Full Games List
Featured Games
New Games
Reviews
Media
Images
Blogs
Game Updates
Images Feedback Summary
Game Design Highlights
Tutorials
Articles
Scripts
Utilities / Plugins
Resources
Engines
Engine Bulletins
What is Makerscore?
Past Events
Achievements
Misaos
Forums
Post History
Chat
New to RMN?
Full Store List
RMN Music Pack (free)
THE RPGMAKER HUMP
Posts
Pages:
1
Kaempfer
1932
Kaempfer
View playlists
CloseMany of you, surely, have felt the surge of energy you get when starting a new project. You get to do all that stuff you enjoy doing and seeing a new idea take shape, and the intro comes together and blah blah blah, but then a few months/years into the project suddenly... the energy isn't there anymore. You've done all the parts you wanted to do.
There is no shortage of ideas, but you're not sure how to present them.
There are gaps in the story/gameplay that you kept meaning to fill in, and can't put off filling in any longer (but still don't want to). You can get from Point A to Point F and all points in between, but Point H remains totally disconnected.
You've redone the same areas so many times that when you make a new area, it looks terrible by comparison.
I'm sure this has afflicted a huge number of game makers, but since I make RPGs, this is aimed at that group. What do you do to get past that terrible hump? Please don't say "you must plan before making rpgs nyarrr" or anything like that, since I'm not talking about "getting started" or "finishing touches", I'm talking about: Game is 29% done, but you're not sure what you should do next. This could mean the systems are mostly there, or the maps are mostly done, or any combination of any number of parts and variables. The point is, it's not complete (or even demo ready, you feel) but you really don't want to scrap it, since you'll just get to this point again. What do you guys do? (I know some of you just give up, but for anyone who has found a solution that works for them, I'd love to hear it!)
There is no shortage of ideas, but you're not sure how to present them.
There are gaps in the story/gameplay that you kept meaning to fill in, and can't put off filling in any longer (but still don't want to). You can get from Point A to Point F and all points in between, but Point H remains totally disconnected.
You've redone the same areas so many times that when you make a new area, it looks terrible by comparison.
I'm sure this has afflicted a huge number of game makers, but since I make RPGs, this is aimed at that group. What do you do to get past that terrible hump? Please don't say "you must plan before making rpgs nyarrr" or anything like that, since I'm not talking about "getting started" or "finishing touches", I'm talking about: Game is 29% done, but you're not sure what you should do next. This could mean the systems are mostly there, or the maps are mostly done, or any combination of any number of parts and variables. The point is, it's not complete (or even demo ready, you feel) but you really don't want to scrap it, since you'll just get to this point again. What do you guys do? (I know some of you just give up, but for anyone who has found a solution that works for them, I'd love to hear it!)
Work with somebody else that you can trust. That's hard though, so what I did for Demon Tower was set aside a week where I just did a berserk rush through everything that needed to get done.
I think Feld does the BLITZKRIEG thing as well. Work at stuff you like at whatever pace you like, then charge into the fray of displeasing errata.
I think Feld does the BLITZKRIEG thing as well. Work at stuff you like at whatever pace you like, then charge into the fray of displeasing errata.
1) Turn on the tunes
2) Crank it up
3) Unplug the CAT5
4) FIGHT IT OUT
Because sometimes you just have to sit down and get shit done since everything isn't sparkles and icecream and rainbows
2) Crank it up
3) Unplug the CAT5
4) FIGHT IT OUT
Because sometimes you just have to sit down and get shit done since everything isn't sparkles and icecream and rainbows
Yeah. Whenever Karsu and I have major work to do we find a 100 RPG theme countdown playlist on youtube and get crackin'.
Kaempfer
1932
Music is a great motivator, I agree. But sometimes it doesn't do the trick.
I RPGMake to have fun. I think part of the reason I hit the hump is because there is stuff that... isn't fun. I am wondering what the least painful way of getting through this is! Is there light at the other end of the tunnel?
Pairing up with someone you can trust is great advice, though. Their strengths can help to cover your weaknesses, and vice versa.
I RPGMake to have fun. I think part of the reason I hit the hump is because there is stuff that... isn't fun. I am wondering what the least painful way of getting through this is! Is there light at the other end of the tunnel?
