[POLL] WHAT IS THE BEST KIND OF VILLAIN/ANTAGONIST?

Poll

Which do you prefer? A bada$$ villain you love or a villain you just simply hate and want to completely destroy? - Results

Bada$$ Villain!
9
17%
Villain you trully hate.
8
15%
Neither.
13
25%
Something in between.
22
42%

Posts

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There are usually 2 big type of villains, the villain you hate and the villain you think is a complete bada$$/villain you love.

Villains that are usually really awesome, that just look bada$$ like Sephiroth from FF7, Cell from DBZ or Darth Vader, as evil as they are you just can't ever trully hate them, bacause they are so good at being evil and just happen to be bada$$e$!

And then there are villains that you just want to take down and want nothing more than to kick their a$$!! They are sleazy or annoying or do very evil things that just anger you and rub you the wrong way. Like that Sugou from SAO or the Celestial Dragons from One Piece(I can't think of any videogame one for some reason XD) Usually very cowardly villains that always insult you and manage to always get away with their evil deeds are good at this.

What do you think is the better kind of villain?
I am personally a fan of the type of villain who is only after his own sense of "just" goal. Not necessarily even a force you had to destroy, but someone who goes against the norm, general conception and tries to better the world on his own, sometimes mislead terms.
More of a different force, rather than an evil force.

Then comes badass. Especially those playing around for their own amusement.

The dodgy kind of villain I want to drop dead any time they open their mouth? I hate them, sure, but not in a good way. It's like having a characer like that. You can't shut them up, and getting rid of them is not rewarding, either. They just end up being a pain and decreasing the overall enjoyment.

And aside from that one I am all for varying flavour.
Well-written ones with a good, strong motive or reason for doing what they do, even if that reason is "I am an elemental being who has no malicious intent. I just AM."

That said, my favourite villain is Luca Blight - a complicated being who was just a man but rocked harder than the end-game boss and left a huge lasting impression. Mad, power-hungry, dispassionate, full of anger and hatred, with a good reason for being twisted but still unapologetically evil and malicious. Selfish yet intelligent and able to look past others' prejudices in order to use what he could to work towards his goal. Demanding of his men, no tolerance for failure, yet commanding loyalty and respect. A man who took no prisoners, demanded your compliance (or death) and was both well-dressed and well-spoken.
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
5958
OK, first of all, this isn't a fourth-grade classroom, you're allowed to say "ass."

I like villains that are sympathetic. Ones with strong motivations and interesting personalities that could almost be good guys. I don't think this is the same thing as badass, though. I like some "badass" characters like Magus from Chrono Trigger and Harvey Dent from The Dark Knight, but I think all of the characters you listed are lame - they're just walking outfits that fight really well. Jowy from Suikoden 2 and Seifer from FF8 fit the archetype that I like, but are definitely not badasses; they're really quite pathetic, but I think they're fascinating characters. Arthas in Warcraft 3 is a fantastic villain, but in World of Warcraft everything that made him interesting is gone.

I like stories that are tragedies, and that definitely plays into the types of heroes and villains I want to see. It's not a coincidence that every character I listed either starts out as a hero and later switches sides to become a villain, or does the opposite. Every villain was a good person once - some of them still are. I want to see how they got where they are now. I want it to feel real.

For totally different reasons, I also like Team Rocket. I'm not sure where that falls exactly.
I actually like villains that are more sympathetic and that you can kind of relate to why are they doing what they are trying to do and all. It makes them seem more human to me and maybe they were just impacted by a past event in their lives that’s making them blind to rage and all logical understanding, so they’re not really truly bad guys, per say, but they’re more fallen figures that have had something tragic happen to them and are wishing to seek answers or vengeance to their grief. The protagonist(s) may or may not fully understand what has happened to this said individual before the inevitable confrontation, but it’s always kinda neat how they handle it in the end. Do they talk out their problems and eventually both of them leave away unscathed and the villain changes his or her outlook on things? Does the villain eventually bite the dust only for the hero to develop sympathy or pity for him or her and develop further as a character more? Or maybe something else entirely.

