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Instant K.O.

  • Sviel
  • 05/22/2014 02:34 AM
  • 2655 views
Part I

Well, this is going to be short since it's a demo and the feedback is mainly meant for the developers. That means RAMPANT SPOILERS in part II.

tl;dr - Don't. This demo is not yet ready for public consumption. What works is fine, but isn't anything special. What doesn't work is infuriating. You should browse the screenshot section and await an updated demo instead, since you'll likely enjoy it once a few fixes are in.

The setting is shamelessly generic. Evil King Does Dark Things With Crystals and Heroes Arise to Save the World. That said, the intro cinematic is VERY PRETTY, but rather poorly placed as there hasn't been any sort of hook thrown. With such a run-of-the-mill setting, it's important to quickly establish something which makes the game worth playing over other such common fare.

The good news is that there is, in fact, something worth playing for. However, it isn't really explored in this demo.

The bad news is that one must go through hell to get it. Notably, there is at least one enemy with an instant K.O. chance on its normal attack. Initially, it did not cross my mind that anyone would ever do this, so I thought there must have been some terrible mistake when someone was fiddling with the core scripts for some reason...but no...do not be surprised to see your 750 hp Knight die to a single attack of 17 damage. And yes, you will be visiting the GAME OVER screen.

The worst bit is that there's no indication of what happened and no warning. Even if there was, though, there's naught that can be done about it save trying to escape.

There's also a strong feeling of heavy-handed, but absent-minded guidance. The player is forced to do things when it strains immersion to do so and not forced to do things when not doing them means an inevitable and horrible death. In the latter case, I mean that one can enter the dungeon without any skills...especially fatal if one is a mage, since...the mage starts with only a single passive...that regenerates mana that she can't possibly use...

Since when one does choose skills, there are no real choices to be made (this early), it is confusing as to why the characters aren't just started off with those skills. It would eliminate the slow death scenario and help boost the immersion, since the characters really should know something.

Once the kinks are worked out, combat is really not great. It's not challenging or interesting and there's rarely any choice to be made...just use the strongest available attack until the enemy dies. This is fine for a starter area, but even the boss follows the same pattern, with a few breaks for potions. There was what I think was an optional boss, but I opted against it since I spent so much time getting shafted...I'm rather glad to move on.

All in all, there's enough here that I'm confident saying that it could be interesting in the future. Perhaps there are some interesting parts in the 380mb download that could not be accessed. As is, there are dozens of other games that do similar things better. This one needs more time to cook, though it is aiming for something higher.


Part II


-Right after hitting new game, I'm asked a few configuration questions. This isn't bad, per se, but the first seconds are prime real estate for getting the player excited and involved. When possible, it's nice to see a such things wrapped into the game or at least after any opening scene. The first priority is making the player care about the game, then, they'll want to know how to play it.

-Especially when the controls are largely the same as every other game out there. The tut could have been a flash, a single image. To draw it out as such is ok since it was skippable, but I don't see why it needed to be right at the start. The player already used the 'Confirm' key to get to this point, and I doubt they'll be needing anything else until the game starts proper.

-Have you ever asked someone, 'When did you first start liking pancakes,' and they started their answer with 'Well, before I was born...?' There better be a really good reason that I'm learning about the world starting with literally before it began.

-Should be: "the Magus King ushered IN the age of prosperity" OR "the Magus King BROUGHT the age of prosperity to mankind."

-Ok, that explained the setting to me, but, it was completely disconnected from the game itself. I now know why the world sucks, but I don't know how that relates to what I'm about to be doing. I'm about to select a main character, and I imagine a far more relevant introduction will follow. Yes, it's nice to know the setting of the world, but, right now, I don't care much about the world as I have 0 invested into it and have yet to be wooed by any attempts at immersion. Moving that 'general setting' bit to some point after choosing the Main Character would be best.

-I have to choose a character based solely on a picture? Eh...a name, and perhaps an occupation or something would be nice. It's kind of a crapshoot as is.

