Description



Summoner of Sounds is designed to be a series of interactive community events where video game music will be celebrated by the means of craftsmanship and community interaction.

Community members with experience in music production will be dared to participate in challenges testing their ability to perform well as a versatile video game composer, while the game developers with other areas of expertise are encouraged to to analyze the challenges, and provide the composers with commentary, feedback and constructive criticism.


Table of contents:

  • 1. Event Outline

  • 2. Event Schedule

  • 3. Licensing Rights & Submission Guidelines

  • 4. RMN as a Platform. What do I have to gain?

  • 5. Post-Processing Submitted Material

  • 6. Role of the Composer - Becoming the Summoner of Sounds

  • 7. Role of Other Developers and the Audience - You are not NPCs!

  • 8. Picking Favorites!?

  • 9. RMN Music Pack 2 and Guardians of the Groove







Summoner of Sounds consists of a periodically recurring series of challenges presented to the composers to participate in and for the developers and audience to engage in throughout the year.

Participants aren't obligated to participate in every challenge, but the more challenges you participate in, the greater the reward.

Presented challenges will test the composers' abilities to perform well as versatile video game music producers in a changing environment. Each challenge will introduce a different set of rules and restrictions, and a new concept where the composers will have to find a way to express themselves in.

The challenges may restrict and determine the video game genre that will need to be composed for, the game world setting to be composed for, a specific game instance to be composed for, or a specific manner to be composed in.

While the challenges will present a number of restricted aspects, each challenge will offer choice of freedom and room to stretch around in some of them.

Summoner of Sounds will be running for several months in total and challenges will be issued roughly once every month, or on a similar pacing.

Each challenge of the series will run approximately over the course of one month and the deadline of each challenge will be stated as the challenge and its ruleset are announced.
























Any work submitted to this event will be disseminated under a creative commons license as publicly usable in any way the end-user wishes as long as they attribute the work to the artist in their credits and that they also do the same themselves with any derivative work based on the artist's.

End-users of this material, and any derivative material, will not, however, be able to legally make any money from anything containing these tracks without the artists' express permission.


All works submitted to the event have to be 100% original work of the participants and must contain no copyrighted material, either compositionally or in terms of sampled sounds. Submitted works must contain no arrangements of any material of a different author, and they can not lift motifs from anywhere else, except possibly from the participant's own works.

Submissions should contain as little audio quality loss as possible, WAV file format being heavily preferred.





The RPG Maker Network offers an extensive network of gamers and game developers, both hobbyists and professionals.

This event series is designed to help the composers of the game development community come together, challenge their know-how and showcase their creative efforts, and the rest of the community to come in contact with the composers.

This event series won't have a panel of judges, and there won't be hand-picked winners. Participants are encouraged to challenge themselves and work together towards solving the presented challenges.

During the course of the event series, the composers will be creating video game music in various forms and manners, and build themselves a diverse portfolio while doing so.

The rest of the community is encouraged to provide feedback and impressions on this material and to be in touch with the composers, possibly giving them ideas, or request something specific from within the given ruleset.

RMN will bring the participants visibility, and the yields of each challenge will be shared on RMN's social media during the course of the events.



Each composer has a completely optional step to sign up for post-processing their submitted material.

In the post-process, the composer will be in touch with the event organizer who will help them personally by offering them feedback on composition and mixing details and assist them by creating alternate, OGG file format versions of their tracks with a coded-in looping point, which will enable seamless looping of their songs in the RPG Maker VX and RPG Maker VX Ace engines.

Enabling looping for the songs requires them to be composed in looped structure, with recurring sections.






Summoner of Sounds as an event series will present a series of challenges that will test your abilities as a composer to express yourself in a wide variety of restricted environments. This will help in readying you to have the tools and confidence to perform well as a composer in a wide range of video game projects.

Each challenge will introduce a different scenario where you may need to compose music for different game genre, imply a different game setting through instrumentation, cultural, and musical genre references, or approach the the task by expressing yourself with a very specific perspective in mind.

Some of these scenarios may, and most likely will, require you to research and learn new ways of designing video game music, but they will also encourage you to test yourself, and express yourself in ways that you haven't before, and you will experience the joy of discovering new sides of your creative self.

Summoner of Sounds is an event series that will be running for several consecutive months. It may sound intimidating at first, but you can decide which challenges you want to participate in. However, the more challenges you undertake, the greater the rewards.

