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I need to drag Vacant Sky through the mud one more time.
TFT- 08/25/2012 06:19 PM
LETS DO DIS!
So, in my previous blog I kind of railed Vacant Sky hard. I don't regret doing it, but as I read it a few days ago, I wasn't as constructive as I could have been. Uh, It's not my motivation in life to rag on people or their creations, like, sometimes it just comes out that way. The idea of creation is a beautiful thing, and that's what sets people apart in many ways.
I wasn't really addressing Vacant Sky as the sole reason for that post, it was several things on Kickstarter, and, I like to talk about Kickstarter a lot. It's a blessing for indie devs to get their foot in the door, and before that many people did not have the option available to them. It's incredible. A lot of people use it with bad intentions in mind though.
It comes down to people who want to create content, for other people to enjoy. And in the society we live in, it's pretty much an uphill battle. I think it's getting better, I was watching things on Youtube, they get sponsored and people create content for you to enjoy, and that's awesome. Like, I watch Youtube content more than I do T.V or movies, because a lot of the time, people just make more interesting things than Hollywood. They're rewarded for it, it's not handed out either, because a lot of the times your channel has to be of a certain quality, they don't get paid instantly, I've talked to a few popular people on Youtube and, like, they worked x years to be able to get funding to basically entertain human beings.
I have plans to Kickstart my own project. It would give me the ability to do things I couldn't do before. I won't be hiring 10 people, uh, everything will still be pretty much the same, but improved on to provide an entertaining experience. It's just not within my realm of ability right now, because I don't have the time like I did when I was on GW. Back then you could churn out content. Someone had actually flat out asked me, what the game would be like, and I thought about for a while, because the guy was a hardcore RM kid, and I said it's pretty similar to AAG. In terms of design, and gameplay. Now, I haven't taken any kind of inspiration or anything from AAG, but it just happens to be similar to AAG in playstyle. I liked the game a lot, and I think RN:Libra was in development before AAG. So, if you want to get an idea of how the game is, it's like AAG.
So, as someone like myself who wants to utilize Kickstarter, seeing people with unrealistic goals, lacking content, and all of that stuff, it gets on my nerves a little bit. I mean, like I said, Kickstarter is a big deal, people are donating to you to create something for them. So I take the idea very seriously.
I would really love to see rm games and developers utilize that website, but I really think there has to be a certain quality to it.
I am really bad at advertising, it's something I don't enjoy doing. I've been trying to do it a lot more, but every time it kills you a little because you look a d-bag dropping his stuff.
While I do plan on doing a Kickstarter, I don't really plan to ask for something ridiculous like 50k because we all know development isn't that expensive, despite what people think. A minimum goal would be 10k to get it done, let me accomplish what I need to do.
What's good is everything will be created in rm, because that's all I know. The problem lies within the restrictions. If a few things were fixed, it would be an amazing tool. I have to look towards other methods though, through funding.
But like I said, as it's being prototyped by myself in rm, I'm able to make the prototype content for free, so everyone can play it and enjoy it. It's not about me making a ton of cash and just hiring all this talent I don't know what the fuck to do with, I keep design in a scale and within my abilities.
The only downside is, the prototype content won't be as good. It's not my vision, as rm goes the battle mechanics will be broken, certain scenes will be cut, and it's like half a game. But it'll be free, it would be stupid for me to design stuff and put a price tag on it. So yeah, I just wanted to talk a little bit about that, Blogs are really lacking here, this is something that I usually post on my Tumblr, but I get a few emails and a few requests to post here more. I do my best to do so, to try and improve the quality of the website with what I have. Like I said before, it's very difficult to stay relevant in this community, you know it's a different group of designers, like I had said in some nobodies post about how bad RMN is.
Times change, people change, direction change. It's something you just deal with. That's life.
So yeah, about Vacant Sky, remember I was going to talk about that before I just rambled? Like I said I wasn't as constructive, and I thought I would share honest critique about the trailer and how to improve it. I'm not an expert, but the thing is people circle jerk a lot, people will say things are rad and cool when they aren't. Annnnd I hate that.
