Though I may not look it, I'm really untelligent.
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Out Of Control Cops - A Serious Problem In America

You know, to send a message to those cops who deliberately do the same thing over and over that shit won't be tolerated.

Which brings us back to the original problem scenario. If you destroy a cop's career and life, his fellows will see that and be less likely to, yes, do stupid shit, but also to place themselves in any potentially dangerous situation at all. If all your years of service can be undone in a single heated moment then why take the risk? Stick to the speeding tickets, domestic disputes and traffic directing. When a call comes in, drive a little slower to the scene. Just gotta make it to year 20 for the pension. 30 if I get a desk job.

I agree, there are inexcusable situations of blatant and intended misuse of power. And the coverups that go along with them speak volumes to an institutional problem, much like pianotm's post regarding the cop being fired for not resorting to force. Within the Law Enforcement system, there is a very serious cognitive cancer. So what are we to do about that?

Training Day

Honestly, any more time spent on this subject is a waste. Based on your replies, I have absolutely zero confidence that you'll ever 'get it'. It's like, if you were asked to do an essay about the values expressed in Disney's Sleeping Beauty, you would come back with "good vs evil" and that's it.

Otherwise, look at the community Alonzo lives in, not Alonzo himself.


This was a metaphor, you know.
Crucifixion (no, I'm not talking about Jesus... or nazis(?)) was considered the harshest form of punishment in it's time. The act was abhorrent, even by society's values back then, but still done anyway because it was an expression of how severe the crime was considered. Wishing crucifixion on someone would be like wishing death by fire or torture now.
Ergo, I was pointing out that all you're interested in is punishing the offending police officers, like how after 9/11, everyone wanted to punish those Palestinians who were dancing in the streets. Just a reactionary hankering to avenge some distant hurt of yours.

Good news, and more GOOD NEWS!

Great news!
But what happens after your military service completely ends? Do you see yourself signing up for another round/tour/contract, or will it be the civilian's life for you from here on out?


Jesus, people are accumulating a shitload of Achievements.
Are they going to stick after the event? It's going to turn the "Top 10 Achievers" list on it's head.


Nobody is on watch!!
The party is attacked by a Night Wolf Super Dire Hell Bear and eaten in their sleep. Command?

Out Of Control Cops - A Serious Problem In America

author=Max McGee
What are some movies you've seen that you would you say uncritically glamorized the "gangsta" life style?

pfft. When did I say uncritically? Just because there's come-uppance doesn't mean the life style isn't romanticized. Hong Kong has the guts to write the "bad" guys winning from time to time. Hollywood doesn't, but that didn't stop Scarface from making Tony Montana a hero in the Cuban community.
Anyhow, you wanted citations. Training Day and Menace II Society immediately come to mind. There are oodles more. Also, the entirety of modern rap culture.

author=Max McGee
Look, like in some cases what you're saying seems kind of relevant like the cases that were tragic and horrible ACCIDENTS. But then you have shit like those cops that kidnapped and beat a twelve year old girl and we're supposed to feel bad that the COURT OF PUBLIC OPINION has sentenced them?

The title of this thread is "out of control" cops, isn't it? You were the one who started it. Didn't you mean the inexcusable violent behavior by police we've been seeing across the US in general?
Or did you originally mean a handful of isolated cases of premeditated, sociopathic behavior that really isn't exclusive to the police at all? Or did it just become convenient to change the focus of discussion to something you could more capably work with?
See Liberty's reply to me for a list of what I thought we were talking about.

i'm not even going to go further into the movie thing because it's patently ridiculous

Yeah, it's kind of sad that some people actually hold this belief : That propaganda is history now, or at least that it doesn't work on them. The idea being that, because blatantly overt propaganda like that doled out during WW2 by both sides doesn't happen today, it simply doesn't exist anymore. Film is entertainment and has no influence on people's values.
It's not really a topic to delve into here, so whatever. Clouds are nice to live in.

the rest of your post has already been dismissed by all statistics ever.

I don't know what numbers you decided to hold high but not link to, but...

I think that this link is all the support that the theory of a systemic problem needs.

So just to clarify, if an officer uses violence and escalates an agitated situation, great, but if he chooses a humane approach and talk a situation down, he gets fired.

Even though we both agree, you're the only one putting me on the defensive. x_X;
Everyone else just wants crucifixions. Primitive justice, wheeee.

Out Of Control Cops - A Serious Problem In America

Quite frankly, they are out of hand. Completely. There's really no argument against the kind of behaviour they've been exhibiting - I agree with Max that it is sociopathic in nature and needs to be regulated a lot more, with harsher punishments for those who don't abide by the general rules of "Don't do harm to the citizenry you have sworn to protect."