-Also, while these pictures are NICE, they are in serious need of some sort of framing.

-I don't see why this info couldn't have been present on the former screen. Also, the arrows are still here, but the arrow keys no longer have a function.

-That's a SUPER VANILLA WHITE GUY too. I'm afraid to play him because he looks so bland. I mean, I've seen so many KNIGHTS in my day that...eh...

-I dislike VANILLA, NECROMANCY and CROSSBOWS, so I go with the PRIMAGUS. Helps that I like mages.

-Supporting char? Well fine, c'mon VANILLA.

-The SOLDIER says 'You never knowN what one could spew up from the Dark Maw <-No period. Should be "You never know what could be spewed from the Dark Maw." or "You never know what could spew out from the Dark Maw."

-The WALK SPEED is way too fast. Yes, it's nice to get from point A to B quicker, but if it looks like I'm going in fast-forward, then I'm constantly reminded that I'm playing a game rather than being immersed at all. There should be a running animation or some other trick to reducing walk times, like smaller maps.

-To be clear, the mapping seems fine, though. A normal WALK SPEED would not be annoying. Just keep in mind that you're crafting an experience here, thus presentation is important.

-I talk to NEZGEL. He complains that he can't tell day from night any longer due to the DARK END, but effectively does so twice, making it feel like exposition instead of speech. When I talk to him again, he says "Trees withered and river turned poisonous." Should be riverS.

-NEZGEL has a rotation of dialogue, which is nice, though I feel compelled to cycle through it all to make sure I've got all the useful bits out of him.

-In the ARMOR TUT, the bit on LIGHT HEADGEAR says 'quicken' rather than 'quickens.'

-Also, I'm not clear on what all this stuff is, so...the TUT seems a little premature. A combat TUT that goes over COOLDOWN (which I know) and WARMUP (which I don't) would be nice to have first.

-I wonder if I'm ever actually going to want to use armor that's not suited to the character.

-BORIS starts out with 2 items XIA can equip. The first is her starting item and the second is worse than her starting item?

-I talk to a SOLDIER who is PEELING HIS EYES. His lines should be "I need to keep my eyes peeled watching this pass. You never know when a dark beast will jump out from the Dark Maw ahead!"

-I see a DRUNKEN MAN who is tottering too heavily for me to take his potentially heavy line seriously.

-I find POTION LADY but I am STINGY so I leave.

-I try to go over to some people I see in an attempt to talk to everyone, but XIA says I should talk to everyone first. I'm not sure what her (my) deal is. At any rate, immersion takes another hit.

-RUDOLF says 'you seemS to have the aptitude...'

-His next box has a line break after 'before you and...' when there's plenty of space for the next word. Odd.

-RUDOLF suggests that I talk to everyone to arm myself with knowledge. That's fine, much better than FORCING me to talk to everyone before talking to him with a very thin, immersionless interruption.

-LUCION? Just when I thought he couldn't get any more VANILLA than a blonde-haired, blue-eyed knight of justice.

-Some textbox says 'You can now access to a mysterious place called Corridors of Origins.' Should be "You can now access a mysterious place called the Corridors of Origins."

-Also, the adjective 'mysterious' is more cheese than atmosphere, nowadays.

-I IGNORE the bit about the CORRIDORS and walk north because I want to see this DARK MAW. It bothers me that I still haven't been able to SAVE.

-The PORTALS TUT says 'a glowing magical glyphS...'

-Also, the plural of 'loot' is 'loot.'

-The TUT pics are cute, though.

-I get attacked by a GOBLIN sprite, but it turns out that it's actually a HORNET?!? Wah?

-Seems I have literally 0 options besides ATTACK.

-VANILLA gets ohkoed by the HORNET. It did 26 damage. I have 20x his hp, for some reason.

-WAIT. WHAT.

-I take 50 damage. Then I take 50 damage again...and I DIE. I had 435 HP. 435 - 50 - 50 =/= 0.

