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AN OFFICIAL *ENGLISH* VERSION OF 2K3 APPROACHES!
Posts
Hesufo
Closeauthor=KingArthurauthor=HesufoJust going to say that this concept of "spending time on this RM or that RM" being thrown around has no actual relevance to the question being asked, which is "Would you buy RM2K3 if we released it in English?".
Part of the cost of spending time and resources on one thing is NOT spending them elsewhere, and this is the main point of many people here; why waste time translating a 10-year old software for old times' sake? It is much more efficient to release resource packs for the current maker.
It does. The argument is "I would not buy English RM2K3, but I would buy new RMVXAce content". I've been told, however, that doing one thing doesn't limit doing the other, and translating RM2K3 has low comparative costs.
I'm just looking at it from a market perspective. It's ten years-old software, it's widely available over the internet and most games for it use rips and such. I see the benefit from releasing it in English today as minimal.
Liberty's main argument is "giving them a little extra profit" to spend on other projects. If you're so sure of this, then they should press on with the RM2K3 release, no questions asked.
Jakester
1662
I know the program is old, and illegal to use at the moment, but if they're gonna charge $20 to be able to legally use it, I think they should at least tweak with it a little bit. By that, I mean to have the option whether the the creator wants to use either ATB or Turn-based battle systems. I prefer if they got rid of the ATB altogether and made it a side-view turn-base system, but hey, that's just me. Actually, the ATB in RM2k3 is the reason I use/attempt to use all the other programs than RM2k3.
Of course this is just wishful thinking on my part that they would implement the option to go TB in RM2k3 and I'll sign the petition even though I'll never use RPG Maker 2003 because I am sure they are plenty of people who would like to use this program legally.
Of course this is just wishful thinking on my part that they would implement the option to go TB in RM2k3 and I'll sign the petition even though I'll never use RPG Maker 2003 because I am sure they are plenty of people who would like to use this program legally.
amerk
1592
And that's sort of what some of these patches fixed, the horrible ATB. One patch even turned it into turn-based versus ATB. So EB would not have to invest anything in updating it; all they would need to do is allow the users to use current patches to help the program. Sure it's an exception to the rule, but considering the program's age and how it doesn't allow for scripts like XP and up, I believe it's an exception that could be tolerated.... but that's just my opinion.
On the other hand, as others have stated, if you wish to continue to use the patches and plug-ins and are not planning to use your copy for commercial purposes, chances are slim that EB would really care. Unfortunately, once you install a patch or plug-in on your legal copy, you pretty much ruin your chances of ever selling a game with RM2K3 unless you can find away to revert back. Then again, the majority of users probably could care less about commercial investment and making money off of RM. It is a matter of support to EB, for sure, it just seems ludicrous that you would spend money for a legal copy only to turn around and break it by using a patch or plug-in that EB refuses to acknowledge.
On the other hand, as others have stated, if you wish to continue to use the patches and plug-ins and are not planning to use your copy for commercial purposes, chances are slim that EB would really care. Unfortunately, once you install a patch or plug-in on your legal copy, you pretty much ruin your chances of ever selling a game with RM2K3 unless you can find away to revert back. Then again, the majority of users probably could care less about commercial investment and making money off of RM. It is a matter of support to EB, for sure, it just seems ludicrous that you would spend money for a legal copy only to turn around and break it by using a patch or plug-in that EB refuses to acknowledge.
author=amerkevicius
So EB would not have to invest anything in updating it; all they would need to do is allow the users to use current patches...
But like it has been mentioned before, they just can't come out and say they "allow" such kind of thing. That would set a very bad precedent for them. If anything, they could officially support, say, DynRPG, which seems powerful and flexible enough to do pretty much anything any other patch out there. And since all plug-ins will come from users anyway, they wouldn't have to invest much on it beyond the initial purchase or whatdoiknow. But I bet even an option like that would bring a set of problems of its own, so... =/
Emirpoen
"Reality has come in sight. What did you see? What did you hear? What did you think? What did you seek? What did you do?"
1777
It gives them a little extra profit to spend on upgrades for the newer programs.