Yes, I agree they're out of hand. But was this thread made to discuss what needs to be done, or would we rather content ourselves with witch hunts and finger pointing?

For every one of your cited cases of gross misconduct, there're probably 100,000 uncelebrated cases of a job well done. Which brings us to a conundrum. What happens when in one single minute of a police officer's 60,000 working hours, he makes a mistake so grave that the newspapers are beside themselves with delight? 99 times out of a 100, the court of public opinion has already sentenced him and anything less than termination of service, denial of pension, and prison sentencing is just fodder for knee jerk mob mentality. Is that the message we want to send to the police? That after 0-30 years of active duty risking your life, one single incident whipped up into a media furor can destroy your career, impoverish your family, and put you behind bars with the very people who would most love to have you there? Is that really the answer?
It should be painfully obvious how far this strategy would backfire.

If you really want cops to stop acting like a bunch of violent goons, you'll want to end this environment of dangerous gang warfare and police underfunding. Straighten society out. Make criminal activity less appealing/necessary. In turn, policing will become a respectable profession again.
And if, after gangs, drugs, prostitution, et al, are no longer rampant but the police still can't help themselves from oppressing and terrorizing every which way, then quintuple the Internal Affairs budget and root the bad fuckers out.

since i don't think any child watches a movie and says 'yeah...i want to grow up and do crimes!!'

author=Max McGee
man i watched like reservoir dogs and pulp fiction and came away from them like 'yeah...i want to grow up and do crimes!!!'

Are you guys joking? You're relating your own anecdotal point of views as middle class white kids with petty bourgeoisie societal beefs as counterargument? I'm not talking about our kind. I'm talking about black kids growing up in the ghetto, looking up to their older brothers who are constantly in trouble with the law, idolizing the few successful ones, and generally developing an unhealthy "us vs tha popo" attitude.

As glamorization of this culture in media goes, if you watch Chinese* cinema of the last ~10 years, you'll probably notice a common underlying theme : The primacy of the collective over the individual (usually expressed as self-sacrifice for the government). It's a moral that should be immediately noticeable by any of us because it flies in the face of our western individualist values.
The same idea is used in the media. Black gangstas are depicted with style and grace, lots of moolah and bling, and they always got they shit togetha, yo. It's a little more subtle than Triumph of the Wills, but you can't say it's not there.

*Chinese as in mainland Chinese films. Hong Kong still expresses autonomous views when they can.

Out Of Control Cops - A Serious Problem In America

You guys know that "out of control cops" are a symptom rather than a distinct problem, right?

Police officers are stressed out, and it's affecting their job. On one hand, there's this huge and still growing wealth discrepancy between the rich and the poor which creates a pool of people who feel like they have to turn to crime just to make ends meet. Worse yet, criminal culture in the US leans towards a survival-of-the-strongest mentality where aggression is how you prove that you're a better crook than the others. Worse still is the media glamorizing Thug Life over law and order. How many movies are there where a down-on-his-luck gangsta outsmarts/outfights/outdoes his rivals, and a bunch of nameless cops get killed along the way?

On another hand, police officers get slammed by the public at every chance. Stories on corruption or excessive force are a great way to polarize people and sell newspapers. That's the whole reason this (and the previous) stupid thread exists. There no flipside either. They don't get any breaks for heroism or saving the day. It's either bad news about cops behaving inappropriately, or simply news. "Suspect detained". "Hostages released". "Missing person found".

And from the last hand, the one that feeds them, our fearless government feels the need to militarize them so that Lockheed Martin and Raytheon can enjoy a +1% stock uptick for every fully automatic assault rifle, grenade launcher, and tank sold to a county police department.
Using them as revenue generators via speeding tickets doesn't help either. We've all had our run-ins with some damn speed trap. Doesn't do our opinions of them any good.

The stupider of you will take what I've said as a defense of the abhorrent behavior we've seen in the last few years. I'll remind you, this is a symptom of a greater problem. If you want to stop cops from acting like a mafia, break this stupid system that pits the poor vs the middle class vs the rich vs the government vs the cops vs etc. Re-industrialize the country, re-establish a strong middle class, restore society's self confidence, break the backs of international corporations, and destroy the influence of the financial sector. This "fuck tha police" mentality is regressive and will never solve anything.

Hartacon Tactics

Commercial? Phooey :(

2014 Indie Game Development Contest: $10,000 Grand Prize!

Shucks, I thought it was on again.

Can we talk about the Mike Brown/Eric Garner/etc situation?

author=Max McGee
Would you agree that selective prosecution and enforcement of arbitrarily criminalized marijuana (which is a total bullshit law in the first place because pot is less harmful than alcohol) is used as a tool of the establishment to keep generations of young black and brown men behind bars for most of their lives?

To be fair, that's not the only reason.