Now I'm using Chrono Triggers game intro, as an example and as my own personal tool to make a trailer with my own game. The thing is, CT intro is just clear, clean and it gets the point across. It's the bare minimum, because it was made in 1995, we've advanced very much, we're able to construct things that took 50 people down to maybe 2 or 3. Now you're probably thinking "LOL CT VS VACANT SKY U BAD BADDIE" I'm not really stacking the games together gameplay, story, character wise or anything like that. I'm just addressing the intro and what makes it so engaging. And you know, maybe someone might agree.
Man, I watch this now and it still stacks up, it's so good. Like I said earlier it's crisp, it's clean, it shows the different locations, and scenes, and game mechanics. And it really does get you pumped, man. And it's so simplified.
So let's talk about this. I like the logo, it's very clean, I don't have an issue with that at all. I joke about the music, personally but I don't think it's too bad, although I laugh. Now with the voice actors in the trailer, people either really hate voice acting if it's not professional, or are just easy to please. Like I said, it's fine, stuff like that doesn't bother me unless it's just god awful. And it's not.
People like Anime images, that's just reality. I personally don't like Anime visuals(most of the time), because you get gangbanged by Anime images daily. So, I don't think it really hurts or helps, you just kind of bob your head and go, okay. One of things that cripple the trailer for me, is the video editing software, you know with the shit rotating and cool effects, it doesn't stack up with the actual game content. Let me explain, it's like making an 8 bit game, and using an orchestra. It doesn't fit, like it jerks around with the atmosphere. It's by far a crucial flaw. A lot of games do that too. And the gameplay, the visuals. It's not really engaging, when I watched it, I just felt like, Oh RTP game with char moving up. Now I posted CT, because look how engaging it is, it puts all of the coolest scenes in the game into one mini trailer, and it just delivers.
With Vacant sky, it's just char move up. Is that really how you want your game represented? Is that a clear representation of what the game has to offer? It hurts me very much to say, but Sin's I think by Harmonic is slightly better, I mean don't get me wrong, I think it has almost as many flaws, but it really does make an attempt get grasp your attention.
Create different locations, Show the gameplay mechanics, There's no cool factor, it's just a char moving up through tiles. As a designer, that's something you need to do your best to basically avoid. It's one of the weakest parts about RPG's having to travel around, unless the locations are just really really engaging and interesting.
Study, SNES games, not specifically RPG's, just in general, study the locations, and improve on that. There are so many options. Do I think Vacant Sky is good based off that trailer, absolutely not, I feel like it would need a REAL fucking revamp in a lot of areas to appeal, but listen, it's not a personal grudge, I don't know the guy, unlike a lot of people I can respect good game design, even if the guy is totally awful.
I experience stuff like that as well, people say my art, my game, my pixels are bad, and it's good to admit when they really ain't "all" that, it makes it easier on yourself to take crit, because you aren't the best, you won't be the best, but it's important to be proud in your design choices and creativity, to an extent where you don't think you're better than everyone else, because you ain't.
So I felt like talking about that a bit, do something that can actually impress people you know, you can't use excuses like "it's just a prototype" or "that's what we need the money for" "everyone else is doing it why can't I get paid" etc-etc. Use your brain, use your creativity, especially if you have like 10 humans doing work for you.
If you want to rage, approve, agree, you know, feel free to do so. Games that go on Kickstarter and are commercialized in general represent your community. So, If you have garbage floating around, it kind of effects you, because the fact is, outside into the indie dev community, people do infact think RM is a joke, and it's not, but it's thanks to games like Aveyond and Unemployment Quest that pretty much assure that it's hard to take seriously.
I type "like I said" a lot. Also, if you find this interesting, or want to follow my own game journey, and have a Tumblr, feel free to check my personal blog:
RN DEV BLOG
(ps: reposting images/posts is gh8)
PPS: If you like this stuff, please subscribe to the blog, there is just no humanly way I can compete with other bloggers who post "lol crat game" so these blog posts vanish very quickly. Thanks.