I wont completely dismiss this point, but I will say that I find this one a bit iffy, but that's just me
It helps them create good-feeling in the community, which was lacking thanks to the bungled job that Protexus did. (For those not in the know, they were the publishers of the older RMs. It wasn't until XP the Degica became the new publisher - hence why the newer ones have been released to the English community at all.)
Personally, I'm always going to have mixed feelings towards Enterbrain, and for good reason. Also, you mentioned Protexus... which is funny, because I recall getting my copy of VX through them, and if my memory is indeed correct, that contradicts what you had said. I think some fact checking and sorting is in order here, but we can deal with that after you're in better shape.
It makes you feel good about doing the right thing for a product that I know a lot of you have used and loved over the years.
Actually, the "right thing" to do would be to get VX Ace and turn the page once and for all.
It helps show the community that they can ask for things and they will be considered.
As far as RK2k3 is concerned, that's too little, too late. I think the best course of action really would to keep improving on VX Ace has built and not revert to an inferior product. Trust has to be built over time.
It allows you to use the RTP in any engine legally, as well as finish off that custom game you were making that time and gave up on because, hey what's the use if you can't sell it? (some people do think like this.)
*facepalm* To whoever honestly thinks this, let me say this; what good is being able to sell a game is it isn't worth buying?
I'm running low on thoughts here, as well as sleep, but I'll be back after some rest. Maybe I'll feel up to arguing a bit. A good argue is great for the soul, or so I hear~
Now despite the fact I think the idea is a bit absurd, I will also say that the idea of it NOT totally absurd. Totally absurd is paying 9.95 USD for a certain game that I reviewed back in late 2010 on this very site only for its maker to ragequit, then comeback for a short while then get banned for talking of selling the game ( Im not gonna be specific because I have a bone to pick with them and I don't want them to get any business).
tl;dr: Im not a fan of the idea, but I wont think any less of you if you do spend that $20 on it.
BurningTyger
779
Something along the lines of the above. Frankly I seriously think it's not worth EB's bothering to make money off an item they lost control of long ago. They should just throw their hands up, admit the pirates beat them, put it into the public domain and be done with it.
And before someone asks, I'd rather not bother trying to see it from their side - I'm quite happy where I am, thanks.
And before someone asks, I'd rather not bother trying to see it from their side - I'm quite happy where I am, thanks.
author=EmirpoenIt helps them create good-feeling in the community, which was lacking thanks to the bungled job that Protexus did. (For those not in the know, they were the publishers of the older RMs. It wasn't until XP the Degica became the new publisher - hence why the newer ones have been released to the English community at all.)Personally, I'm always going to have mixed feelings towards Enterbrain, and for good reason. Also, you mentioned Protexus... which is funny, because I recall getting my copy of VX through them, and if my memory is indeed correct, that contradicts what you had said. I think some fact checking and sorting is in order here, but we can deal with that after you're in better shape.
Protexis handled the EB! RM Products upto IGM. Then somewhere down the line, EB! stopped their partnership with Protexis and went with Degica.
Why don't people read posts? Because that was explained already. Man, I've been explaining this for the last few days. It never seems to end. >.<
~This~right~here~
Actually, I worked on this for a while too. A FAQ.
FAQ
Why now? Why not 10 years ago?
The simple answer? Because no one bothered asking for it.
The complete answer? Degica only took over the publishing of EB! products at the advent of XP. Up until that time Protexus was the publisher and they weren't really concerned with the English community. When Degica took over, they reached out to the Western community. It's thanks to them that we have any English makers at all. They also hadn't thought that it would be appreciated, so until a fan actually asked about it...
When they were asked they said, sure, let's see how much demand there is and if there's enough we'll do that.
Is it worth it for them to do this? Aren't they just wasting money that could be better spent on other things?
To quote Touchfuzzy, Admin of the official RM site:
In other words, the money they make back on this can be used to make other projects, like more resources for the newer makers. How is it a waste of their time to hire a few translators to make an English version of a game that might net them some profit back from a product they missed out on thanks to a shoddy publisher?
Why should we pay for something we already have?
There are two main reasons and they both boil down to ethics.