If you want to achieve the very best yields, then the series will also test your ability to perform under pressure as you'll need to be undertaking all the challenges.

It will test your ability to practice your trade under discipline, not only when you are motivated, and it will test your adaptability at the times when you'll have to find your creative freedom and inspiration while you still have to make your visions meet with a set of pre-existing rules.

Remember, you are not alone! This is a collaboration event. You may work alone if you wish, but you are allowed, and encouraged to collaborate with other members. Do you have the same Digital Audio Workstation as the other participant? You can work together! And if you feel like discussing how to approach any of the issued challenges with the other participants, then nothing stops you.

Building an extensive network of colleagues and other practitioners of your trade will also work greatly in your favor!

Will you be able to take on the challenge? Can you become the Summoner of Sounds, or even something more?

Introduce yourself at the Composer Introductions!





Video game composers wouldn't be composing music for video games if there were no video games, and video games with no music, or audio, would offer us only an experience with half of the things to sense, than what they do with audio, so let's agree that sound design is an integral part of game design.

Video game audio does not only offer us audio clues on game mechanics, but music activates large parts of our brain on fast rate and communicates us a great variety of information, which married with the visual material will bring the gaming experience to a whole new potency.

That being said, video game directors should not underestimate the importance of solid audio design, and advanced communication with the audio designers plays a major factor at what the end product will communicate to the consumer.

Music helps to communicate ideas which aren't visually present, it may also underline and empower the visual ideas present, or it may change the way we perceive the visual clues completely when the marriage of the visuals and the sound refers to a completely new impression than what either part of the combination would carry across alone.

Video game directors need to be able to communicate their vision to the sound designers and together with them, find a way to communicate this idea to the consumers.

While the Summoner of Sounds challenges will introduce composers to predetermined rulesets, the rest of the community may still engage in the process by discussing each challenge and the methods fit to completing the challenge.

Everyone can take the role of a critic. You don't need to be educated in music theory or terminology to be able to tell whether you find a musical piece fitting for a specific game genre, instance or setting. Communication matters, even if you don’t have the most optimal tools for it.

Express yourself with your own words and impressions. A composer will be glad to hear any of it. Tell the composer what their music communicates to you: feelings, impressions, visual images or atmosphere, for example. Does their track fit the description of the given ruleset?

Everyone may also post ideas of any themes they would like to hear. If the ruleset permits, a composer may very well decide to compose your idea.


While there isn't a panel of judges, or winners for the event, everyone is still encouraged to show appreciation for entries submitted to the event.

Simple feedback and commentary alone is welcome enough, but if you really like some track, give it a star to mark it as your favorite! You can give stars for multiple tracks if you wish. Stars play a part in event visibility and achievement mechanics.

To reward composers with stars post a reply to the event explaining which track, or tracks you want to give favorites for. Attaching a star image to the post helps the process.

Image code for the star:
[img][url]http://rpgmaker.net/media/images/events/sos/sosstar.png[/url][/img]







As of today, one of the biggest, if not the single biggest achievement of the composer community of rpgmaker.net still is the release of our RMN Music Pack!

It's a great quality pack of music that we can be proud of, and an achievement that we were able to put together with collaborative effort and all thanks to the network and community that RMN is.

Reception of the RMN Music Pack was overwhelmingly positive and it has been a good while since its release, so it is time we set our sights on the future, and to the release of its successor, the RMN Music Pack 2!

The journey for RMN Music Pack 2 begins with Summoner of Sounds.

Summoner of Sounds is designed to work as a count down and prepare us to bring RMN Music Pack 2 to a whole new level.

While Summoner of Sounds works also as the countdown for the RMN Music Pack 2, Summoner of Sounds will still be the greatest undertaking of the RMN composer community as of today and it will challenge everyone's creative abilities.

Summoner of Sounds will be creating composers a portfolio, but it will also be creating the community a whole lot of great video game music!

If you like what the composers of the community do and you want to show your support to them, you can be directly in contact with them, but if you want to show your support to the community as a whole and help us arrange events such as the RMN Music Pack, Summoner of Sounds and the RMN Music Pack 2, you can now become Guardian of The Groove and donate to the cause!

Every penny counts and the money will be used first and foremost to have artwork to go with the music and then to offer rewards for participating members. Any extra funds to the cause will be spent on future RMN Music events.

To get the Guardian of the Groove achievement you have to PM Happy after the transaction goes through, so that he knows to apply the benefits to your RMN account.