Pairing up with someone you can trust is great advice, though. Their strengths can help to cover your weaknesses, and vice versa.
I just did a berserk rush through everything that needed to get done. This was usually followed by a few months of relative inactivity as I mustered up the willpower to do it again.
However, I often worked on little side projects to keep me sane. That way I could jot down and formulate new ideas and whatnot and keep the creative juices and motivation flowing WITHOUT throwing the new ideas into my current game (and bogging it down even more!)
I have a shittonne (metric ton) of text files with ideas that will never be implemented. I also have 2 semi-successful sideprojects to show for it.
However, I often worked on little side projects to keep me sane. That way I could jot down and formulate new ideas and whatnot and keep the creative juices and motivation flowing WITHOUT throwing the new ideas into my current game (and bogging it down even more!)
I have a shittonne (metric ton) of text files with ideas that will never be implemented. I also have 2 semi-successful sideprojects to show for it.
Kaempfer
Pairing up with someone you can trust is great advice, though. Their strengths can help to cover your weaknesses, and vice versa.
I think it will also help that somebody is relying on you to get your stuff done. When you only have yourself to dissapoint, its easier to work at a glacial pace IMO.
At the end of the day making a game requires a fair bit of effort and every part of it isn't going to be fun (yess lets play through my game to find bugs ONE MORE TIME
*edit*
Craze(EM)
Not adding new stuff to your game is terribly important.Everybody memorize kentona's post please.
Quoting 'dis
If your game was far along enough you could try releasing what you've done so far as a demo if you have not done so already. If you get decent feedback and people seem to like it, you may get the motivation to continue. That's just a suggestion and not something I've actually done.
I really wish I could give a proper answer, but this is something that happens to me as well and I don't think there is just one solid answer. Good topic though.
I really wish I could give a proper answer, but this is something that happens to me as well and I don't think there is just one solid answer. Good topic though.
Kaempfer
1932
post=106103
Not adding new stuff to your game is terribly important. Everybody memorize kentona's post please.
I think, though, that like all things a balance must be found. If you have some GREAT IDEA, it might be enough to propel you forward with the rest of the game. Of course, if you have too many GREAT IDEAS then you will never move forward with the game, which is equally dangerous. You also have to sort the ideas that are "good game ideas" and the ideas that are "good addition to game ideas". Good game ideas should never be applied to your current project (since hopefully it's already got one of those), but good additions can be considered if they can be implemented without draining you of your precious life energy and will add something of merit. Sometimes it's better to not start thirty games at once and just focus on one. I find that limiting the number of outlets I have actually helped me focus on those more. You just have to choose your outlets well, I think, and not have too much redundancy.
Here is a sample text file of mine:
This was one of my ideas to get into RMVX. I still intend to someday try it out in earnest!
Quirk!
A quirky little RPG in RMVX.
The land of Xnyndril is in peril! The Dark Lord Voidius and his army of netherdemons are destroying the world! The kingdom's many attempts to slay the evil lord have failed, resulting in a dearth of suitable heroes. To the kingdom's rescue are the Quirks, a motley band of heroes who have opted to pursue the more esoteric classes in their training. All the others - the paladins, the wizards, the rogues and the like - are dead!
There are oddball classes: Beekeeper, Facepuncher, Biomancer, Pixie, Guitaromancer, Merchant, Jester, Ghost, Droid, Mathamagician, etc...
This was one of my ideas to get into RMVX. I still intend to someday try it out in earnest!
FACEPUNCHER
Also, K, I think you're right. I was just saying that you really should avoid adding new stuff. Spur-of-the-moment ideas can be good, though - see feats in V&V.
Also, K, I think you're right. I was just saying that you really should avoid adding new stuff. Spur-of-the-moment ideas can be good, though - see feats in V&V.
Neophyte
155
I think every developer encounters this problem. As we make games, we're always getting better and better at it. And eventually time takes its toll on you and your project. Which is why time is exactly the problem!
When looking at the amount of time you spend on your project, there are lots of things to consider...
1. Spending too much time on something.
This can be applied to any part of your game. Taking too much time to map, code a battle system, animations, or work on anything that is tedious can be a part of this problem. As a perfectionist, I have had this issue in the past (and still do to an extent). And it's a double-edged sword when working on a project.