The first is that it's illegal to use the engine. Okay, get the laughter out of your system. I'll wait.
Seriously though, supporting the system that has been loved and used so much over the years is a great thing. It makes you feel better, for one, and encourages Degica to listen to the fans about what they want, for two. Me, I like the idea of owning RM2K3. I like the thought that I've given back to the people who had such a large part of my youth. I remember the first time I even found out there was an RPG Maker and how awesome it was, thinking that I'd be able to make my own game, just like the ones I'd played in my childhood. I love the idea of giving something back for that.
Another reason is the RTP. Currently, unless you bought the Japanese version, using the RTP in any engine is illegal. Remember that RTP is sounds as well as graphics. The legal usage of a selection of music and sound effects... do I need to quote how much it costs to 'buy' music to use that flows and fits together? Hundreds, if not thousands of dollars. Seriously.
Owning the program. In English. Legally. This means, barring any rips or other illegal content, you may sell your game.
Xp/VX/VXA are better! Also, do 2k instead!
That's not a question, but I'll respond anyway. Yes, they're better in a lot of ways, but for those looking to push themselves when it comes to eventing, for those who are new to the programs, for those who like old school RPG charm? 2k3 is a better bet.
2k... well, as much as I love 2k, 2k3 offers something that NONE of the other makers have. A default side-view battle system. Also, better eventing.
How much will this cost? They should add extra stuff!
I put these two together because they relate. Firstly, they've said right out that the cost would be set at $20. Not too bad, eh? This is a program in English and the RTP for use in any other engine. Neato~
Adding extra stuff would just drive up the price and make things harder on their end. A translation, maybe a bug fix for the agility issue... That's what they're offering. They aren't going to recode a whole new engine, they aren't going to add scripting features or higher resolution or redo the graphical side of the RTp or add self switches (;.;) because doing so would take away from their other projects and drive up the price.
But what about patches and things like Cherry's support programs? Aren't they illegal?
Yes, of course they are. To make the patches they had to mess with the source code of the game and that is against the EULA. That said, it's like using rips. It's illegal, but as long as you're not trying to sell the game and waving big red flags, Degica isn't likely to be bothered prosecuting you for it. I mean, how many prosecutions have there been with the pirated version? Or even with VX games that use the Tile Swap patch? I can think of two, perhaps, and those were really popular and well-known outside of the community.
It's like editing rom files. The companies won't go out of their way to police it unless someone throws up a flare of some sort (That one Chrono Trigger fangame comes to mind.)
Is this official or are you just trying to gather support for a cause that has no chance of occurring?
This is official. If 1000 signatures are raised, Degica will do this. Why? Because a fan asked. How awesome is that?
~This~right~here~
Actually, I worked on this for a while too. A FAQ.
FAQ
Why now? Why not 10 years ago?
The simple answer? Because no one bothered asking for it.
The complete answer? Degica only took over the publishing of EB! products at the advent of XP. Up until that time Protexus was the publisher and they weren't really concerned with the English community. When Degica took over, they reached out to the Western community. It's thanks to them that we have any English makers at all. They also hadn't thought that it would be appreciated, so until a fan actually asked about it...
When they were asked they said, sure, let's see how much demand there is and if there's enough we'll do that.
Is it worth it for them to do this? Aren't they just wasting money that could be better spent on other things?
To quote Touchfuzzy, Admin of the official RM site:
I'm going to use variables because I have no idea exact costs. Let's say we have Project 1 and Project 2.
Project 1 costs x to produce, and brings in 10x
Project 2 costs 2x to produce, and brings in 10x
If we do just Project 1 we make 9x, if we do just Project 2 we make 8x. If we did BOTH projects, we could make 17x.
Hence why if something sounds like we will make x's we will find the money to do it. Also, translating 2k3 if it does work out, could make a good deal of money as it has low costs comparatively to bring over, that could be used to FUND other projects.
In other words, the money they make back on this can be used to make other projects, like more resources for the newer makers. How is it a waste of their time to hire a few translators to make an English version of a game that might net them some profit back from a product they missed out on thanks to a shoddy publisher?
Why should we pay for something we already have?
