Rainbow Nightmare: Libra

An idea isn't worth much until it is implemented, and, following that logic, the rationale for including an idea is worth less (to prospective players, anyway) ?

I was talking about this just the other day, in fact I was considering making a blog almost identical to this about my own current project because the list of influences, at least on my part, are both numerous and often really tangential and odd.

My angle was more along the lines of:

a) Borrow/steal/take inspiration from everywhere/anywhere to create something rich and multi-layered rather than a tired rehash exactly what everyone would expect from the type of game you're making.
b) Look to things beyond of the genre of game you're making/beyond games entirely for sources to draw from and work into something special and unique.

What I wasn't sure about though, was whether those efforts end up being picked up by players at all or if the creative allusions we make to existing things are meaningful in any way to anyone other than ourselves and/or other developers who're used to thinking in that way about making games.

Also this is a cool thing is this vein:
http://fc05.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2010/220/2/e/Influence_Map_Meme_by_fox_orian.png
Example of completed one:
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_BTK3tnB_85k/THPo8Jg7MSI/AAAAAAAAA9M/yXssovBGVPE/s1600/influence_map_saskia.jpg

author=TFT
i think people are probably scared to really think about it or admit they take inspiration from others. i think this is a line between totally lifting and just taking certain ideas and expanding them or creating them in your own personal image.

While you're probably right, it's still super dumb for the simple reason that if you're making an rpg in rpgmaker you've already, knowingly or not, just lifted however much "jrpg heritage" (by which I mean your game is gonna be, to some degree, a "mod" of FF4, FF6, CT, DQ/DW whatever) and used it as the CORE OF YOUR GAME. To admit to borrowing from things for inspiration after that point is not exactly a huge leap to make. Short of making your own genre; you're already stealing.

author=TFT
to be honest with you, when it comes to writing or scenario development i will turn to either books or movies as the medium, and more technical and some visual aspects from video games.

Yeah games are are obviously the best place to look to for looking at effective ways of implementing technical and mechanic ideas but looking further afield and being able to bring something cool from outside of gaming into gaming a little is always a really fun thing to do.

it's interesting to view other peoples ideas, but, like i said people do not share because it would just be various bleach scenes which isn't very inspirational.

Example of completed one:
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_BTK3tnB_85k/THPo8Jg7MSI/AAAAAAAAA9M/yXssovBGVPE/s1600/influence_map_saskia.jpg

yeah, like, it's cool how it's just concepts and ideas plucked from the most obscure things. it's quite possible the reason for this is because rm design is less about artistic creation, and more about robotically copying a formula. who knows.

Which totally baffles me because the single most fun, engaging and interesting part of making games is the opportunity for, I dunno what to call it... Idea synthesis?

Taking bits and pieces of things, themes, notions, images, sounds, ideas. Changing them, twisting them around, making connections, seeing how it can fit together to create something greater than the sum of its parts. Without that there's literally nothing there.

But... I could probably hazard a pretty good guess as to why people might not go as far as they could. It probably firstly requires a wide range of things you've experienced to draw from and good memory of things you've seen/heard/read/etc and the ability to figure out why what was cool was cool and why what sucked was bad. Also a weird sense of conviction in your own taste and intuitions to guide you to interesting combinations of ideas plus a willingness to try things that might spectacularly miss the mark; to be a little hit-or-miss rather than sticking to a tried and tested formula that is both safe and boring. In short a lot of people probably don't want to nerd out so much about it.

author=Ciel
because people have no idea why they put x y and z into their 'games'. they aren't thinking about that or anything else because cognitive function is beyond them. it's time to add my poison status effect and make sure attack command damage variance is between 3-12

too deep for you maggot

how come people don't explain why they actually insert content into their games?

I never thought of explaining why I insert content and nobody has ever really asked me. If someone asks I will answer but like, I would be surprised if the majority of people care. I know I don't, and often times spotting a reference I know in a game if a fun moment.

Sometimes my ideas come from nothing, sometimes real life events, sometimes games, sometimes from magical dimensions only attainable though smoking. If they are well implemented it doesn't really matter and it's independent on your liking of a product with a single similar element.

I'll admit it's fun to make an image like you did, finding games that your game has commonality with. I might do this myself someday. It does provide a more detailed view of the game than raw features alone. However, I would argue that it doesn't have much bearing of whether or not they will like your game.

I think that I share this opinion:

author=NewBlack
What I wasn't sure about though, was whether those efforts end up being picked up by players at all or if the creative allusions we make to existing things are meaningful in any way to anyone other than ourselves and/or other developers who're used to thinking in that way about making games.