So, in my previous blog I kind of railed Vacant Sky hard. I don't regret doing it, but as I read it a few days ago, I wasn't as constructive as I could have been. Uh, It's not my motivation in life to rag on people or their creations, like, sometimes it just comes out that way. The idea of creation is a beautiful thing, and that's what sets people apart in many ways.
I wasn't really addressing Vacant Sky as the sole reason for that post, it was several things on Kickstarter, and, I like to talk about Kickstarter a lot. It's a blessing for indie devs to get their foot in the door, and before that many people did not have the option available to them. It's incredible. A lot of people use it with bad intentions in mind though.
It comes down to people who want to create content, for other people to enjoy. And in the society we live in, it's pretty much an uphill battle. I think it's getting better, I was watching things on Youtube, they get sponsored and people create content for you to enjoy, and that's awesome. Like, I watch Youtube content more than I do T.V or movies, because a lot of the time, people just make more interesting things than Hollywood. They're rewarded for it, it's not handed out either, because a lot of the times your channel has to be of a certain quality, they don't get paid instantly, I've talked to a few popular people on Youtube and, like, they worked x years to be able to get funding to basically entertain human beings.
I have plans to Kickstart my own project. It would give me the ability to do things I couldn't do before. I won't be hiring 10 people, uh, everything will still be pretty much the same, but improved on to provide an entertaining experience. It's just not within my realm of ability right now, because I don't have the time like I did when I was on GW. Back then you could churn out content. Someone had actually flat out asked me, what the game would be like, and I thought about for a while, because the guy was a hardcore RM kid, and I said it's pretty similar to AAG. In terms of design, and gameplay. Now, I haven't taken any kind of inspiration or anything from AAG, but it just happens to be similar to AAG in playstyle. I liked the game a lot, and I think RN:Libra was in development before AAG. So, if you want to get an idea of how the game is, it's like AAG.
So, as someone like myself who wants to utilize Kickstarter, seeing people with unrealistic goals, lacking content, and all of that stuff, it gets on my nerves a little bit. I mean, like I said, Kickstarter is a big deal, people are donating to you to create something for them. So I take the idea very seriously.
I would really love to see rm games and developers utilize that website, but I really think there has to be a certain quality to it.
I am really bad at advertising, it's something I don't enjoy doing. I've been trying to do it a lot more, but every time it kills you a little because you look a d-bag dropping his stuff.
While I do plan on doing a Kickstarter, I don't really plan to ask for something ridiculous like 50k because we all know development isn't that expensive, despite what people think. A minimum goal would be 10k to get it done, let me accomplish what I need to do.
What's good is everything will be created in rm, because that's all I know. The problem lies within the restrictions. If a few things were fixed, it would be an amazing tool. I have to look towards other methods though, through funding.
But like I said, as it's being prototyped by myself in rm, I'm able to make the prototype content for free, so everyone can play it and enjoy it. It's not about me making a ton of cash and just hiring all this talent I don't know what the fuck to do with, I keep design in a scale and within my abilities.
The only downside is, the prototype content won't be as good. It's not my vision, as rm goes the battle mechanics will be broken, certain scenes will be cut, and it's like half a game. But it'll be free, it would be stupid for me to design stuff and put a price tag on it. So yeah, I just wanted to talk a little bit about that, Blogs are really lacking here, this is something that I usually post on my Tumblr, but I get a few emails and a few requests to post here more. I do my best to do so, to try and improve the quality of the website with what I have. Like I said before, it's very difficult to stay relevant in this community, you know it's a different group of designers, like I had said in some nobodies post about how bad RMN is.
Times change, people change, direction change. It's something you just deal with. That's life.
So yeah, about Vacant Sky, remember I was going to talk about that before I just rambled? Like I said I wasn't as constructive, and I thought I would share honest critique about the trailer and how to improve it. I'm not an expert, but the thing is people circle jerk a lot, people will say things are rad and cool when they aren't. Annnnd I hate that.
