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DIFFICULT BOSS BATTLES, SKIPPABLE CUTSCENES, AND RAGE
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CloseAt the moment, I'm working on a project titled "Illogikal Hope". The story is pretty solid, so I've been trying to focus on the gameplay. My friend always whines about RPG bosses that involve spamming "Attack" or "Ultima" and basically rely on very little strategy beyond keeping everyone alive so they can repeatedly use attacks or cast nukes. He challenged me to create a game that would keep you on your toes.
So I did, or I'm working on it, anyway. I've tried to create boss battles with tricky (sometimes multiple) strategies involving exploiting elemental weaknesses and status effects (On bosses? Crazy, I know) as well as reactionary timing (he's going to counterattack if you attack now, or he's weak now, or if you don't stun him now he's going to wipe the floor with you). Needless to say, these bosses can be a pain in the rear for the standard "attack is the first command? A A A A A A" RPG player, especially those who can't figure out the right strategy.
However, the game is story heavy, so plot-driven cutscenes are inevitable. But I see the possibility of sprinting players skipping all of the cutscenes (which I would probably be tempted to do) if I make them skippable, then ragequitting when they had no idea what was going on.
So I came up with a compromise which I think kills two birds and a pheasant with one stone, and I'd like your opinion on it:
After you die to a boss (which I think will be inevitable for some of the harder ones), you are given advice on how to beat it, (revealing at least some key weaknesses - there is a character with "scan" too) and the game takes you back to a nearby save point. The next time you approach the boss, you are given a "would you like to skip this cutscene?" option, allowing you to avoid the frustration of another 20-minute sprite soap opera. (They're not actually 20 minutes... yet.)
It sounds like a great idea to me and would be fairly easy to program, but I'm sure it's got it's flaws. What do you think about the game design in general? Criticisms or suggestions would be helpful. Thanks :D
(and sorry for the planet of text)
So I did, or I'm working on it, anyway. I've tried to create boss battles with tricky (sometimes multiple) strategies involving exploiting elemental weaknesses and status effects (On bosses? Crazy, I know) as well as reactionary timing (he's going to counterattack if you attack now, or he's weak now, or if you don't stun him now he's going to wipe the floor with you). Needless to say, these bosses can be a pain in the rear for the standard "attack is the first command? A A A A A A" RPG player, especially those who can't figure out the right strategy.
However, the game is story heavy, so plot-driven cutscenes are inevitable. But I see the possibility of sprinting players skipping all of the cutscenes (which I would probably be tempted to do) if I make them skippable, then ragequitting when they had no idea what was going on.
So I came up with a compromise which I think kills two birds and a pheasant with one stone, and I'd like your opinion on it:
After you die to a boss (which I think will be inevitable for some of the harder ones), you are given advice on how to beat it, (revealing at least some key weaknesses - there is a character with "scan" too) and the game takes you back to a nearby save point. The next time you approach the boss, you are given a "would you like to skip this cutscene?" option, allowing you to avoid the frustration of another 20-minute sprite soap opera. (They're not actually 20 minutes... yet.)
It sounds like a great idea to me and would be fairly easy to program, but I'm sure it's got it's flaws. What do you think about the game design in general? Criticisms or suggestions would be helpful. Thanks :D
(and sorry for the planet of text)
AABattery
732
The hint thing reminds me of Shadow of the Colossus. When you take to long killing a colossus, the body-less voice will come up and say something like "Climb to new heights" or something like that...
All I have to say is that this is an EXELLENT IDEA! There are a lot of RPGs that have good gamplay and extreme battles, but when I die and have to review the same cutscene over and over and over, I get bored of it really easy.
As for the hint, I think you should make it into some kind of riddle that the player has to figure out. :D
All I have to say is that this is an EXELLENT IDEA! There are a lot of RPGs that have good gamplay and extreme battles, but when I die and have to review the same cutscene over and over and over, I get bored of it really easy.
As for the hint, I think you should make it into some kind of riddle that the player has to figure out. :D
Why not give the player a choice if they want to restart the battle in the same state as when they started FFMQ style? Don't give hints because that cheapens the accomplishment, or at least make it an option so those who want to be told can and those who don't won't.
All cutscenes should be skippable. All automated cutscenes should be pausable.
All cutscenes should be skippable. All automated cutscenes should be pausable.
I could definitely make the hints optional. I don't know about an "Easy" difficulty, because I don't want to lead people into thinking I'm actually making the bosses easier.
But I wouldn't make all cutscenes skippable. That would really only benefit people who are on their second playthrough, and I don't think my gameplay will be that amazing. It would just cause problems for people who tend to spam buttons and accidently skip cutscenes, and if people started skipping cutscenes you'd never seen out of boredom (or impatience) then you're not going to have any idea what's going on anyway.
But I wouldn't make all cutscenes skippable. That would really only benefit people who are on their second playthrough, and I don't think my gameplay will be that amazing. It would just cause problems for people who tend to spam buttons and accidently skip cutscenes, and if people started skipping cutscenes you'd never seen out of boredom (or impatience) then you're not going to have any idea what's going on anyway.
I'm actually an androgynous blob from the bottom of the ocean, sent by the upper caste of my tribe to live among mankind, learn your ways, and use video games to corrupt your core demographic, the 15-25 year-old video gamer.
Just like the Russians!
Just like the Russians!
SlashPhoenix
But I wouldn't make all cutscenes skippable. That would really only benefit people who are on their second playthrough, and I don't think my gameplay will be that amazing. It would just cause problems for people who tend to spam buttons and accidently skip cutscenes, and if people started skipping cutscenes you'd never seen out of boredom (or impatience) then you're not going to have any idea what's going on anyway.