2. Too much time passing + not getting much done = bad
This is why you remake things. The problem here is that you're not producing enough content in order to make up for the past areas that are complete. You know those previous areas are complete, but since time has passed, your standards have risen (see #3). And now they don't feel as complete as the last thing you produced. Thus your project becomes a mess.
The solution to this is obvious. Spend time on your project where it counts the most. Modifying, fixing, and remaking things is addictive. The fact is that you will never be satisfied with your project. And why is that?
3. Because as time passes, your standards raise.
All you have to do is look at the rpg maker scene to know this is true. You have to recognize this and capitalize on it. You might not know it, but every project you create has a time limit. Who knows how long the time limit is, it could be 6 months or 2 years. Regardless, when that time limit has expired, your standards have been raised. What happens next is up to you. You can extend your time limit, but you can only extend it for so long since your standards are going to be raised again in those 6 months or two years. And the cycle will repeat.
Time is everything. That's why good organization, good design documents, and good story outlines are essential. They reduce the amount of time it takes to complete a project. Ask yourself how many months/years you have spent dedicated to your project. Was the time spent well? The answer is probably no!
I know this has applied to me in the past, but I'm positive that time management is the solution. Motivation is important too, but even that ties back to time. Hopefully you understand this mess of a post.
When looking at the amount of time you spend on your project, there are lots of things to consider...
1. Spending too much time on something.
This can be applied to any part of your game. Taking too much time to map, code a battle system, animations, or work on anything that is tedious can be a part of this problem. As a perfectionist, I have had this issue in the past (and still do to an extent). And it's a double-edged sword when working on a project.
2. Too much time passing + not getting much done = bad
This is why you remake things. The problem here is that you're not producing enough content in order to make up for the past areas that are complete. You know those previous areas are complete, but since time has passed, your standards have risen (see #3). And now they don't feel as complete as the last thing you produced. Thus your project becomes a mess.
The solution to this is obvious. Spend time on your project where it counts the most. Modifying, fixing, and remaking things is addictive. The fact is that you will never be satisfied with your project. And why is that?
3. Because as time passes, your standards raise.
All you have to do is look at the rpg maker scene to know this is true. You have to recognize this and capitalize on it. You might not know it, but every project you create has a time limit. Who knows how long the time limit is, it could be 6 months or 2 years. Regardless, when that time limit has expired, your standards have been raised. What happens next is up to you. You can extend your time limit, but you can only extend it for so long since your standards are going to be raised again in those 6 months or two years. And the cycle will repeat.
Time is everything. That's why good organization, good design documents, and good story outlines are essential. They reduce the amount of time it takes to complete a project. Ask yourself how many months/years you have spent dedicated to your project. Was the time spent well? The answer is probably no!
I know this has applied to me in the past, but I'm positive that time management is the solution. Motivation is important too, but even that ties back to time. Hopefully you understand this mess of a post.
Darken
3952
@Neo: I wouldn't call this a mess of a post bro. Also I love this topic since it easily relates to everyone here (even the people who have actually completed a game).
Lately I've been holding back on doing side projects. In the past I saw side projects as just a waste of time but really they're a way to pour in ideas you wouldn't be able to implement in your main one (insert side quest/project analogies here). Most of the time for my main project I am just juggling ideas on how so and so should be implemented and whether or not this is the perfect fit. But really I'm just going to try my best and throw the extra potential ideas in the side project bin, it's all about balance.
In the end there's no real shortcut or trick to getting a game done fast enough or efficiently without going off on some dis-interest syndrome because it wasn't meeting deadlines because you spent so much time wanking off and playing video games that you took inspiration from because of this endless gamer/creator cycle conflict spiraling into a void of production. You just got to buckle up.
Ow.
However, I often worked on little side projects to keep me sane. That way I could jot down and formulate new ideas and whatnot and keep the creative juices and motivation flowing WITHOUT throwing the new ideas into my current game (and bogging it down even more!)