Now I'm using Chrono Triggers game intro, as an example and as my own personal tool to make a trailer with my own game. The thing is, CT intro is just clear, clean and it gets the point across. It's the bare minimum, because it was made in 1995, we've advanced very much, we're able to construct things that took 50 people down to maybe 2 or 3. Now you're probably thinking "LOL CT VS VACANT SKY U BAD BADDIE" I'm not really stacking the games together gameplay, story, character wise or anything like that. I'm just addressing the intro and what makes it so engaging. And you know, maybe someone might agree.
Man, I watch this now and it still stacks up, it's so good. Like I said earlier it's crisp, it's clean, it shows the different locations, and scenes, and game mechanics. And it really does get you pumped, man. And it's so simplified.
So let's talk about this. I like the logo, it's very clean, I don't have an issue with that at all. I joke about the music, personally but I don't think it's too bad, although I laugh. Now with the voice actors in the trailer, people either really hate voice acting if it's not professional, or are just easy to please. Like I said, it's fine, stuff like that doesn't bother me unless it's just god awful. And it's not.
People like Anime images, that's just reality. I personally don't like Anime visuals(most of the time), because you get gangbanged by Anime images daily. So, I don't think it really hurts or helps, you just kind of bob your head and go, okay. One of things that cripple the trailer for me, is the video editing software, you know with the shit rotating and cool effects, it doesn't stack up with the actual game content. Let me explain, it's like making an 8 bit game, and using an orchestra. It doesn't fit, like it jerks around with the atmosphere. It's by far a crucial flaw. A lot of games do that too. And the gameplay, the visuals. It's not really engaging, when I watched it, I just felt like, Oh RTP game with char moving up. Now I posted CT, because look how engaging it is, it puts all of the coolest scenes in the game into one mini trailer, and it just delivers.

With Vacant sky, it's just char move up. Is that really how you want your game represented? Is that a clear representation of what the game has to offer? It hurts me very much to say, but Sin's I think by Harmonic is slightly better, I mean don't get me wrong, I think it has almost as many flaws, but it really does make an attempt get grasp your attention.
Create different locations, Show the gameplay mechanics, There's no cool factor, it's just a char moving up through tiles. As a designer, that's something you need to do your best to basically avoid. It's one of the weakest parts about RPG's having to travel around, unless the locations are just really really engaging and interesting.
Study, SNES games, not specifically RPG's, just in general, study the locations, and improve on that. There are so many options. Do I think Vacant Sky is good based off that trailer, absolutely not, I feel like it would need a REAL fucking revamp in a lot of areas to appeal, but listen, it's not a personal grudge, I don't know the guy, unlike a lot of people I can respect good game design, even if the guy is totally awful.
I experience stuff like that as well, people say my art, my game, my pixels are bad, and it's good to admit when they really ain't "all" that, it makes it easier on yourself to take crit, because you aren't the best, you won't be the best, but it's important to be proud in your design choices and creativity, to an extent where you don't think you're better than everyone else, because you ain't.
So I felt like talking about that a bit, do something that can actually impress people you know, you can't use excuses like "it's just a prototype" or "that's what we need the money for" "everyone else is doing it why can't I get paid" etc-etc. Use your brain, use your creativity, especially if you have like 10 humans doing work for you.
If you want to rage, approve, agree, you know, feel free to do so. Games that go on Kickstarter and are commercialized in general represent your community. So, If you have garbage floating around, it kind of effects you, because the fact is, outside into the indie dev community, people do infact think RM is a joke, and it's not, but it's thanks to games like Aveyond and Unemployment Quest that pretty much assure that it's hard to take seriously.

I type "like I said" a lot. Also, if you find this interesting, or want to follow my own game journey, and have a Tumblr, feel free to check my personal blog:
RN DEV BLOG
(ps: reposting images/posts is gh8)
PPS: If you like this stuff, please subscribe to the blog, there is just no humanly way I can compete with other bloggers who post "lol crat game" so these blog posts vanish very quickly. Thanks.
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I think even with the present "prototype content" there is a potential for better editing and showcasing. I guess a lot of people nowadays think editing is just something you gotta get over with when you have programs that make it easy. Trailer editing is very much an art form on its own, and probably important if you expect moneys.
