Full Games List
Featured Games
New Games
Reviews
Media
Images
Blogs
Game Updates
Images Feedback Summary
Game Design Highlights
Tutorials
Articles
Scripts
Utilities / Plugins
Resources
Engines
Engine Bulletins
What is Makerscore?
Past Events
Achievements
Misaos
Forums
Post History
Chat
New to RMN?
Full Store List
RMN Music Pack (free)
SUPREME COURT STRIKES DOWN BANS ON GAY MARRIAGE IN US
Posts
JosephSeraph
View playlists
Closeauthor=EdgeOfChaos
Is it just me or does "queer" still sound like a insult (even though it was declared Politically Correct™ by the lgbt movement)
I'm not a native English speaker and I learnt it as a healthy term. I might be wrong though?
author=InfectionFiles
None of this is productive.
Go work on your games, people.
This is a landmark legal decision that affects many peoples' lives in profound ways. People are allowed to discuss it. Please don't try to shut it down. If this discussion makes you uncomfortable you don't have to participate.
@LockeZ: Someone's gender or sexual identity is not something you can break down into a series of logical arguments that can be explicitly supported or refuted. These are people's lives. Please don't try to pick people apart because it's amusing to you.
I'm mostly okay with how this discussion is going. Things are going to get heated and that's to be expected. Just make sure this thread doesn't become about whether being gay is right or wrong, what you think of religion, what you think of CashmereCat, etc. Everybody stay cool and be excellent to each other. Discussion is good. Pedantry is not.
the thing is RMN isn't a safe space for lgbtq+ people. it's just like any other public space. it's not an unsafe space either. what CashmereCat said wasn't good at all, but at the same time it wasn't so outright *dangerous* that it deserved all of the criticism it got on an RPG Maker forum.
as much as i hate that there are people who hate us still, whining about it and writing a sassy internet response really isn't going to change his mind or make RMN a safe space for me or any other queer person. CashmereCat saying that has little to no effect on queer people, or their ability to make games...
but it was very rude to make that sort of comment on a topic that was a cause for celebration for queer people
queer is an acceptable umbrella term that covers all sexualities (and gender identities?). it is by nature more inclusive than an acronym so i use it way more than lgbtqia+
as much as i hate that there are people who hate us still, whining about it and writing a sassy internet response really isn't going to change his mind or make RMN a safe space for me or any other queer person. CashmereCat saying that has little to no effect on queer people, or their ability to make games...
but it was very rude to make that sort of comment on a topic that was a cause for celebration for queer people
queer is an acceptable umbrella term that covers all sexualities (and gender identities?). it is by nature more inclusive than an acronym so i use it way more than lgbtqia+
Cash's a smart guy. He thinks about stuff. What we say does affect him, not in the way that we might want, but it is in fact experience and point of view which from what I know of him is something he does like to see, he does like to try and understand other people's realities. Even if he does hold his own beliefs.
emmych
817
author=EdgeOfChaosIt originally was a word used by LGB folks to describe their identities. It was then co-opted by straight people to be used as a slur. LGB people have be reclaiming it because it was historically our word to use, but there is a lot of debate within the community, because some folks still feel it is a slur/have had it used as a slur against them. I use it because it better describes my identity for reasons I'm not going to go into here.
Is it just me or does "queer" still sound like a insult (even though it was declared Politically Correct™ by the lgbt movement)
Short version is this handy flowchart: are you straight? -> Don't use it.
author=Feldschlact IVSee, this is the thing that always gets me: you realize that peoples opinions are never just opinions, right? This isn't a topic like "I hate random battles so I won't have them in my game!!" This is literally an opinion that has historically impacted people's lives. People thinking homosexuality is a sin is what prevented governments from taking action during the AIDS crisis. It's what saw countless LGBT people institutionalized, as in, literally put into mental hospitals and tortured for being queer. It's what can still get LGBT people fired, even in places like where I live where firing someone for their sexuality or gender is illegal.