Lately I've been holding back on doing side projects. In the past I saw side projects as just a waste of time but really they're a way to pour in ideas you wouldn't be able to implement in your main one (insert side quest/project analogies here). Most of the time for my main project I am just juggling ideas on how so and so should be implemented and whether or not this is the perfect fit. But really I'm just going to try my best and throw the extra potential ideas in the side project bin, it's all about balance.
In the end there's no real shortcut or trick to getting a game done fast enough or efficiently without going off on some dis-interest syndrome because it wasn't meeting deadlines because you spent so much time wanking off and playing video games that you took inspiration from because of this endless gamer/creator cycle conflict spiraling into a void of production. You just got to buckle up.
Ow.
Well I'm currently making my first game and i've already run into every point that has been made in this thread.
- standards rise, old stuff looks bunk
- you wanna try something new but it'll cost you an entire remake
- spending too much time on one thing
- TIME ITSELF
Since I'm not a hardcore rpg maker guy I don't know a lot of tips of the trade yet, I just kinda rm for fun, but that's where my problem arises, I just don't use the time I got wisely.
So i'm just turning on some rpg themes, because they're the best to get you into the rpg making attitude, and am about to make a major blitzkrieg speedrun through my game, fixing a bunch of stuff up and finally just murdering the last bit of eventing I have to do to just put chapter 1 behind me.
Then I can finally move onto some more testing and just wrap it up.
The downside about all this is I kinda taught myself how to parallax map during the making of my game (photoshopping is my only true skill :( ) and in the first chapter you'll notice my progress map to map.
After some thought I'm just gonna leave it as is, only adding a bit of extra eye candy here and there, but if I improved everything from scratch I'd be back to square one....again. -.-
I guess sometimes you just gotta decide to move on with what you got.
- standards rise, old stuff looks bunk
- you wanna try something new but it'll cost you an entire remake
- spending too much time on one thing
- TIME ITSELF
Since I'm not a hardcore rpg maker guy I don't know a lot of tips of the trade yet, I just kinda rm for fun, but that's where my problem arises, I just don't use the time I got wisely.
So i'm just turning on some rpg themes, because they're the best to get you into the rpg making attitude, and am about to make a major blitzkrieg speedrun through my game, fixing a bunch of stuff up and finally just murdering the last bit of eventing I have to do to just put chapter 1 behind me.
Then I can finally move onto some more testing and just wrap it up.
The downside about all this is I kinda taught myself how to parallax map during the making of my game (photoshopping is my only true skill :( ) and in the first chapter you'll notice my progress map to map.
After some thought I'm just gonna leave it as is, only adding a bit of extra eye candy here and there, but if I improved everything from scratch I'd be back to square one....again. -.-
I guess sometimes you just gotta decide to move on with what you got.
Neok
3602
Here's some of what I've learnt over the ages to tackle this issue:
- As mentioned, the two biggest issues are time and motivation.
- Learn when to say "Fuck it". I spent several months trying to iron out my storyline to perfection before I said "Fuck it", and just made semi-plausable explanations for things that don't quite flow very well. Honestly, I should've said it sooner.
- To add to that, figure out where you can skimp on things in order to save time. Background images, interactivity, that neat little sub-system you've got going there, how much does it add to your game? Would it be okay without it?
- Figure out ways to improve your efficiency. Use keyboard shortcuts. Print documents with relevant or useful information. Use map templates instead of starting from scratch each time. Etc..
- Time spent on side-projects is time not spent on your main project. But sometimes, you just gotta do something else for a while..
- Half of the deal is dedication, and the will to see your project to completion, no matter how much you think it sucks or how you have a much better idea. For me, I have tonnes of things I'd much rather work on over my current project. It's been this way since the day I started my first project 5-6 years back.
- Understand what you're willing to do and not do. For me, spriting is pretty fun. For my current project, I spent half a year spriting all the main characters and their battle animations. However, my tolerance for mapping is comparatively MUCH lower, and as a result, I tend to do that in small bits with frequent breaks to work on other things.
- Raise your motivation. Here are two ways:
- Play your game. This seems to work pretty well for me.
- Get feedback/ praise for your project. Say what you want, but deep-down, we all want to be praised for our hard work. For some people, this goes as far as being their lifeline; their number one reason for game-making. For this to happen, you'll need to figure out what the audience wants, and what you'll get praise for. I like to think of this as "The Brickroad Dilemma" (For info on who Brickroad is, ask WIP or any other RMN regular). I've certainly been here before (making a game that isn't in demand), but I make games for myself, so it's never been too big of a problem.