-That's GAME OVER, apparently. I feel SLIGHTED. I restart more because I want to play the game for longer than it took to dl than anything else.

-I wouldn't be nearly as BUMMED if I had been allowed to SAVE at some point.

-I GRUMP around the house telling everyone I meet about how this game was so mean to me as I get a SNACK and START OVER.

-It occurs to me that I never got that other intro, though, I was effectively introduced to the MAIN CHARACTER through NPC SPEECH, so, that's good. I rather liked it...now if only that unskippable GENERAL SETTING was placed at RUDOLF instead or some such.

-SOLDIER says 'Weak minded person would be instantly..." Person, should be PEOPLE.

-SIDEKICK tells me to talk to that OLD FELLOW...why not let them join then, since it seems so urgent just a second later. Also, why do they care so much if I talk to OLD PEOPLE?

-This time, I check the FLASHING ORB and realize that it is a SAVEPOINT. I've watched multiple TUTS so far and seen nothing on that, despite it being an uncommon shape.

-I RE-ENTER the MAW. New DUNGEON. This one has a FENCE near the entrance that blocks off all progress in one direction. There is a VINE which leads to a place that is higher? I TAKE it.

-I manage to fight off the enemies without any LETHAL MATHEMATICAL ERRORS. I get 7 exp, or 6.25% of what I need for the next level.

-So, XIA is a mage...but the only spell she has is a passive that regenerates her MP...which she can't use due to having no other spells.

-I encounter an ENEMY that XIA does 2 damage to, while it nearly ohkoes her. She's feeling EXTRA useless right now.

-I get a quest to kill some KOBOLD. The Fairy's speech is riddled with grammatical errors.

-I go down some STAIRS. Apparently, I cannot walk back up said STAIRS as they cease to exist after my descent? Great, now I'm stuck down here with one useless character and running low on POTIONS, which are the only way to live long enough to ATTACK these things to death.

-Welp...I'm stuck in a dungeon with no way to save or heal and no chance to beat the monsters due to my puzzling lack of skills. I don't know what exactly went wrong, here, but I'm pretty sure it's the developer's fault. Either this place wasn't meant to be entered so early (but was allowed?) or they're just really, really bad at combat design.

-Really, really, really, really, really, bad. I'm going to go with 'entering the maw was not an expected player choice and we did not account for it' instead, because I don't think anyone could be this far off on combat.

-I press 'A' like a good player and check out the Corridors of Origins.

-The CRYSTS system is pretty cool, though, it DEFINITELY should have been required before being able to enter the MAW. If the player has two choices, and one ends unquestionably in death, then they have only one real choice. Might as well go on and FORCE them rather than risk that experience I just had.

-Seriously.

-I'm not sure why I would ever use a turn to deal 2x damage on the next turn. I might as well just blast the thing twice in a row. Sure, MP costs might factor in, but I haven't seen what those are yet.

-For all the talk of CHOICE, there is only one possible way to spend all of my skill points. I suppose I could stock up on them, but, combat seems merciless so no thx.

-SHIELD BASH adds some status effect, though, I have no clue what it is.

-Doesn't matter, though, as there is only one way to spend all of VANILLA'S points too.

-I return to the MAW and get another LETHAL MATHEMATICAL ERROR. TWICE.

-I've been sitting here for over 2 hours and my official play time is 12.5 minutes. Some of that is because I'm taking these notes and what not, but on the whole, this is not acceptable.

-If I was playing this game for fun, rather than feedback, this is where I'd stop.

-EVERYTHING is weak to fire? Also, why I can't I use the healing spell outside of battle?

-I realize, since I've seen this script, that I can have one party member use all of the actions. As that's a non-standard RPG element, it should be in a TUT somewhere...perhaps instead of the super-standard stuff.

-Also, this music runs in like a 30 second loop? Or maybe it's just a 5 second segment repeated a bunch...then repeated more in another key...then loop. But w/e is going on, the person I am helping with MATH is threatening violence against my computer.