Then you've got a bigger design flaw on your hands than repeating cutscenes to refight bosses: One time sources of important information. Knowing what to do next should never be limited or brought up one time. Players could be mashing buttons to move on and miss the one important line, get distracted, misinterpret what it means, or just plain forget. Then the player is fucked because they can't find out what they are supposed to be doing and the game simply won't tell them. Punishing players for forgetting or misinterpreting is a huge design flaw that should never be allowed to even come up.
As for accidentally skipping cutscenes, the solution is simple: Have a button pause the cutscene (extremely easy to do in RMXP/VX unless the scene is supposed to be synchronous with music) and bring up "SKIP CUTSCENE NO/YES".The player would have to accidentally pause the cutscene, push down, then confirm to actually skip it by accident.
I wouldn't give out important information like where to go next in a once-only cutscene, but there's going to be plot and character exposition in them, and I don't want that to be skippable. I'm not going to make NPC's stand around and repeat "He's the bad guy, you should kill him, remember that one time he killed your mom?", etc.
That sounds awful at best and I can't even think of a professional game that does that, but I don't think that's what you were getting at.
That sounds awful at best and I can't even think of a professional game that does that, but I don't think that's what you were getting at.
AznChipmunk
4613
If you are going to make cutscenes skippable, you should make all of them equippable. But I am not a fan of skippable cutscenes, because there is no reason to skip a cutscene unless it sucks. (Also my games are heavily plot driven.)
I'd like to skip cutscenes if I already saw it or replaying. In Sands of Destruction, pressing start automatically skips that cutscene while it plays, so maybe you can do something similar to that?
Being a button masher, I'd prefer that a popup window comes up that asks you if you want to skip the cutscene when you press button x (or whatever) instead. I hate it when I accidentally skip cutscenes. ):
Radnen
1806
You should never need to die purposely on a boss battle.
My bosses would be intrinsic to the story, so if you follow the story you'll automatically get hints as you progress. If you slop through all of the dialogue you'll end up missing important information.
My bosses would be intrinsic to the story, so if you follow the story you'll automatically get hints as you progress. If you slop through all of the dialogue you'll end up missing important information.
post=120889
You should never need to die purposely on a boss battle.
My bosses would be intrinsic to the story, so if you follow the story you'll automatically get hints as you progress. If you slop through all of the dialogue you'll end up missing important information.
This is a good point. It would be dumb as hell to force people to fight each boss at least twice. But the hint wasn't going to be the only source of information. A lot of it would be gleaned from previous monsters (with similar strats), hints in the dungeon (notes, warnings, secrets, or talkative NPCs), and clever intuition on the player's part.
There's also a character with a "scan" ability that gives hints as well. The only problem with this is that it might be too... necessary. If someone has an ability that reveals a big clue to defeating the boss, other available characters would have to be damn good to make up for not having that ability.
Maybe I should have a semi-rare consumable that does the same..?
Koff
1013
Why not give the player a choice if they want to restart the battle in the same state as when they started FFMQ style?
Sounds like the system they had in Baten Kaitos. If you were defeated by a boss, you were given the option of a prompt rematch - only rather than starting in the same state as before, you were taken to the menu and given the option of modifying your party setup. I think it's a little smoother than what's been suggested.
Aten
1570
Why not give the player a choice if they want to restart the battle in the same state as when they started FFMQ style?
I'm using this mechanic currently. Not just boss battles, but in every battle. If you die, you can restart the same battle from the same state you entered, (minus any items you used before you died). It's a great time saver rather then just getting a GAMEOVER and losing hours of work.
All great ideas imo this is what you should do.
1.Make the hints at the end of the battles optional (when you lose a message shows that goes something like "i think i know the bosses weakness wanna hear it (selsct choice:Yeah sure or No cheatings for losers) lol or something like that.
2.A choice to load game or restart battles when dead imma big fan of baten kaitos and loved this feature (good for those people who got so close to winning but lost due to one false move).
3.Yeah pressing start than choosing skip cutscene sound like the best option.
So basically when you die it should have a little menu with load,view hint,restart battle thatd be very sweet.
1.Make the hints at the end of the battles optional (when you lose a message shows that goes something like "i think i know the bosses weakness wanna hear it (selsct choice:Yeah sure or No cheatings for losers) lol or something like that.
2.A choice to load game or restart battles when dead imma big fan of baten kaitos and loved this feature (good for those people who got so close to winning but lost due to one false move).
3.Yeah pressing start than choosing skip cutscene sound like the best option.
So basically when you die it should have a little menu with load,view hint,restart battle thatd be very sweet.
SlashPhoenix
I wouldn't give out important information like where to go next in a once-only cutscene, but there's going to be plot and character exposition in them, and I don't want that to be skippable. I'm not going to make NPC's stand around and repeat "He's the bad guy, you should kill him, remember that one time he killed your mom?", etc.
That sounds awful at best and I can't even think of a professional game that does that, but I don't think that's what you were getting at.
I support giving the player the choice to decide if they want to sit through cutscenes. If the player is interested in the writing then they won't skip it. Otherwise you're just forcing them to sit through something they care nothing about. Making sure objectives are repeatable in some way is more important though.
For games that give you one time sources of information, you can cover your eyes and spin around in a room full of almost any sort of game and you'll win most of the time. As for games with skippable cutscenes, VP2 and KH2 come to mind. Then again the only other games I know with skippable cutscenes are FF12, Okami (Wii), Makai Kingdom (but that is a 'go to next area' game), and Godhand (but the whole game is "Facepunch people, move to next area")
