any other word that is more than one syllable and refers to a concept that is more conveniently explained in one word than in a phrase

EDIT: AGREED, FUCK DUMBLEDORE. Ah-haha yup that one is...just no J.K. Rowling gurl you are doing it wrong
Also if you want more attention for your books just write another one don't pull the suddenly gay card
author=emmych
Although man if you're gonna shit on fancy social justice terms, you should also shit on any other word that is more than one syllable and refers to a concept that is more conveniently explained in one word than in a phrase

It makes me want to vomit because this is a gaming (Edit: game-making? either way) forum and PREEEETTY far removed from any kind of place where I can drop terms like "heteronormative" or "cissexism" and not have to deal with most people thinking those are bizarre nonsense words I am making up to confuse them. (Or debate with me about their existence or what they mean when it is entirely what I don't want to argue about.) I drop them around you because you actually know what they mean and I don't have to add in more text explaining what this ONE word means on top of saying a bunch of other stuff. Like it ain't my job to educate people on what those things mean, but I'm also not going to bring it up if I have 0 intent on explaining it; that just invites trouble.

(I don't actually have anything to say about anything else because...yes I agree 100%, so...yay agreeing?)
I can't see how assuming somebody is straight if you don't have clues that point otherwise is wrong.
I meant, aren't straight people like 90% of the population? °° It's just statistics. It's not about it being "default" or "better".

I mean, talking about characters, if your story is set in a world where 90% of people are gay or bi or whatever, I'm going to assume every character that gets introduced is gay or bi or whatever.

Also, I fully support "fuck Dumbledore".
z.z Thanks everyone all your posts, which I promise I've not read, have been super helpful. ^---^ I'm glad you haven't taken the original purpose of this thread completely out of context like some crazy peeps do.
author=Cozzer
I can't see how assuming somebody is straight if you don't have clues that point otherwise is wrong.
I meant, aren't straight people like 90% of the population? °° It's just statistics. It's not about it being "default" or "better".

I mean, talking about characters, if your story is set in a world where 90% of people are gay or bi or whatever, I'm going to assume every character that gets introduced is gay or bi or whatever.

Also, I fully support "fuck Dumbledore".

I dislike that people assume it either way. The point is you can't assume; as that blog post that Penta quoted pointed out, if sexuality never comes up, a character technically doesn't have a sexuality. They aren't straight OR gay or anything else!

And yeah that Dumbledore shoe horn was ass
author=emmych
I dislike that people assume it either way. The point is you can't assume; as that blog post that Penta quoted pointed out, if sexuality never comes up, a character technically doesn't have a sexuality. They aren't straight OR gay or anything else!


But, as Craze said, everybody has a sexuality.
If a character's sexuality is never important in the story, I'll still assume he has one just because he's a human being. And, not having any clue about which one he has, I'm going to default on the most common one.
It's like assuming the character has favorite foods even if he never eats in game.
Craze
golden grand piano
11206
re: Dumbledore, I get your points but I reread the series afterward and it's like... yeah, I can totally see it. He has his dudes and his hags and his entire youth is basically SEXUAL TENSION with Grindelwald and

...

stopping now.

EDIT: I want McGonagall as my fag hag okay
I'm going to veer a little off-topic and put something forth for everyone here to review, since I think this is the best time for it. :D

In my story, one of my characters happens to be a lesbian. It isn't really touched upon - or even hinted at - for most of 2/3 of it, except perhaps within minor character interactions when she is mysteriously...silent. (she normally loves to comment on everything, and is quite a snarker!)

However, some time before the second act ends, the entire party prepares themselves to embark on what could very well be a suicide mission. In a discussion where all of the characters let out their feelings, worries, and personal stories, she admits to her homosexuality, and she feels extremely sad about never admitting her feelings to another girl at home (one of her bestest of best friends, as a matter of fact). See, at that point, she has already lived almost three years on a different world. Time is dilated on that world, and this causes one year in that world to equal five years on Earth...so by now her best-friend-and-possible-romance probably already has her own life, her own family. And everyone at home has probably already assumed that this character has long since died.

What do you all think about this situation?
BurningTyger
Hm i Wonder if i can pul somethi goff here/
1166
I think if done well it could work, though I'd suggest it not seem to completely come Out of nowhere.
I've occasionally done "coming out" plots myself but i try to not have it be the only defining characteristic- however in some very heterocentric settings it may well be a big deal. Usually though it's only part of the equation, though many such characters are often "outsiders" on multiple levels such as having preternatural ancestry.