-Ok, so that CHIMERA. I wasn't ever all that threatened, nor did I have to do anything but STRONGEST ATTACK SPAM. It was, all in all, not an interesting fight at all.

-BLINDING light happens and some OLD MAN starts talking. It's not great. Nor is any of the rest of the dialogue thereafter. Perhaps the idea of it is ok, but the execution robs it of any dramatic value. It needs to be far more concise. The rampant grammar errors don't help, but I don't want to spend an extra 15 minutes correcting each of them. Perhaps, if you have a script, send it to me as one document...but parsing text boxes is eh.

-I notice I have 0 of the items needed to upgrade the shop. This is worrisome, as the initial shop is literally useless.

-With skills, combat does an about-face and becomes WAY too easy, unless there's some sort of LETHAL MATHEMATICAL ERROR.

-Speaking of that...LUCION takes 17 damage and loses 700+ HP. Perhaps this RED STINGER has death as a state it can inflict on normal attacks, in which case NO. DO NOT. EVER. Okay, to explain, instant death moves are not fun. Zero fun. 0. Sometimes, when they're linking to something that allows the player to predict and avoid them, they can have fun attached, but that fun would be present even if it was just a hard hit rather than an instant K.O.
On the other hand, having an instant K.O. that triggers at random that the player can't do anything about? There's NEVER a good reason to have that in a game. It's probably the fastest way to get your developing liscense revoked.
So, yeah...if that's not the case, I humbly apologize. If it is...well...I think we've covered that...

-The enemies don't really feel like they're helping me to progress. I fight them, blow resources, then get a pittance of exp. However, given that combat consists mainly of STRONGEST SKILL SPAM, the battles certainly aren't worthwhile for the fun of them.

-I apparently ran through the MAW again for no reason, since I could have just taken the SERPENT GATE. Anyway, after doing so, I'm told this is the END of the DEMO.

-MMK

-This is where I normally summarize everything, so...

-VANILLA must have had a huge threat rate, as enemies barely noticed XIA. A sort of passive tanking, which is fine, and a somewhat cool mechanic as it means I don't have to manually tank, which is rarely interesting.

-But, to summarize, the SHOP never gets upgraded. I never found the KOBOLD either, though I didn't explore all that much due to the rough start. So, in essence, 0 sidequests completed. The story doesn't really take off ever, as in, there's a setting (delivered rather sub-optimally), but from the start of the demo to the end, I don't learn much save for in the flash-back...meaning more setting (as it's in the past). This is an ok thing for a demo, except that the setting wasn't all that compelling. Evil King does dark things with crystals is just not going to get anyone excited these days. It would be much better to choose a main character first, see an intro specifically related to them (like that flashback), then see the general setting when RUDOLF fills you in on STUFF.

-I feel like this isn't a bad game at its core, but a few key elements/happenings soured me on it. I'll list them, for easy access.

-Failure to properly handle IMMERSION.
-IF you're going to restrict something, give an in-game reason. Also, make sure characters have reasons for what they say. It makes little sense to have the SIDEKICK shuffle the player off onto the OLD MAN then beg to join the party moments later. Also, be CONCISE.

-INSTANT DEATH percent chance on certain enemy attacks.
-I don't think I need to explain this again. But really, don't even try to defend it. Please. I rather want to see this project succeed, but this is a deal-breaker.

-Ability to enter the dungeon area without SKILLS, ensuring painful death.
-It's as simple as having the soldier not move aside until the player has spent skill points. Perhaps a combat test which is difficult or impossible to beat without skills but does not result in a GAME OVER. However it's done, that needs to not happen to anyone else.

Posts

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Such detailed review! Leave me speechless. Thank you. Especially, the part II. Very helpful!

I guess I am playing too much of Dark Souls, since the 1HKO enemies are something that I inspired from that game. To be fair, they are slow and have a few HP/DEF and can be blasted away with just a single spell or skill or even normal attack. So I thought it wouldn't be problematic unless RNG trolled.