There are two main reasons and they both boil down to ethics.
The first is that it's illegal to use the engine. Okay, get the laughter out of your system. I'll wait.
Seriously though, supporting the system that has been loved and used so much over the years is a great thing. It makes you feel better, for one, and encourages Degica to listen to the fans about what they want, for two. Me, I like the idea of owning RM2K3. I like the thought that I've given back to the people who had such a large part of my youth. I remember the first time I even found out there was an RPG Maker and how awesome it was, thinking that I'd be able to make my own game, just like the ones I'd played in my childhood. I love the idea of giving something back for that.
Another reason is the RTP. Currently, unless you bought the Japanese version, using the RTP in any engine is illegal. Remember that RTP is sounds as well as graphics. The legal usage of a selection of music and sound effects... do I need to quote how much it costs to 'buy' music to use that flows and fits together? Hundreds, if not thousands of dollars. Seriously.
Owning the program. In English. Legally. This means, barring any rips or other illegal content, you may sell your game.
Xp/VX/VXA are better! Also, do 2k instead!
That's not a question, but I'll respond anyway. Yes, they're better in a lot of ways, but for those looking to push themselves when it comes to eventing, for those who are new to the programs, for those who like old school RPG charm? 2k3 is a better bet.
2k... well, as much as I love 2k, 2k3 offers something that NONE of the other makers have. A default side-view battle system. Also, better eventing.
How much will this cost? They should add extra stuff!
I put these two together because they relate. Firstly, they've said right out that the cost would be set at $20. Not too bad, eh? This is a program in English and the RTP for use in any other engine. Neato~
Adding extra stuff would just drive up the price and make things harder on their end. A translation, maybe a bug fix for the agility issue... That's what they're offering. They aren't going to recode a whole new engine, they aren't going to add scripting features or higher resolution or redo the graphical side of the RTp or add self switches (;.;) because doing so would take away from their other projects and drive up the price.
But what about patches and things like Cherry's support programs? Aren't they illegal?
Yes, of course they are. To make the patches they had to mess with the source code of the game and that is against the EULA. That said, it's like using rips. It's illegal, but as long as you're not trying to sell the game and waving big red flags, Degica isn't likely to be bothered prosecuting you for it. I mean, how many prosecutions have there been with the pirated version? Or even with VX games that use the Tile Swap patch? I can think of two, perhaps, and those were really popular and well-known outside of the community.
It's like editing rom files. The companies won't go out of their way to police it unless someone throws up a flare of some sort (That one Chrono Trigger fangame comes to mind.)
Is this official or are you just trying to gather support for a cause that has no chance of occurring?
This is official. If 1000 signatures are raised, Degica will do this. Why? Because a fan asked. How awesome is that?
orochii
1720
So... It will leave the "deprecated"/abandoned status??? (EDIT: 'kay it will be always deprecated ahahah!). And it would be on stores again?? SWEET!!! I'm interested! Even if there's much more powerful software, I still love tiny RM2k3. Even if an Unreal RPG Maker existed (?).
Emirpoen
"Reality has come in sight. What did you see? What did you hear? What did you think? What did you seek? What did you do?"
1777
Alright, I signed this, and before anyone gets the urge to call me a hypocrite, bear in mind that I did this mainly for anyone from my old IRC channel way back in the day. (you guys know who you are).
InfectionFiles
157
Signed, hopefully it goes through just for the sake of "being illegal" no longing being an issue.
amerk
1592
And let me counter your comments with my own:
1. Liberty: You contradict yourself. Nobody bothered asking, but then you say nobody before Degica listened to us. Which is it, were we asking, or was nobody listening? I'll answer, people did ask, but nobody listened. Degica is great, and I give them a lot of support, but not for a program that has hit its prime and won't be upgraded to fix the problems.
2. I highly doubt revisiting an old product will spike their profit margin enough to create more resources. I call bull on that. If their reliance for add-ons and new makers relied heavily upon a dead program, they would have considered this a long time ago. They can generate a lot more money by putting effort into selling their current legal makers (especially the Ace) and still come out way ahead. This is nothing more than an attempt at gaining control over something lost a long time ago. I can't really blame them for it, but it's 10 years too late, in my opinion. The damage is done. Aside from that, how is pulling people away from their current cash cow a smart investment. Instead of encouraging people to move to an old and broken program, shouldn't they be finding ways for people to purchase the VX-Ace? Wouldn't that give their profit margin a bigger bang for the buck?