...what he said.

like, you will always see "ff materia system is in it because it's cool heh" and it's very very weird to hear this from people. it's like a robotic feature and they have absolutely no opinion or feelings on it. "i made a big sword because cloud does"

It seems to me like if a person uses a character with a big sword you'll always hear "lol your ripping off Cloud". Your game has underground slums? It's obviously Midgar. Oh, so you can equip skills that level up when you use them? I know Materia when I see it. Games are still compared to FF7 after all these years and any little similarity is called out as a rip off and unoriginal.

If you actually did a survey of every person who made a game with a big sword character and they truthfully admitted to basing it directly from Cloud, I could agree.

Sometimes it is a rip-off, yes. Sometimes they simply thought of the same thing without any changes. The best use of it would be to alter it and supplement using other aspects of your game. Kudos to he/she who does that.

it's interesting to view other peoples ideas, but, like i said people do not share because it would just be various bleach scenes which isn't very inspirational.

Do you really believe this? Or is it just a jab? and define the word "people". On a scale of 1 to 10, 10 being everyone, how many people is this?

because people have no idea why they put x y and z into their 'games'. they aren't thinking about that or anything else because cognitive function is beyond them. it's time to add my poison status effect and make sure attack command damage variance is between 3-12

Who are you asking these questions to?

You know, sometimes things just work. Like having a poison status effect and having some variance on attacks. Do you look at new cars and think "the designs are so uninspiring because they keep using windshields and round tires"? It doesn't always require insane thought and redesign of every element to make a good game. Do you expect everyone to make mind-bending cut-of-the-edge pushing-the-envelope games? There will always be a cesspool of crappy games, a murky pool of mediocre games, and a sparkling spring of awesomeness. With some other pools in between.

What your saying is coming of as a little elitist because in most cases the problem is that the person doesn't know any better, is not creative, or doesn't have the same mindset as you.

What your doing is very creative and cool and I like it but why do you have to look down upon people who are not doing the same thing? Is that your version of "tough education"? "Learn to do what I do, stupid" xD Nice blog, though.

author=Link_2112
You know, sometimes things just work. Like having a poison status effect and having some variance on attacks. Do you look at new cars and think "the designs are so uninspiring because they keep using windshields and round tires"?

lol

if your mind is still at a level where it perceives these garbage design elements as indispensable components of a game, to such a degree that you would be willing to compare them to windshields and wheels on a car, you're exactly the kind of person i was describing. zero capacity for critical thought

the issue wasn't whether it's possible to implement poison in a compelling way. (it's not possible for damage variance) that isn't even the discussion or the point. are we reading the same internet web page?? the point is that (99% of) people put in the same dumb bad awful garbage implementation of the same dumb bad awful garbage concept over and over because their brains don't work. if required i could rephrase this a couple dozen more times so everyone knows precisely what we are talking about here.

author=Ciel
the issue wasn't whether it's possible to implement poison in a compelling way. (it's not possible for damage variance) that isn't even the discussion or the point. are we reading the same internet web page?? the point is that (99% of) people put in the same dumb bad awful garbage implementation of the same dumb bad awful garbage concept over and over because their brains don't work. if required i could rephrase this a couple dozen more times so everyone knows precisely what we are talking about here.

My point wasn't about implementing poison and it was hardly the focus of my post. But you chose that one thing out of everything I said. You say it's not possible for variance to be good because for some reason you are opposed to the idea. That is your opinion and I don't imagine it's shared by all. Certainly not 99%.

I get your point and I say your numbers and reasons are BS.

99%? I doubt it.
Because their brains don't work. Not always the case.

I'm not arguing the point that there is a lot of crap and often time there isn't any meaningful inspiration, but you seem to fail at grasping the role of the entire spectrum of ability in people. The games are a reflection of the person and their ability.

You only see the value in high-end games made by people who know what they are doing cause they are pro. Yet you continue to condemn the new and in-experienced users and call them idiots because they don't know much about good game design. Maybe they are just copy pasting shit into their game because they don't know what works and want to find out. How many experienced users have awful first games? Plenty. Possibly 99% :o

If that user has any creative bones in their body, the subsequent games will be better and they will develop their skill. You are expecting lots of gems from the RM scene, where it's mostly designers in the early stages of their careers. The good games on this site come from experienced users, the great games are from experienced users with some sort of creative talent/or a team. The rest are just naive kids and people with limited capacity for game making skills. It's like any other hobby/profession/thing in life.

Like fuck, not everybody starts at level 75. That's all I'm trying to say.