And it's totally fine that you don't know. I'm just saying that you have to examine these situations in context when you're discussing them. Is an opinion like CashmereCat's an opinion that can lead down a much darker, road? Sure. But I'd wager that Cash is several steps (if not the whole staircase) away from say, the Westboro Baptist Church or worse, and he's probably an otherwise decent guy with a bigoted opinion based off a background of ignorance and unfamiliarity.
These awful things are allowed to exist because groups of people think it's okay. So, yeah, of course I'm gonna get frustrated when I see people crashing into threads of celebration and saying that people like me are inherently sinful (and therefore doomed to burn in hell). Like, for people late to the party:
author=CashmereCatI'm not exaggerating here? Like the word Sin literally came up. So here's the thing: I don't have to like this guy. I am actually 100% within my rights to say "nope I want nothing to do with this jerk because of their shitty beliefs". Yes, that's uncomfortable, but you know what? I don't care. CashmereCat is willing to judge my entire life based on who I love, so honestly: why should I give them the time of day? There are plenty of other smart and talented people who aren't also bigots for me to talk to.
I know you guys are gonna hate me for this, but I'm a Christian and I believe homosexuality is a sin, so I'm against the institutionalization and normalization of it.
author=Feldschlacht IVThis is actually a great example of the kinds of bullshit queer folks need to wade through, because hey, guess what? This wasn't an open forum for discussing the merits of homosexuality. It was a celebration. Cash DID crash into a queer friendly thread and leak their bigotry everywhere. It ain't cool.
Besides, this isn't inherently a 'safe space'. If Cash walked into a pride rally and said 'YEAH YOU GAYS' sure yeah GTFO, but this a an open forum for discussing a subject that was/is implied that all people can take part in, yes, even people with dissenting opinions.
Anyways, like I said before, I love myself, so I'm outta here! Here's hoping you all have a good convo.
Queer is a term that I grew up hearing only as an insult, so I get why it might feel weird to hear in a non-heated tone.
---
I think these discussions are important, and especially important for the people who hold shitty opinions but are open-minded enough to realize they don't know everything. I've been clueless in the past and listening to discussions like this helped me immensely. IDK, I def don't think we should just let people spew hateful things, and I absolutely understand the anger at them, but I think it's worth looking at where that opinion came from and whether that person might be willing to learn and change, if possible. Not all the time, because these discussions are immensely tiring, but if we can.
EDIT: Altho, emmych is right, this was intended to be mostly informative and celebratory... but I won't pretend I wasn't aware this might happen (I remember the Obama Was Elected topic). Anyway, whatever. It is what it is, now.
---
"Hate the sin, not the sinner" sounds forgiving, but it's still a harmful and dangerous opinion. I think I said this before, but marking someone as a sinner gives people the idea that the person is lesser - that, since they sin, they deserve judgement. Maybe it's a scornful look or some bad jokes, but sometimes it's much worse and people are hurt, or killed. And it's unfounded! A sin is something that's harmful to other people! Gay marriage harms no one! How and who other people have sex with harms no one! Life has enough problems without arbitrarily adding more shitty restrictions to it!
Restricting the freedom of marriage for queers is paramount to saying "you're not equal to the rest of us". Forgetting for a second the numerous legal inequalities it imposed, the US was basically saying, "you can be here, but we don't like it." And when your government says that, stupid people take it as a free pass to treat other people as lesser. This is the same kind of shit that has happened across every country in numerous cases - the countless restrictions placed on the Jews in WWII, the anti-immigration sentiment we have now in the US and Europe - it encourages the idea that some people are just not as good, and thus everyone else has free reign to treat them however they like. It doesn't have to be said explicitly; it's implied by the restrictions the gov't has created. Even if we remove those restrictions, people will still act on their prejudices violently, but at least it won't be supported by the leaders of our country.