3. Yes, it's illegal. We've already established that 10 years ago. Yes, the plugs and patches are illegal. We get this already. However, I'll be damned to pay for a broken program, and I'll be damned to pay for a legal copy only to break it by applying patches and plugs. If EB can fix the flaws, great. If not, then a lot of people are better off employing the same system that has been in place for that past 10 years and saving their $20 for something better.
4. And let's be honest, how is subtly telling somebody to use the patches (albeit illegal) with their legal copy any different than casually pointing to google to find a pirated copy of RM2K3? It's not. Either you are all for supporting a legal copy (which includes keeping the EULA intact) or you're not. There is no middle ground. In other words, if you go and pay the $20 for a legal version, and then you turn around and break the EULA and apply the illegal plugs and patches, you're no different than a person with a pirated version. Sure you paid $20 but it certainly wasn't for support, because if it was for support you wouldn't be breaking the EULA.
5. So if it's not for support, what is it then? Easy, the resources. That's all anybody really cares about, is to legally own the resources. But why? The audio is decent, but come on, it's RTP. The tileset and charsets are so butt ugly compared to what's now out there. Do you really think somebody has a shot in hell in selling a game with these graphics, when RM2K3's resources are well known throughout the internet? And if you believe this, that deserves a facepalm. Seriously, if you're not going to customize your artwork (either by yourself or by hiring somebody to do it), don' bother making a game to sell (this applies to all RPG Makers). And if you aren't bothering to sell the game, then just spend your $20 on something else Enterbrain or Degica offers. Or, if you are planning to customize your artwork then do it on a much more efficient program.
6. And finally, the debate about a side view battle system is exhausting and a bore. XP, VX, and VXA have all supported side view. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to get this added in to the new makers, and it doesn't take a genius to set this as a default for their own projects. Look at all the games using Tankentai scripts. And let's not forget that the default side view for RM2K3 is horrible, more than any system I've played. I'd rather playing a hundred front view systems than play another game using RM2K3's default side view. If you get RM2K3, you're still going to have to spend a lot of time tweaking it, coding it, balancing it, and adjusting it so that it doesn't look and play so terribly.
1. Liberty: You contradict yourself. Nobody bothered asking, but then you say nobody before Degica listened to us. Which is it, were we asking, or was nobody listening? I'll answer, people did ask, but nobody listened. Degica is great, and I give them a lot of support, but not for a program that has hit its prime and won't be upgraded to fix the problems.
2. I highly doubt revisiting an old product will spike their profit margin enough to create more resources. I call bull on that. If their reliance for add-ons and new makers relied heavily upon a dead program, they would have considered this a long time ago. They can generate a lot more money by putting effort into selling their current legal makers (especially the Ace) and still come out way ahead. This is nothing more than an attempt at gaining control over something lost a long time ago. I can't really blame them for it, but it's 10 years too late, in my opinion. The damage is done. Aside from that, how is pulling people away from their current cash cow a smart investment. Instead of encouraging people to move to an old and broken program, shouldn't they be finding ways for people to purchase the VX-Ace? Wouldn't that give their profit margin a bigger bang for the buck?
3. Yes, it's illegal. We've already established that 10 years ago. Yes, the plugs and patches are illegal. We get this already. However, I'll be damned to pay for a broken program, and I'll be damned to pay for a legal copy only to break it by applying patches and plugs. If EB can fix the flaws, great. If not, then a lot of people are better off employing the same system that has been in place for that past 10 years and saving their $20 for something better.
4. And let's be honest, how is subtly telling somebody to use the patches (albeit illegal) with their legal copy any different than casually pointing to google to find a pirated copy of RM2K3? It's not. Either you are all for supporting a legal copy (which includes keeping the EULA intact) or you're not. There is no middle ground. In other words, if you go and pay the $20 for a legal version, and then you turn around and break the EULA and apply the illegal plugs and patches, you're no different than a person with a pirated version. Sure you paid $20 but it certainly wasn't for support, because if it was for support you wouldn't be breaking the EULA.