Dumping every voice actor clip you have lying around, is probably not a good idea. I'd just have a monologue describing the story. At the very first part there's something like "I died that day" but it's then interrupted by clips that are planned to be in further cut scenes (i think). That time could have been spent having the main character just describe a synopsis and then shut up for the sake of the music and gameplay footage. This is type of approach is really practical to me.
But idk, I guess all this money raising depends on how many VS fans happen to have credit cards. So I wonder if a better trailer would do anything.
Dumping every voice actor clip you have lying around, is probably not a good idea. I'd just have a monologue describing the story. At the very first part there's something like "I died that day" but it's then interrupted by clips that are planned to be in further cut scenes (i think). That time could have been spent having the main character just describe a synopsis and then shut up for the sake of the music and gameplay footage. This is type of approach is really practical to me.
But idk, I guess all this money raising depends on how many VS fans happen to have credit cards. So I wonder if a better trailer would do anything.
yeah, i do agree that video editing is an art style. takes a ridiculous amount of planning and set up, for sure. there are plenty of directions to take it, and with the technology/history in video games thanks to planet internet, there are plenty to draw inspiration from.
but like you said dude, like, quality isn't really an issue to some people and you just think to yourself ?????
but like you said dude, like, quality isn't really an issue to some people and you just think to yourself ?????
Nothing too helpful here, but I'd like to state that games with bog-standard mechanics claiming to "reinvent the RPG genre" really, really gets my goat. That tag belongs to games like Aetherion, or IMTS, or anything Rhyme has made ever.
My two cents.
My two cents.
I had the impression that claim was made not because of the game's mechanics but because of its story. Remember, you play as the bad guys or something. That's new, right? I bet no one has ever done it... Whatever the case, I think it's too big of a claim for anyone to make. I wouldn't believe it even coming from Square back when I still had faith in them. xP
As for the other thing... Yeah, I can understand that sentiment. Is perhaps less of a deal here, but that's exactly how I feel about rmn. etc...
Edit: ;D
As for the other thing... Yeah, I can understand that sentiment. Is perhaps less of a deal here, but that's exactly how I feel about rmn. etc...
Edit: ;D
author=alterego
I had the impression that claim was made not because of the game's mechanics but because of its story. Remember, you play as the bad guys or something. That's new, right? I bet no one has ever done it...
XD
author=Archeia_Nessiahauthor=alteregoXD
I had the impression that claim was made not because of the game's mechanics but because of its story. Remember, you play as the bad guys or something. That's new, right? I bet no one has ever done it...nice one btw
I've been trying to think of ways to improve RPG Maker's "image" for a long time. It's a difficult battle because it's almost impossible to get people around here to engage in anything, but there are a handful of projects on this site that I really do think are worthy of mainstream attention.
Not a lot, mind, but definitely some. IMTS is a good example, for instance.
Not a lot, mind, but definitely some. IMTS is a good example, for instance.
author=Solitayre
I've been trying to think of ways to improve RPG Maker's "image" for a long time. It's a difficult battle because it's almost impossible to get people around here to engage in anything, but there are a handful of projects on this site that I really do think are worthy of mainstream attention.
Not a lot, mind, but definitely some. IMTS is a good example, for instance.
Set Discrepancy Set Discrepancy Set Discrepancy Set Discrepancy Set Discrepancy Set Discrepancy Set Discrepancy Set Discrepancy Set Discrepancy Set Discrepancy Set Discrepancy.
And so on.
Like I said I wasn't as constructive, and I thought I would share honest critique about the trailer and how to improve it.If you'd like to provide critique for Vacant Sky, the profile is here for you to comment on: http://rpgmaker.net/games/1046/
I always welcome feedback and critique, but I don't typically go looking at other games' blog posts for it. :)
On the subject of kickstarter, one of the biggest gripes I have is the rewards that game developers offer. "Oh if you give us $200 then you'll have an party member named after you" which is even more horrendous when it's a game made in rpg maker. So what is that then ten seconds of a quick edit? Get out. People like should be rounded up and shot for treating their loyal fans as garbage. David Cranes Jungle adventure has the worst reward I have ever seen and I'll quote "Pledge $10,000 or more, have lunch with the team and spend an afternoon in the jungle venture office-kicking around ideas, pounding your fists on the desk dramatically, sipping soda from the finest goblets and generally being part of the magic." The Reality spend an afternoon sitting on our office coach whilst we snigger behind your back and treat you to an McDonalds all for of the price of $10,000.