---
I think these discussions are important, and especially important for the people who hold shitty opinions but are open-minded enough to realize they don't know everything. I've been clueless in the past and listening to discussions like this helped me immensely. IDK, I def don't think we should just let people spew hateful things, and I absolutely understand the anger at them, but I think it's worth looking at where that opinion came from and whether that person might be willing to learn and change, if possible. Not all the time, because these discussions are immensely tiring, but if we can.
EDIT: Altho, emmych is right, this was intended to be mostly informative and celebratory... but I won't pretend I wasn't aware this might happen (I remember the Obama Was Elected topic). Anyway, whatever. It is what it is, now.
---
"Hate the sin, not the sinner" sounds forgiving, but it's still a harmful and dangerous opinion. I think I said this before, but marking someone as a sinner gives people the idea that the person is lesser - that, since they sin, they deserve judgement. Maybe it's a scornful look or some bad jokes, but sometimes it's much worse and people are hurt, or killed. And it's unfounded! A sin is something that's harmful to other people! Gay marriage harms no one! How and who other people have sex with harms no one! Life has enough problems without arbitrarily adding more shitty restrictions to it!
Restricting the freedom of marriage for queers is paramount to saying "you're not equal to the rest of us". Forgetting for a second the numerous legal inequalities it imposed, the US was basically saying, "you can be here, but we don't like it." And when your government says that, stupid people take it as a free pass to treat other people as lesser. This is the same kind of shit that has happened across every country in numerous cases - the countless restrictions placed on the Jews in WWII, the anti-immigration sentiment we have now in the US and Europe - it encourages the idea that some people are just not as good, and thus everyone else has free reign to treat them however they like. It doesn't have to be said explicitly; it's implied by the restrictions the gov't has created. Even if we remove those restrictions, people will still act on their prejudices violently, but at least it won't be supported by the leaders of our country.
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
5958
Everyone's a sinner.
The good news is this thread still isn't as controversial as the FF7 remake thread.
The good news is this thread still isn't as controversial as the FF7 remake thread.
RedMask
1139
Wow this topic is growing fast I can barely keep up with it. I'm just going to post random stuff like this.
Link is showing his LGBT Pride.
PS Link is so crazy hot even in pixel form lol
Link is showing his LGBT Pride.
PS Link is so crazy hot even in pixel form lol
our government is recognizing marriages, and since our government is secular it doesn't need to consider that christians and whoever else believe that it is sinful. i don't want fucking brownie points with your religions people, you're not doing me a favor or anything to convert me. thanks.
all of this nonsense just because some people wanna get married :x
all of this nonsense just because some people wanna get married :x
author=LockeZ
I was talking about disapproving of actions, not being intolerant of people. And I was simply saying it's okay to have different opinions, not that it's okay to be intolerant of people whose opinions are opposed to yours.
previously on rpgmaker.net:
author=LockeZ
You're allowed to say so, and you're allowed to say you'd approve of the government regulating those things. That doesn't automatically make you a bigot.
ok, so x person wants the government to 'regulate' the gay sex out of existence... what could possibly be more intolerant? this is a scenario where one's tolerence is actually so low that they want it to be banned from transpiring anywhere. they dont even want to suspect in general terms that it may be happening somewhere in their vicinity, they want the government to regulate it so that it cant happen. this isnt just the mentality of a bigot but of a nutcase zealot
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
5958
So anyone who thinks anything is wrong and should be illegal is not only a bigot but a nutcase zealot? Or is it only if it's something you disagree with?
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
5958
It's funny because I'm not arguing against the supreme court ruling. The only thing I've argued for in this entire topic is that people should chill the fuck out and treat each-other with more respect instead of throwing out accusations and trying to ban each-other from the site. Apparently that idea is controversial enough to create five pages of debate, not about whether the ruling is correct, but just about whether it's okay to be civil to people who are against it.
well i've always been civil here haven't I? xD undgshjdfgsfh this thread is so tiredddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddd
@Adon237..why 237 :)
queer is an acceptable umbrella term that covers all sexualities (and gender identities?). it is by nature more inclusive than an acronym
Adon, that may be true in your circle of friends but your talking with some people who when growing up only heard that word in a very derogatory context.
