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Please read this if you want AAV to continue and would be willing to help (and are good at mapping).

  • Neok
  • 12/15/2011 04:34 AM
For anyone just seeing this, refer to this blog-post for more information: http://rpgmaker.net/games/2994/blog/6124/

If you're not interested in hearing me yak some more about stupid things and just want to help me build this, skip to the second set of paragraphs below.

This part covers why I want to terminate the project
I'll be more specific about what's bugging me. To be honest, I can ignore the criticism on the battle system and the art style. It sucks that some people feel the way they do about it, but I can easily look past all of that.

Why I'm dis-illusioned now is because, though I expected some resistance to the idea of randomized dungeons, I did not expect it to this extent. As far as I can tell, everyone would prefer it to revert back to fixed dungeon maps. In other words, they just want another run-of-the-mill traditional rpg. They want monsters that give money and shops that act as the main source of items, instead of through dungeon exploration. They want fixed maps that you can go through once and never bother with again, not this randomized who-knows-what-you're-gonna-get kinda thing. We're back to the same RPG archetype that hasn't changed at all in decades. While that's not a bad thing (no need to fix something that's not broken, right?), it still dis-heartens me that everyone is apparently this resistant to changing things up. After all, I originally started RPG Maker to experiment and try things that big-name companies would never try for fear of having it not work out.

On that note, I've realized something. It's very easy to criticize FF13 for example, as being one of the dumbest ideas Squenix's put out in a long time. But now I think I can actually understand how something like that ended up happening. Because it seems like I've done the exact same thing with the AA series (and before any of you guys start flaming, I'm in no way saying the AA series is on the same level as the FF series.). Obviously I don't know if this is really true or not, but I really wouldn't be surprised if it is.

Don't get me wrong though, I'm not telling people that they should be liking rogue-likes or anything. Part of my intention in making this was specifically to see whether it would fly or not. Now that I know it doesn't, I'm abandoning the idea and moving on. But, since I envisioned AAV completely as a rogue-like, that means all the systems and gameplay is balanced behind the idea of randomized dungeons. It's certainly possible to switch over to a more traditional style, probably even easy. And even though it won't be the AAV I envisioned, I'm okay with that. However, like I said, I have no interest in doing what's already been done. That's definitely not the reason I started this project in the first place. That's why if it's just me, then I'll cut my losses and end it right here.


This part covers what I need to continue the project
So with that all said and done, I'll admit I didn't consider the possibility of someone else taking care of mapping for the project, since all of my projects have always been 100% solo runs (Thanks for that idea, Ness). If anyone wants to get on-board with me on this, I can provide the tools and resources necessary, and I'll leave the jurisdiction of all of that to you. I've always been prepared to handle putting together the battles and cutscenes, so I don't mind continuing with that. And I can easily re-tool everything to be traditional (aka have shops that sell equipment, enemies that drop money, etc.) But I definitely would need someone to help me with the mapping and putting together the dungeon.

So if you're interested in helping this come together, please leave a comment or PM me. As the only caveat, I'm personally not asking nor expecting much, but fans of this game apparently are, so please be prepared to weather any storms you might end up raising if you do something like what I did :).

Posts

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Archeia_Nessiah
Tear Harvester Nessiah
10288
I'm not the best or anything but I'd be willing to help 'v')/
Max McGee
My name is Legion: for we are many.
8101
Man, I think it'd be better as a roguelike.
author=Max McGee
Man, I think it'd be better as a roguelike.

That's because everything's better as a roguelike.
author=Max McGee
Man, I think it'd be better as a roguelike.


A lot of people seemed to disagree (though I guess it could just be because I did it really crappily).

Well if the mapper I take on decides to do something like that, I'll respect his or her decision and offer whatever advice I can.
The main issue is your game mechanics are not suited for a roguelike. On top of that I don't think the Alter AILA universe "deserves" a roguelike; after all, its focus was always the story and roguelikes don't really lend themselves to it. I'd rather you created another setting for your roguelike.

That all the FF's after FF7 were exercises in redefining the genre is a fact, but they still failed, especially 13.