About language and dialogues... they will be revised and fixed once the whole writing part is finished. For now, it's ridden with multiple cring-worthy errors, I admit.

And you've made so many good points there. I will try to adjust the game bearing what you said in mind.

Please give it a try again, when we update the demo :)

Thanks again :)

Cheers
I recall them taking 2+ hits to kill, but, even so, it's still a good idea to remove it. Even if it only pops up on RNG trolling, getting a Game Over due to that would be even more frustrating than if it were expected. Like, losing a fistfight to a worm frustrating.
author=Sviel
I recall them taking 2+ hits to kill, but, even so, it's still a good idea to remove it. Even if it only pops up on RNG trolling, getting a Game Over due to that would be even more frustrating than if it were expected. Like, losing a fistfight to a worm frustrating.


Nerf down the instant death rate with a new patch. And will make them super frail in next up date. Going to fix the other issues soon enough :)
shayoko
We do not condone harassing other members by PM.
515
im going to criticize this or i wont sleep well tonight

1.i dont believe in the word generic
most everything in this day of age is either a copy of or at least inspired by something else
it doesn't matter if its been done b4 or not,that's utterly irrelevant.
the ONLY thing that matters is,is THIS game good or not.
and so far to me it is

2.you say the games not ready for public consumption(i had to lol here)
between a awkward word and a someone hypocritical standpoint(releasing a review for a demo is this not as questionable as a demo not being ready to release?)
while i agree its short,that's what a demo is supposed to be. just a taste of whats to come so
the developer can see what others think about his/her work.
so its not about it being ready or not thru my 2 playthrus of it i did not come across any significant issues.

3.i dont see why a enemy with a 1 hit KO is a problem especially if you can run away.
logically you would do so until your strong enough to kill it in one turn....like tomberry from FF series among others.
//
did not like or agree with this review at all,it feel you fail to see the enjoyment value that this brings.

-battles are fun because they are simple

-while its true you cant choose all 3 paths at the start because 1 of them is higher then your starting lvl you still have choice.

-starting with all the ability is a extremely bad idea.i love how you say you were getting shafted then complain that the games not difficult...

-games plot is also a factor you cant judge it by battles alone,it seems cut scenes and interactions with some/most npcs are different based on which main character you picked

-you get to pick your characters! come on who isnt tired of being forced to play characters they don't want!?
//
nothing in this "review" is a actual problem,you just dislike the game for what it is,gl then.
I think it's just a matter of preferences and personal taste.

I love the games like Dark Souls or some old school dungeon crawlers (like Dark Spire, Etherian Odyssey, SMT) for their minimalist story telling style, simple and addictive gameplay, and the very difficult battles (more like harsh battles, once understand how to handle, they became easier).

But I do understand some people are can't really stand a game like that. When I was One-Hit KOed by a boss (or even some normal enemy which can riposte you) in Dark Souls, it hooked me up instantly and make me want to finish the game with even stronger determination, which on the other hand, made my brother rage quit forever.

So, I take both views with equal consideration and try to balance out the game. And to be fair, there are several area which I should've polished well. Like grammar and dialogues and some game-breaking bug like the portal one.

Cheers :)
author=shayoko
1.i dont believe in the word generic


Note, I said "shamelessly generic." Doing things that have been done before is fine, even expected, since like you said everything almost has to be a copy of something or at least inspired by it. In this case, though, it felt like a few extremely basic elements were directly copied without any of the nuance that made them interesting in their own right.

Now, that's not necessarily bad. The setting is more of a justification than anything, it seems. That being the case, though, it should take a background role rather than being the first thing the player sees. If the player is already hooked on the interesting elements of the world, like the starter area, then the generic setting will feel less stale.

The core issue is that, viewed in a vacuum, the setting is not interesting. It IS interesting when viewed through the lens of the rest of the game, but the setting is delivered BEFORE the player gets that lens.

author=shayoko
2.you say the games not ready for public consumption(i had to lol here)


The point of this review, and all of my other reviews, is primarily to give the developer feedback. I was browsing game pages and saw that this one specifically asked for feedback and looked like a decent game (which it was), so I decided to give it a go.