I think this is the first post I made on this topic :)
The reason I am doing this is because I just finished reading an article on two women who have been together for 20yrs and along with their three daughters are planning a wedding.
This made me think about the effect of the relationship of the two women on their daughters.
It LOOKS like two men only adopt male children and two women only adopt or have daughters.
I'm happy the gay men and women who truly love another person of their own sex and can now be happy in so far as their own minds are concerned. They still may have a good deal of trouble intergrating with those who live and work near them.
I'm wondering how they raise their children.
Do the men unintentionally guide the boys in the direction of their own sex and the women nudge the girls toward other women.
Although I am not and will not say the men or women who love a partner of the same sex is abnormal, it is still not the norm? or the way the MAJORITY of sociaty think or feels.
I just hope they don't mess up the minds of their children unintentionally.
OK, you can now tell me how wrong I am :)
But is might have been better if the PEOPLE were able to make this law and have SCOTUS jam it down the throats of those who don't agree with this subject.
queer is an acceptable umbrella term that covers all sexualities (and gender identities?). it is by nature more inclusive than an acronym
Adon, that may be true in your circle of friends but your talking with some people who when growing up only heard that word in a very derogatory context.
I think this is the first post I made on this topic :)
The reason I am doing this is because I just finished reading an article on two women who have been together for 20yrs and along with their three daughters are planning a wedding.
This made me think about the effect of the relationship of the two women on their daughters.
It LOOKS like two men only adopt male children and two women only adopt or have daughters.
I'm happy the gay men and women who truly love another person of their own sex and can now be happy in so far as their own minds are concerned. They still may have a good deal of trouble intergrating with those who live and work near them.
I'm wondering how they raise their children.
Do the men unintentionally guide the boys in the direction of their own sex and the women nudge the girls toward other women.
Although I am not and will not say the men or women who love a partner of the same sex is abnormal, it is still not the norm? or the way the MAJORITY of sociaty think or feels.
I just hope they don't mess up the minds of their children unintentionally.
OK, you can now tell me how wrong I am :)
But is might have been better if the PEOPLE were able to make this law and have SCOTUS jam it down the throats of those who don't agree with this subject.
I could argue that it does have the potential to mess up the minds of their children yes, as much as being a straight parent has the potential to mess up the minds of children as well...
Actually much less, because queer parents often won't be as demanding regarding sexual, professional or whatever choices, and it is true that queer people in general are a little more understanding and mature when it comes to sexuality because we've had to go through that tough questioning & understanding phase. So well, there's a risk of messing up your children's minds as long as you're human (because people do shit), but having queer parents is potentially somewhat safer due to many reasons.
Actually much less, because queer parents often won't be as demanding regarding sexual, professional or whatever choices, and it is true that queer people in general are a little more understanding and mature when it comes to sexuality because we've had to go through that tough questioning & understanding phase. So well, there's a risk of messing up your children's minds as long as you're human (because people do shit), but having queer parents is potentially somewhat safer due to many reasons.
Well Sated, YOU'VE DONE IT AGAIN :)
You must have watched a lot of the old Odd Couple TV shows.
I never said nor do I believe that.
But, I do watch a lot of futuristic type movies :)
So IF the men a women guide their children to think the way they do.....
there might no longer be a race of humans.
May sound dumb, but what if?????? :)
You must have watched a lot of the old Odd Couple TV shows.
I never said nor do I believe that.
But, I do watch a lot of futuristic type movies :)
So IF the men a women guide their children to think the way they do.....
there might no longer be a race of humans.
May sound dumb, but what if?????? :)