I guess my favorite villain that kind of closely resembles to what I was saying is Dr. Wily from the classic Mega Man games. This guy is a freakin’ genius and has co-developed many of Dr. Light’s original robots in the past but was never given the full critical acclaim that Dr. Light got which made him go bat-shit insane and take vengeance out on the entire world. If he only gotten some of the praise that Dr. Light got originally - then who knows what he could have become in the end? I mean, yeah, his later creations became more shoddier as time went on compared to his past works, and that could be because of lack of funds, getting a lot older and desperate over time and Mega Man always getting in his way, but I like to think that it was because he was more fuelled by rage instead of sticking with his original core principles of building a good model robot that he was slowly starting to go downhill.
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
5958
I didn't realize Dr. Wily had more than 4 lines of dialogue spread across 9 games.
pianotm
The TM is for Totally Magical.
32347
Mustachio twirling, born to be bad, evil because it's the in thing types of villains are fun, guilty pleasures. They're fun to watch, fun to beat, and sometimes it's even fun to see them win, but let's be honest: they're terribad. They are the product of terrible writing and the only value they have is the over the top camp quality that they exemplify. These types of villains can be the bad ass, like Loki played by Tom Hiddleston, or the villains you love to hate like Kefka from Final Fantasy VI. The sad truth is that these types of villains are 2 dimensional. They either get by on their looks, or they get by on their quirks and they have almost nothing else going for them. It's okay to think they're awesome; they are.

The type of villain that I've described is the personification of chaos. It's the most common type of villain you see, because it's the easiest to write. It's part of the old Manichean narrative of good versus evil. In such stories, good and evil doesn't have to have a reason to be good or evil. The bad guy is evil. He's going to destroy the world, he tortures and maims and he steals candy from babies. He has huge black rings under his eyes because he stays up late plotting evil things. His book case has titles such as "How to be Evil," and "World Domination in Three Easy Lessons", and that's provided he even sees fit to have a home. Are you starting to see what I'm getting at? This guy doesn't watch baseball. He doesn't have a family. He doesn't paint landscapes when he's bored. If he has a pet, it's just as devious as he is. He always cheats at cards. Think about it. This is Sephiroth (who has the nerve to be named after the World Tree of the Kabbalah). This is Kefka. This is Garland. Except possibly for Vayne and Seymour, this is every Final Fantasy villain. This is the Dragon Lord.

These people aren't real. They've never existed and they never will. There is a simple truth that one should consider when writing the villain: nobody believes he is the bad guy. Everyone is the hero of his own story. The best villains are the ones who challenge your moral compass. Their logic and reasoning is just as valid as the hero's, and you often might find yourself thinking that the villain is a better man than the hero. The best villain earns your sympathy. The best villain makes you hate the hero. And you didn't even see it coming.
author=pianotm
These people aren't real. They've never existed and they never will. There is a simple truth that one should consider when writing the villain: nobody believes he is the bad guy. Everyone is the hero of his own story. The best villains are the ones who challenge your moral compass. Their logic and reasoning is just as valid as the hero's, and you often might find yourself thinking that the villain is a better man than the hero. The best villain earns your sympathy. The best villain makes you hate the hero. And you didn't even see it coming.


I don't think that's the case. Some people simple don't care about anyone else save themselves. Alternatively, they don't care about anyone who doesn't belong to "we". This is very common among criminals, an extreme sense of self entitlement and egoism dictating one's actions.

Anyway, I prefer competent villains. But when it comes to the poll, I think villains that are somewhere between works best for me. It's very hard for a villain to get my sympathy. Usually I won't feel any sympathy even if the villain has a very tragic backstory. Chance is I also won't agree with it's viewpoint at all, I tend to look at actions more than motivations behind them. On the other end of the spectrum, making a villain that I'm supposed to hate can easily make me hate the writer instead.

I'm most likely to enjoy a villain that is written so that I can understand her/him, but have still no restraints towards using lethal force against her/him.
I do like Garland as a villain, though (are there two different Garlands in the FF universe? I'm talking about the FFIX one). He was sort of a servant of the people of Terra, so was only doing what he was supposed to do, reinforcing the idea of servitude present in the characterisations of Steiner, Kuja, Zidane, the black mages, Garnet (well, I guess most of the main cast) - so, I don't know, I feel as long as a villain fits into the rest of the story thematically, that they have an actual purpose and meaning, it doesn't matter what type they are.

I'm a fan of tragedy and melodrama, so I quite like the sort of abject villainy in FFX's Jecht.

Seifer is a compelling character, too. I enjoy and even empathise with really weak, selfish characters like this. I don't know why XD I suppose because they still have humanity in that they're in a state of suffering as well, so you can engage with them emotionally, unlike an evil for the kicks villain.