I don't deride the demo for being short, either. The length was, in fact, quite appropriate, though I did take issue with what did and did not transpire within that length.

author=shayoko
3.i dont see why a enemy with a 1 hit KO is a problem especially if you can run away.


If the enemy had a OHKO attack that was clearly marked as a OHKO attack, it would be a far smaller issue. As is, the player is not informed that the attack is a possibility and there isn't even a special animation that plays. It looks exactly as if the character took a negligible amount of damage and dropped dead anyway.

The Tonberry is a good example of how to do this well. It very clearly informs the player that its attack is a OHKO either by super high damage and/or the fact that it is a OHKO everytime that it happens. Also, it is not a common enemy in any FF game except during the times that it can be reasonably beaten or escaped from before it gets an attack off.

A common enemy where the correct response is to run away is an issue all its own, but I will concede that if the OHKO business was communicated well, it could be interesting in its own way.

author=shayoko
-battles are fun because they are simple


I can't tell you how to have fun, but I'm confident that I can spot a battle system that is too simplistic. Using the same attack every round is generally a good indicator. It may develop into something interesting in time, but it doesn't do so during the demo.

author=shayoko
-while its true you cant choose all 3 paths at the start because 1 of them is higher then your starting lvl you still have choice.


You have X skills to choose from and X points. No matter how you slice it, you WILL end up with the same skills at lvl 1 as everyone else who plays that character. Thus, at lvl 1, there is no real choice since all outcomes are the same.

author=shayoko
-starting with all the ability is a extremely bad idea.i love how you say you were getting shafted then complain that the games not difficult...


Not all of the abilities, just the ones that you were going to have at lvl 1 anyway. Or, if the goal is to get the player used to choosing skills early on, at least start them with their bread-and-butter skill.

Also, I wasn't getting shafted to the game being difficult. I was getting shafted due to poor communication on that OHKO attack and a design oversight that let the player put themselves into an unwinnable situation (in dungeon w/o skills).

author=shayoko
-games plot is also a factor you cant judge it by battles alone,it seems cut scenes and interactions with some/most npcs are different based on which main character you picked


I don't think I tried to judge it by battles alone?

author=shayoko
-you get to pick your characters! come on who isnt tired of being forced to play characters they don't want!?


I really liked being able to pick a character. I just think that something interesting should be presented up-front about each character to aid in making the choice rather than doing it by looks alone.

author=shayoko
nothing in this "review" is a actual problem,you just dislike the game for what it is,gl then.


I am truly uncertain as to how you could have reached this conclusion. I'm not infallible, but surely I was right about at least one thing?
shayoko
We do not condone harassing other members by PM.
515
You were correct that everyone would have the same ability's at the start,but that applys to all games.
sorry if what i said felt harsh,i just disagree with your side. as SomaelCK
said its just a matter of preference.

i give you props for writing a review on this site at all,those mods are mean and grammar nazis....just for missing one , or something they will deny a entire review even tho they can edit the problem themselves!

i did one review for Monster Hunter(i was so frustrated with the site i couldn't even feel a lack of content with its quality)
author=shayoko
You were correct that everyone would have the same ability's at the start,but that applys to all games.
sorry if what i said felt harsh,i just disagree with your side. as SomaelCK
said its just a matter of preference.

i give you props for writing a review on this site at all,those mods are mean and grammar nazis....just for missing one , or something they will deny a entire review even tho they can edit the problem themselves!

i did one review for Monster Hunter(i was so frustrated with the site i couldn't even feel a lack of content with its quality)


I don't mind everyone having the same abilities at the start, it just seemed strange to present it as a choice, especially since the player could fail to realize the importance of it (like me) and just waltz into the dungeon skill-less.

You might have been harsh, but, I also might have been harsh in the review. Thus, I don't really mind it. No hard feelings or anything.
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