5. So if it's not for support, what is it then? Easy, the resources. That's all anybody really cares about, is to legally own the resources. But why? The audio is decent, but come on, it's RTP. The tileset and charsets are so butt ugly compared to what's now out there. Do you really think somebody has a shot in hell in selling a game with these graphics, when RM2K3's resources are well known throughout the internet? And if you believe this, that deserves a facepalm. Seriously, if you're not going to customize your artwork (either by yourself or by hiring somebody to do it), don' bother making a game to sell (this applies to all RPG Makers). And if you aren't bothering to sell the game, then just spend your $20 on something else Enterbrain or Degica offers. Or, if you are planning to customize your artwork then do it on a much more efficient program.
6. And finally, the debate about a side view battle system is exhausting and a bore. XP, VX, and VXA have all supported side view. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to get this added in to the new makers, and it doesn't take a genius to set this as a default for their own projects. Look at all the games using Tankentai scripts. And let's not forget that the default side view for RM2K3 is horrible, more than any system I've played. I'd rather playing a hundred front view systems than play another game using RM2K3's default side view. If you get RM2K3, you're still going to have to spend a lot of time tweaking it, coding it, balancing it, and adjusting it so that it doesn't look and play so terribly.
Shinan
3797
author=Liberty
Are mods to games like Skyrim strictly legal? I don't think so. You have to look at the source codes to make the mods, right?
Skyrim mods are legal.
Let me just state that the original FAQ was created in reply to other forums questions. It was a culmination of many questions. It wasn't aimed at any one site or person so I don't really know why you're replying to this... I mean, it wasn't meant as an argumentative piece. I just thought I'd share it. God.
That said, here, have some replies. Not like I haven't answered these things a billion times in the last week... ugh.
1 - Nobody asked after Degica took over. Nobody sent a letter or got in touch and asked them for the product. If you'd used a bit more thought, you might have been able to come up with that answer by yourself.
2 - They're already doing things for the community - they've been providing free resources, graphics and sound packs to purchase. That won't stop. Hiring a translator isn't going to interfere with that and will generate some more money for other projects. Every bit counts. As Touchfuzzy points out in that quote - for a small amount of money they'd gain back enough to more than pay the costs.
Also, way to miss the point, Einstein. It was asked for. They replied that if enough people wanted it, sure they wouldn't mind.
3 + 5 - They're not going to completely change up an old system - which would cost them more time and money and possibly interfere with their other projects. Realistically all we can hope for is a few bug fixes. You're also paying for the RTP. Why do people forget that fact? The RTP is a complete set of graphics that can be used in other engines... legally. It includes battle animations, battle actors, character and chipsets, music, sounds, parallaxes, monsters, pictures... God.
Just for that, I'm going to make an all RTP game and sell it. And then rub your face in it.
4 - Oh, and people don't use game hacks or ROMs or rips or Vidya gaem musik or a host of many other illegal things, even if they have the legal programs? I was pointing out that Degica and EB aren't going to crucify people over using patches on their program - whether it's legally bought or not - unless they go stupid and try to sell them/splash them all over the world. Hell, HR got into a game mag and never saw any lash back for the use of rips at all (at least, I'm pretty sure KentonA never got in trouble for it.) so it seems that EB turns a blind eye to 2k3. The only reason they're offering now is that they've been asked to. They wouldn't offer this if they hadn't been. They'd over and done with the program in that respect. So I don't see Cherry being crucified for his patches, same as I don't see edited Pokemon Blue and Red ROMs being hammered down by Nintendo.
6 - wow, you can code in a side view system?! OMG. Hallelujah~ Can you code in easy to use eventing and old school charm too? The thing that makes it different is that you don't have to fiddle around with stupid codes to try and make something work. It's ease of use is very appealing to those who are more intimidated by scripts and crazy workarounds. Sure, you could code in shit and there are a lot of neat scripts out there, but they all have their issues and even ones like Yanfly's looks crazy at times when you've got static sprites flying across the screen to hit and enemy with their static sword. Ease of use, my friend, ease of use.