And, the dudes/ladies who believe they're doing the best for everyone and can't see the error of their ways, like Seymour.

So... apparently I can't recall anything but FF examples.

Anyway, I disagree that some people don't view themselves as the villain. These characters can be interesting to write/observe as you can explore things like self-destruction, narcissism, etc.
You all have posted some very interesting opinions. And I do agree with the majority, I also prefer villains that believe they have good intentions, etc. Although wrong actions. And they aren't neccessarily villains or evil. Most important thing of any antagonist is that they need to be a well written character. I think a great antagonist I saw recently was The Chimera Ant King from Hunter x Hunter, im not giving any spoilers(I won't ruin this awesome arc for you), but the way the arc went was incredible. I hated him at first and by the end of the arc he was my favorite character. Can't call him a villain in the end, but he was the main antagonist and yet I felt like he was the main protagonist. Now that's how you make interesting and memorable characters!
pianotm
Everyone is the hero of his own story.


This is something that I wanted to touch on, but thankfully piano said it first and better than I ever could. I think video game writers really need to start getting wise to this shit, because as I've sat here reading the thread and trying to think of my favourite villains... None of them are from games.

In terms of FF games, it seems like the secondary/tertiary antagonists are always way better than the central villains. I recall my favourite villain from FF9 being Beatrix- a woman who does things or aids Brahne in doing things that make me hate her guts, like the sieges of Burmecia and Cleyra, but I could still respect as a formidable swordsman and the General of the Alexandrian Army. I think there's a lot to be said about a villain that can command respect.

But yeah, when it comes down to it, the villains I like and the ones I try to write in my own works are the villains who have reasons for what they do. I want them to be sympathetic, because like piano said, nobody thinks they're the villain- and if they do, they think there's a damn good reason for them to do it. Not even the most deranged psycho just woke up one day and burned down a city. Sadly I can't really think of many video game examples of this.

I also enjoy "force of nature" type villains, but only in the truest sense. Think of the original Terminator from the first movie- a villain that can't be reasoned with and will never, ever stop in its quest to kill you, no matter how badly damaged it becomes along the way. From a perspective of sheer horror these villains are really entertaining, but they need to be used in the right context.
True wisdom right there. We have a reason for what we are doing - we all do. Sometimes we just act out of habit and sometimes we just act on wrong information or flawed perception.
Making the bad guy bad because .. well .. he is evil! Made me facepalm when I heard that line in a game here.

There are decent villains in games as well, now at the top of my head..

One of my favorite villains would the one from Shadow Hearts in that regard.
There's the black witch in Luminous Arc 2, there's the antagonist in Radiant Historia who does fit the bill as well ...
Then there are the "antagonists" in SMT III .. the antagonists in Devil Survivor (if you can call it that? you can join either faction anyway, and the demons themselves wouldn't fit the bill so much)

.. and more.

I don't mind a villain that's evil just for the sake of it. Not everything needs to have a deep meaning or a complicated backstory behind it.
BizarreMonkey
I'll never change. "Me" is better than your opinion, dummy!
1625
One with a personality...

Like flimsy justifications or whatever make them at least be more than 'i am evil, mwaha that is all'.

Like the villain can be a self-serving piece of fucking garbage, as long as he or she commands some downright delirious sass or something.

Also having a comic relief chump villain can really be awesome. Saxxis is one of mine. But there are a lot of good examples, Maloriak: World of Warcraft, Dr Drakken: Kim Possible, Jack Sanders: Jim Long American Dragon (Probably got names wrong there).
^ that right here
The villain your story needs.


edit: I think my favourite villain is Lavos. His sheer abstractness and the differences in scale between him and Chrono Trigger's characters make him an ominous presence that isn't even evil, he just lives in another scale of live, which is impossible to be understood by the characters.

Likewise, Eve from Parasite Eve was another good one for me, for somewhat similar reasons, even though she's got a much lesser scale, her distinctively non-human nature makes for a thrilling experience -- especially if you consider she's inside every human being.
Ganondorf from OoT and Windwaker.
Actually, another villain/antagonist type I like is the unpredictable one that just makes you question yourself and your assumptions. Like Cave_Dog, for example. ^.^
A friend of mine said that the best villain is the one who is a good match for the hero, e.g. the Joker to the Batman.

I also think this is very true, having a villain that works perfectly for the hero is usually a great way to go.
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