The best rewards are usually where people actually feel like their part of the creation process. There's a reason why kickstarters such as Mercenary Kings are doing so well at the moment.
It'll be really difficult to shift people's perspective on the RM community even with the odd above average game here or there. You would of thought that space funeral or any of Calunios games would of done something about that by now. But the people out of the loop (let's say the rest of internet) would probably think of Aveyond and Unemployment Quest when the word Rpg Maker is uttered. This has to change. And the only way for that to happen is there to be a major polar shift in attitude when it comes to quality and taking risks.
The best rewards are usually where people actually feel like their part of the creation process. There's a reason why kickstarters such as Mercenary Kings are doing so well at the moment.
author=Solitayre
I've been trying to think of ways to improve RPG Maker's "image" for a long time. It's a difficult battle because it's almost impossible to get people around here to engage in anything, but there are a handful of projects on this site that I really do think are worthy of mainstream attention.
Not a lot, mind, but definitely some. IMTS is a good example, for instance.
It'll be really difficult to shift people's perspective on the RM community even with the odd above average game here or there. You would of thought that space funeral or any of Calunios games would of done something about that by now. But the people out of the loop (let's say the rest of internet) would probably think of Aveyond and Unemployment Quest when the word Rpg Maker is uttered. This has to change. And the only way for that to happen is there to be a major polar shift in attitude when it comes to quality and taking risks.
author=StarSkipping
It'll be really difficult to shift people's perspective on the RM community even with the odd above average game here or there. You would of thought that space funeral or any of Calunios games would of done something about that by now. But the people out of the loop (let's say the rest of internet) would probably think of Aveyond and Unemployment Quest when the word Rpg Maker is uttered. This has to change. And the only way for that to happen is there to be a major polar shift in attitude when it comes to quality and taking risks.
Actually, the typical perspective of RPG Maker to an outsider is "What's RPG Maker?" They have no preconceptions, usually.
Maybe Kickstarter is starting to change that? Is this the beginning of the end?
i agree with you star skipping that david crane is an old piece of garbage, along with greg pabish(dat bitch)
if you guys don't know, i'll give you a little insight on greg. he is literally this fat, wealthy rich video game and movie distributor throughout the 90's. the guy is rich, and also owns the rights to action 52. he recently "kickstarted"
cheetahmen 2
if you guys don't know what cheetahmen is, it's an awful action 52 game, all of the games are garbage on that. the games were made by amateur designers in college at the time, in like a month. anyway, cheetahmen is literally broken glitch wise, long story short some kid on the internet fixed it so everyone can rom it for free, why they would is beyond me. but greg wants to generate 60k to re-distribute cheetahmen with the fix.
so basically, what i'm saying is, kickstarter, in a lot of ways try to help people get started financially with projects, will soon be monopolized by the wealthy.
i don't agree with you on perks, in a weird sense, it really depends on the project. if it's david crane and his hd quality mansion videos, yeah he should have some incredible perks. but, generally you don't donate to a cause and expect a great reward, you find something that you're interested and you support it.
a lot of small indie guys can't afford shirts, jewels, go kart rides for their fans, i mean in the scope of things you have to keep rewards practical, and i mean, i don't think that's directly shitting on fans. it's just "bro if i were rich and could do all these things for you i would but i am on ks because i'm not" in most cases.
if you guys don't know, i'll give you a little insight on greg. he is literally this fat, wealthy rich video game and movie distributor throughout the 90's. the guy is rich, and also owns the rights to action 52. he recently "kickstarted"
cheetahmen 2
if you guys don't know what cheetahmen is, it's an awful action 52 game, all of the games are garbage on that. the games were made by amateur designers in college at the time, in like a month. anyway, cheetahmen is literally broken glitch wise, long story short some kid on the internet fixed it so everyone can rom it for free, why they would is beyond me. but greg wants to generate 60k to re-distribute cheetahmen with the fix.