At the moment you're really kinda coming off as an argumentative ass and frankly, I don't know why. It's not like this affects you personally in any way. You don't want to buy, fine, but don't ruin the fun for the others who would. Where's your arguement got you? Nowhere. I'd still buy and I know a lot of people still would no matter what a downer like you has to say.
Even Craze is less of an ass than you, because we all know his reasons for not liking the engine and expounding the newer ones. And on some points I agree with him, but for many reasons I'd still buy this. It's not stopping me from also buying other products that come out and it doesn't stop Degica from bringing out more products so... what's your problem?
(Thanks for clearing that up Shinan. I wasn't sure. :P )
That said, here, have some replies. Not like I haven't answered these things a billion times in the last week... ugh.
1 - Nobody asked after Degica took over. Nobody sent a letter or got in touch and asked them for the product. If you'd used a bit more thought, you might have been able to come up with that answer by yourself.
2 - They're already doing things for the community - they've been providing free resources, graphics and sound packs to purchase. That won't stop. Hiring a translator isn't going to interfere with that and will generate some more money for other projects. Every bit counts. As Touchfuzzy points out in that quote - for a small amount of money they'd gain back enough to more than pay the costs.
Also, way to miss the point, Einstein. It was asked for. They replied that if enough people wanted it, sure they wouldn't mind.
3 + 5 - They're not going to completely change up an old system - which would cost them more time and money and possibly interfere with their other projects. Realistically all we can hope for is a few bug fixes. You're also paying for the RTP. Why do people forget that fact? The RTP is a complete set of graphics that can be used in other engines... legally. It includes battle animations, battle actors, character and chipsets, music, sounds, parallaxes, monsters, pictures... God.
Just for that, I'm going to make an all RTP game and sell it. And then rub your face in it.
4 - Oh, and people don't use game hacks or ROMs or rips or Vidya gaem musik or a host of many other illegal things, even if they have the legal programs? I was pointing out that Degica and EB aren't going to crucify people over using patches on their program - whether it's legally bought or not - unless they go stupid and try to sell them/splash them all over the world. Hell, HR got into a game mag and never saw any lash back for the use of rips at all (at least, I'm pretty sure KentonA never got in trouble for it.) so it seems that EB turns a blind eye to 2k3. The only reason they're offering now is that they've been asked to. They wouldn't offer this if they hadn't been. They'd over and done with the program in that respect. So I don't see Cherry being crucified for his patches, same as I don't see edited Pokemon Blue and Red ROMs being hammered down by Nintendo.
6 - wow, you can code in a side view system?! OMG. Hallelujah~ Can you code in easy to use eventing and old school charm too? The thing that makes it different is that you don't have to fiddle around with stupid codes to try and make something work. It's ease of use is very appealing to those who are more intimidated by scripts and crazy workarounds. Sure, you could code in shit and there are a lot of neat scripts out there, but they all have their issues and even ones like Yanfly's looks crazy at times when you've got static sprites flying across the screen to hit and enemy with their static sword. Ease of use, my friend, ease of use.
At the moment you're really kinda coming off as an argumentative ass and frankly, I don't know why. It's not like this affects you personally in any way. You don't want to buy, fine, but don't ruin the fun for the others who would. Where's your arguement got you? Nowhere. I'd still buy and I know a lot of people still would no matter what a downer like you has to say.
Even Craze is less of an ass than you, because we all know his reasons for not liking the engine and expounding the newer ones. And on some points I agree with him, but for many reasons I'd still buy this. It's not stopping me from also buying other products that come out and it doesn't stop Degica from bringing out more products so... what's your problem?
(Thanks for clearing that up Shinan. I wasn't sure. :P )
prexus
309
I don't use rm2k3 but I did when it was new. I used it a lot, actually. rm2k as well.
No, no I would not buy this product if it was released.
Why?
Because what I already have, what I have already paid for, is better in every single way. XP, VX, and VXAce are better than Rm2k3 in every. single. way.