- Don't get demotivated. Expect the worst. At some point, someone's gonna tell you your game sucks and you're wasting your time. Someone else is gonna tell you all your systems are broken and you'll need to spend several hours fixing and checking things. If you're not ready to handle this, your motivation is going to drop to zero rather quickly.
- Break your game up into little components that'll let you see progress. This links to the whole play your game thing from earlier, as well as understanding what you're willing to do and not do. Work on the stuff you don't want to do, but keep something that you will want to do ready for when you cease being motivated to work on what you don't want to do.
- As mentioned, the two biggest issues are time and motivation.
- Learn when to say "Fuck it". I spent several months trying to iron out my storyline to perfection before I said "Fuck it", and just made semi-plausable explanations for things that don't quite flow very well. Honestly, I should've said it sooner.
- To add to that, figure out where you can skimp on things in order to save time. Background images, interactivity, that neat little sub-system you've got going there, how much does it add to your game? Would it be okay without it?
- Figure out ways to improve your efficiency. Use keyboard shortcuts. Print documents with relevant or useful information. Use map templates instead of starting from scratch each time. Etc..
- Time spent on side-projects is time not spent on your main project. But sometimes, you just gotta do something else for a while..
- Half of the deal is dedication, and the will to see your project to completion, no matter how much you think it sucks or how you have a much better idea. For me, I have tonnes of things I'd much rather work on over my current project. It's been this way since the day I started my first project 5-6 years back.
- Understand what you're willing to do and not do. For me, spriting is pretty fun. For my current project, I spent half a year spriting all the main characters and their battle animations. However, my tolerance for mapping is comparatively MUCH lower, and as a result, I tend to do that in small bits with frequent breaks to work on other things.
- Raise your motivation. Here are two ways:
- Play your game. This seems to work pretty well for me.
- Get feedback/ praise for your project. Say what you want, but deep-down, we all want to be praised for our hard work. For some people, this goes as far as being their lifeline; their number one reason for game-making. For this to happen, you'll need to figure out what the audience wants, and what you'll get praise for. I like to think of this as "The Brickroad Dilemma" (For info on who Brickroad is, ask WIP or any other RMN regular). I've certainly been here before (making a game that isn't in demand), but I make games for myself, so it's never been too big of a problem.
- Don't get demotivated. Expect the worst. At some point, someone's gonna tell you your game sucks and you're wasting your time. Someone else is gonna tell you all your systems are broken and you'll need to spend several hours fixing and checking things. If you're not ready to handle this, your motivation is going to drop to zero rather quickly.
- Break your game up into little components that'll let you see progress. This links to the whole play your game thing from earlier, as well as understanding what you're willing to do and not do. Work on the stuff you don't want to do, but keep something that you will want to do ready for when you cease being motivated to work on what you don't want to do.
Another tip: Don't start with the beginning. Karsu didn't make V&V's intro until like half the game was done, and the two story dungeons were made closer to the end, too. This feeds into the "standards rise" aspect - if you make the first stuff later on, it'll be better than if you made it to start with, and the absolutely horrendous "suffer through the start to get to the good stuff!" line never makes me want to play a game.
Darken
3952
post=106239
"suffer through the start to get to the good stuff!" line never makes me want to play a game.
This reflects on the developer too, sometimes the intro can be boring because there are no game-play related things to work with. Unless you actually make a badass intro where you're playing the character within seconds or something.
Drakonais
2787
Yeah I've always found listening to the theme I use in a given area inspires me to do work in that area and create an environment for the player to experience that music. Also, use time you should be concentrating on important things (school/work) to think of what's next in your game so you're excited to work when you get home.
post=106258I do this all the time! 99% of my ideas are generated when I'm at work or school with nothing more interesting to think about. It doesn't help my motivation as much as it should, but it's thinkin' time well spent (unless you have one of those hyper-involved classes/jobs that require lots of attention).
Also, use time you should be concentrating on important things (school/work) to think of what's next in your game so you're excited to work when you get home.
Pages:
1