so basically, what i'm saying is, kickstarter, in a lot of ways try to help people get started financially with projects, will soon be monopolized by the wealthy.
i don't agree with you on perks, in a weird sense, it really depends on the project. if it's david crane and his hd quality mansion videos, yeah he should have some incredible perks. but, generally you don't donate to a cause and expect a great reward, you find something that you're interested and you support it.
a lot of small indie guys can't afford shirts, jewels, go kart rides for their fans, i mean in the scope of things you have to keep rewards practical, and i mean, i don't think that's directly shitting on fans. it's just "bro if i were rich and could do all these things for you i would but i am on ks because i'm not" in most cases.
author=Soli
Actually, the typical perspective of RPG Maker to an outsider is "What's RPG Maker?" They have no preconceptions, usually.
This is an interesting topic to bring up, because some people here don't even understand this. The only RM game that the internet gives a fuck about is Yumme Nikki, anything else close is a talk of the month by a vague margin of indie peoples. It's very strange because none of us here have any idea of how far RM in general reaches (or can reach).
RM2000 (and even back to 95) spawned a community where everyone in it was familiar with the limitations of the program and could even refer to it as some sub sub medium. It gets even more weird when you consider innovating in the RM scene vs innovation in video games. I get the feeling people nowadays don't care about either. Which is probably for the best. All these ideas haunt me when I realize they probably don't mean shit and should be buried in GGZ island. Do we reject the "misao culture" or just be humble nobodies????????
author=CHAOS
Nothing too helpful here, but I'd like to state that games with bog-standard mechanics claiming to "reinvent the RPG genre" really, really gets my goat. That tag belongs to games like Aetherion, or IMTS, or anything Rhyme has made ever.
People can finally modify the battle system to their liking and all of the sudden there's innovation for the entire genre, haha ok idk. I ain't even disagreeing but it's funny when this is brought up. Regardless it's probably just Sail trying to sell his game (hint: businessmen do not always believe their own words).
author=Darkenauthor=SoliThis is an interesting topic to bring up, because some people here don't even understand this. The only RM game that the internet gives a fuck about is Yumme Nikki, anything else close is a talk of the month by a vague margin of indie peoples. It's very strange because none of us here have any idea of how far RM in general reaches (or can reach).
Actually, the typical perspective of RPG Maker to an outsider is "What's RPG Maker?" They have no preconceptions, usually.
This is limiting, but at the same time it's also liberating.
It's limiting because as long as you're using RM, the chance of actually making it big is basically zero. Even stuff like BE:D or Space Funeral that get noticed outside this community are extremely small potatoes.
But it's also liberating. You can't approach this from the perspective of "the internet thinks RM is crap" because the internet in general has no idea what RM is or what it's capable of. They aren't judging you based on your using RM, because they don't give half a damn if your game is fun to play.
This is why I'd love to see some of the better games this community produces get advertised outside this extremely small, insular, and often poisonous community. The problem is the average RM user is way too terrified to ever do that.
Space Funeral did well because catmitts posted it at a bunch of places. A lot of other games could do well too.
author=Solitayre
This is why I'd love to see some of the better games this community produces get advertised outside this extremely small, insular, and often poisonous community. The problem is the average RM user is way too terrified to ever do that.
Space Funeral did well because catmitts posted it at a bunch of places. A lot of other games could do well too.
RM communities can produce great products, but they are volatile places, often poisonous as you mentioned.
A handful of games wow us, most games are made by hobbyists who don't care about the quality of their work all that much, or if they do, they don't really apply their principles. This is fine, I'm not really saying this is a bad thing at all because if the user is having fun then that's all that matters. If they want to share their games, then they should be able to. There are people out there that would play these games as well, sometimes I do too.
You must understand though that a lot of gems will be obscured because of this though. It happened at gamingw, and many other communities. Catamites hated how the old gamingw (saltw now) was filled with RM game advert topics which knocked his game off the front page in like 10 minutes.