Who cares if the price point is different. I've already paid for these. I'm not going to spend $20 on something because it's cheaper than something I already paid for.
Rm2k3 was a pain to work with. An absolute pain. The only things that made it even bearable to use were the patches that would make using it just as illegal as it is now!
Also, who cares if they can sell an rm2k3 game? If they really wanted to, they could spend the couple of months it would take to port it 1:1 into XP, VX, or VX Ace, and sell it there. But, of course, they probably couldn't because they were either using RTP, Mack, or Ripped resources. There are exceptions, obviously, but being realistic? Probably 1% of the games made in 2k3 were using COMPLETELY custom materials.
This is a dumb idea.
Can we sign a 1000 signature petition to get them to fix the problems with VX Ace? I'd rather they work on a new and better product, or support their currently active product, than fuck around with decade old technology that isn't worth piss.
ALSO
In terms of breaking the law, and what have you. The reason that companies like Nintendo and Square go after any project that infringes on their copyright is because they HAVE TO. Copyright law works in a weird way. If they choose to allow a product through that uses anything they hold a copyright over, anyone else can cite that as the company releasing its rights over the work and legally create anything they want.
EB! can't come after anyone using rm2k3 illegally because they have let it go on for so long. There are massive communities which have communicated with EB! on several occasions. It would be impossible for EB! to deny that they knew there was an English patch, with a crack, that a massive chunk of people have been using for a decade. They have no legal right to persecute ANY person for using it.
No, no I would not buy this product if it was released.
Why?
Because what I already have, what I have already paid for, is better in every single way. XP, VX, and VXAce are better than Rm2k3 in every. single. way.
Who cares if the price point is different. I've already paid for these. I'm not going to spend $20 on something because it's cheaper than something I already paid for.
Rm2k3 was a pain to work with. An absolute pain. The only things that made it even bearable to use were the patches that would make using it just as illegal as it is now!
Also, who cares if they can sell an rm2k3 game? If they really wanted to, they could spend the couple of months it would take to port it 1:1 into XP, VX, or VX Ace, and sell it there. But, of course, they probably couldn't because they were either using RTP, Mack, or Ripped resources. There are exceptions, obviously, but being realistic? Probably 1% of the games made in 2k3 were using COMPLETELY custom materials.
This is a dumb idea.
Can we sign a 1000 signature petition to get them to fix the problems with VX Ace? I'd rather they work on a new and better product, or support their currently active product, than fuck around with decade old technology that isn't worth piss.
ALSO
In terms of breaking the law, and what have you. The reason that companies like Nintendo and Square go after any project that infringes on their copyright is because they HAVE TO. Copyright law works in a weird way. If they choose to allow a product through that uses anything they hold a copyright over, anyone else can cite that as the company releasing its rights over the work and legally create anything they want.
EB! can't come after anyone using rm2k3 illegally because they have let it go on for so long. There are massive communities which have communicated with EB! on several occasions. It would be impossible for EB! to deny that they knew there was an English patch, with a crack, that a massive chunk of people have been using for a decade. They have no legal right to persecute ANY person for using it.
If you want them to fix things with Ace, go to the official forums, start a topic and try to actually do something about it. Complaining isn't getting anything done. They've already brought out a few patches for some scripting issues they had with the first release. They do listen to input, if they're actually asked about it.
prexus
309
author=Liberty
If you want them to fix things with Ace, go to the official forums, start a topic and try to actually do something about it. Complaining isn't getting anything done. They've already brought out a few patches for some scripting issues they had with the first release. They do listen to input, if they're actually asked about it.
At no point did I say that they were not working on this. I have activated been actively keeping track of any bugs, problems, or missing features as I use VX Ace and have been active in helping resolve some issues at rpgmakerweb.com.
For the record, from reading your posts and your aggressively quick response times, I can assure you that you are the one coming off as an ass (not amerkevicus.)
If you posted this here to demand that we all sign the petition, you must really think you are an "RTP Princess".
If you posted this here to discuss the validity of revisiting an old product and whether or not it is worthwhile for Degica to legitimize it for the community, you are not being very conducive to the whole 'discussion' part.