Change is neither good nor bad in itself. Good change is good, bad change is bad. It's easy to say "you don't like my game because it's too innovative and you people are resistant to change", but it's simply not true.
author=DE
That all the FF's after FF7 were exercises in redefining the genre is a fact, but they still failed, especially 13.

Hey now, IX is solid, and XII is a flawed gem (had a LOT of good ideas, weird execution putting them all together) but that's another conversation.

But yeah, change isn't something that's intrinsically good. The only real reason why some people mention 'RPGs have been the same for decades' because they've been playing them for literal decades, and nothing else.

Not only are RPGers one of the only demographics to stick to one genre and only play RPGs (and so the genre is susceptible to 'getting old' quite quickly when it's the only god damn type of game you play and buy year in and year out), but the statement is entirely irrelevant to new people to the genre, which RPGers seem to forget as something that can uh, happen. The "NOTHING IS NEW" argument falls flat when a guy who's never played RPGs before tries Chrono Trigger or something. What does he have to compare it to?

Think about it that way.
Tau
Looking Back
2774
I'd be willing to help, but I couldn't do it all on my own, way too busy for that. Plus I kind of need a distraction right now having said goodbye to my best friend today as he left for work overseas.

Final Fantasy IX-XII are awesome games!
Willing to help here as well! I refuse to let this just disappear.
I just don't know how good can be a randomized dungeon. You still using rm2k3, ne? (not online very much so I can't really tell)
It's innate random dungeon making system is... Boresome. I really dislike it, especially considering your game's sideview! And I don't think there's any other way of doing randomized dungeons in 2k3 other than the random dungeon generator. However, except from using the Random Dungeon Generator, I'm perfectly happy with the game!
I mean, nice BS, graphics (including art style, I REALLY heart it), nice gameplay and thought in general. You can still randomize, say, monster encounters, item places, or even add doors that randomnly appear or dissappear when you enter a dungeon, or take you to a different place every time you enter a dungeon. I mean, as long as it's 100% self-planned (not the case if you're going random-dungeon-generator) it's awesome, 'cause you can actually put thought in the random designing instead of recurring to the RDG's limitations.
So I say, follow your heart. EXCEPT for using the RDG xD
Craze
RMN's supervillain, and enjoying it
7439
1) Edifice

2) MOG, while you are not being terrible, that is not really a great outlook. Beyond my personal opinion that the traditional RPG method that you call "intrinsically good" smells not-so-sweet (and I have not been playing RPGs very often or for very long), I'm pretty sure that trying new things and being innovative is kind of a great thing, especially for indie games.
Max McGee
My name is Legion: for we are many.
8101
I'm pretty sure that trying new things and being innovative is kind of a great thing, especially for indie games.


I agree with Craze even though he's a big mean jerk supervillain.
author=Craze
1) Edifice

2) MOG, while you are not being terrible, that is not really a great outlook. Beyond my personal opinion that the traditional RPG method that you call "intrinsically good" smells not-so-sweet (and I have not been playing RPGs very often or for very long), I'm pretty sure that trying new things and being innovative is kind of a great thing, especially for indie games.


You twisted my words a bit, bro. I am not saying that the traditional RPG method is 'intrisically good', I said change is not intrisically good. No, the two statements do not mean the same thing. Two, trying new things and innovation are good traits. However, the results of said change an innovation, like DE said above, are not good or bad concepts in themselves. Sometimes the result of change is shit. Sometimes it's genius. It's a gambit that human progress in general has to take, but the results of such aren't always good.
@DE Well I'm certainly not saying people should like it cause it's innovative or anything. The problem is that it's apparently actively detrimental to the game (when I actually seriously thought people WOULD like it, or at least not actively dislike it. Shows that I still have a long way to go with knowing what works). Considering everything was coded and designed around this theme, having to remove it pretty much means tossing out over 70% of my work there (it's a lot more work to automate this kind of stuff than you might think), as well as turning the code into an ugly mess since I'm having to just cut off no longer usable code and re-wire and salvage whatever I'm able to. That and doing so turns it back into a run-of-the-mill rpg like all the others (I've already established my stance on this).

@Darken Like looking into a mirror...

@JosephSeraph It's actually pre-made maps with randomized positions for the player and special events (like monsters, treasures, exit points, etc.). The built-in random dungeon builder isn't really that good, imo.

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