I think users can make whatever they want, but I also feel that users should inspire for more rather then settling. This is what I feel a lot of users are doing today, they are settling with less rather then trying to improve their game for the better. There are fewer visionaries. I'm not trying to knock "casual" games here. As long as people enjoy making games and people play their games then whatever.
There doesn't need to be a division between casuals and people who seriously attempt to make full, quality games with higher production values. But regardless, if you neglect either sides you'll definitely see divisions. People will not want to share their games because they don't feel like there is equal representation. Some people felt the old Meridian Dance were elitists. But a lot of those members felt like they weren't equally represented here or in other RM communities. A lot of good game creators end up going Indie because they outgrew these types of communities. Catch my drift?
There needs to be somewhat of balance between those more ambitious, creative projects and casual games. The ones that stand out generally get the "indie" label attached to them. Especially when the aforementioned games get popular outside these
RM communities are small, niche communities, closed communities that sometimes garner closed, cult like mindset which can be dangerous. If an anime game gets 6000 downloads, then 10-20 other new users will make an anime game themselves.
It's the same with RTP vs Original assets. Everyone used rips, mack and blue, and rudra back at gamingw. It was the standard, so it was considered normal to basically regurgitate these graphics over and over. People back then who made original custom stuff hated RM and rips then. The only differences between then and now is that the scales are drastically tipped over in favor of RTP.
I felt like there were more visionaries back then. And no, I'm not wearing rose tinted glasses at moment. It's my personal opinion.
Liking stuff from back then is always labelled as Rose tinted glasses. Or maybe I'm just grumpy and old now. Definitely old.
author=Ghost
I felt like there were more visionaries back then. And no, I'm not wearing rose tinted glasses at moment. It's my personal opinion.
Yeah, but literally every generation thinks that about the next generation. People in sports think there are no great athletes in their sport anymore, that they don't play the game the same way. Older generations think the next generation is much lazier/more stupid than they were, and their parents thought the same about them. The older generation always thinks they're superior to the new, in almost any field you ever care to look at. What you're experiencing is completely normal.
Idk I think history has its ups and downs. For instance I think RMN as a database and a website is better than anything made in the early 2000s. And I do think RMVX/ace is a much better program than all the other RMs. But I cannot find many enjoyable VX/XP games. Yes maybe there are one or two that have their own charm. But no game really has the soul and spark of ABL, Angels of Exodus, The Way, or TTHW (I played this in 2011 so come at me).
I'm being very picky when I mention those names. It's mainly due to their writing and interesting content. A lot of VX games I see play out to have a lot of polish (or want to) and the sort of writing that sounds really hopeful more than natural (see: a lot of other rm2k3 games). I guess that's how it happens when you have a huge influx of young people due to the way RPG Maker is actually being marketed to the english side. I'm hoping some of these kids grow up and actually forge a VX game with any trace of soul.
Makes sense to me objectively. If someone made a noir film now, and it turned out to be shit. It's probably because the film makers didn't have the mindset back in the 40s and 50s thus not fitting the tone and feel of what created the genre in the first place. Not saying RM quality belonged to people born in the 80s but I find it hard to just write it off as "nostalgia". Who knows, fucking adon will probably get nostalgic over legionwood while I get nostalgic over space funeral or something.
I'm being very picky when I mention those names. It's mainly due to their writing and interesting content. A lot of VX games I see play out to have a lot of polish (or want to) and the sort of writing that sounds really hopeful more than natural (see: a lot of other rm2k3 games). I guess that's how it happens when you have a huge influx of young people due to the way RPG Maker is actually being marketed to the english side. I'm hoping some of these kids grow up and actually forge a VX game with any trace of soul.
Makes sense to me objectively. If someone made a noir film now, and it turned out to be shit. It's probably because the film makers didn't have the mindset back in the 40s and 50s thus not fitting the tone and feel of what created the genre in the first place. Not saying RM quality belonged to people born in the 80s but I find it hard to just write it off as "nostalgia". Who knows, fucking adon will probably get nostalgic over legionwood while I get nostalgic over space funeral or something.
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