Thank you everyone! Let's do our best!

Illustrations: カラカモ @ twitter / 烏鴨 @ pixiv
Event concept design, visual design, direction and supervision: Happy @ RMN / Matias Heimlander @ tumblr

Details

  • 05/01/2015 06:57 PM
  • 07/01/2016 11:59 PM
  • 3
  • Happy

Achievements

Registration

You must be logged in to sign up for Summoner of Sounds.

Teams Members Entry
Team Happy!
My Composing Stick is Ready
Team Meat
Sum On Her Off Sow And
Team Failed Harmony
Team Where Am I?
Team The Team
Out of practice, so let's get back in practice!
"Insert Team Name Here"
I'll Do My Best...
Chaos Harmony
Symphony Of Enthrea
Super Merengue Bros.
The Spoony Bard
Music for humanity
Bring back the dinosaurs
How do I Music?
Team Drass
Ark of the Arts
Team Koi
To the Beat of a Different Drummer
Team Toni!
Dysergy
Jingle Jangle Jingle
Ylmir
Azhthar
Team Amazing Hotdog
Firah
Team Last Minute Production
Ogarth Munchies
The One-Ghost Gaggle
Team Giznads
Fungus Happy
Maat Wants His Cap Back
Misoundthropy
Rastapopoulos
Sweaty Angle~~~ <3
OneByOne
Toms Introduction Team!
Team Midi
Legion of One
FoxAudio Creations (AKA Team Oh God Who Let the Furry In Here)
Happy Rainbow Panda Bears
Team Curry
Acidbath
Jar Studios
Aersia Sound Team
Plastic, Meat, Smoke, Metal, and Sugar
Team Megollyen
Niyane's Team
Team Unhappy!
The Sword Of The Crest Heart And The Bird That Learnt That Hope Would End One Day
Team Neutral!
Team Probably Not Appearing In This Event
Scion Genesis
Without Creativity
Team Random
Team Cheese
JStewartMusic
No Excuses!
Team currently busy but what the hell
Team Yup
Uncanny Warriors
Team Jawns AKA Boring Team Name
A Team of One
The Singularity
The Duke's Jukebox
Sound Master
Entry Status Key
  • - Pending
  • - Validating
  • - Accepted
  • - Rejected

Posts

Silly me, I didn't realize I needed to post my pieces to participate, so these are all late:

The Ninth Symphony - Dance Of Emptiness

Rock Off Against The Void - Yvadros

Both were made on MuseScore, using the Timbres of Heaven soundfont.
Aw hell, I completely misread the due date as 6/27. And here I thought I was actually early. I blame Stellaris and me not checking up on the thread for a month. My bad. Oh well, to pay for my ignorance, I'm making this track completely royalty-free for commercial use, if this sort of thing is even worth it.

Desperate Battle for Justice

I only used 5 instruments, because I don't really know what else to add. I was working on length this time around, since that was the main critique for my previous tracks. Hopefully, it’s not too repetitive, even though it uses pretty much the same melody throughout. This track was actually really close to getting scrapped. It just didn’t feel right whenever I played it, but then I raised the key by a little bit and it suddenly sounded great. Key really makes a key difference sometimes.

Thanks for all the stars and critiques on my previous track. I may not be allowed to get stars or whatever for this one, but I'd still like some critiques on it.
Happy
Devil's in the details
5367
Hey everyone! If you still have pieces that are almost complete, but weren't submitted in time you can still send them in! I'll try to post some concluding thoughts on the event soon and get back to everyone, but until then I'll extend the final deadline until 1st of July.
Whoa, I'm almost late again! Thanks for the extension.

Desperate Battle for Justice

The track I just submitted is a tad different from the one in my Soundcloud. I EQ'd it a little and replaced the snare and the bass drums to add some punch. The last one was super flat(and not the delicious kind). That's what I get for using the default instruments, I guess. I know it still sounds pretty meh, but it's what I could do at the last minute. Since I had to rely solely on my IEMs, it might sound off-balance.

But please enjoy and tell me how terrible it sounds.
*checks everyday for an announcement about RMN Music Pack 2*

:p

And sorry for not contributing to the last challenge, I just couldn't make music at this time of the year, because of my exams.
Happy
Devil's in the details
5367
Oh hey! I am currently in process of concluding Summoner of Sounds myself. Listening to the last submissions and giving them feedback, and counting the statistics for achievements.

RMN Music Pack 2 will start later this month or in beginning of August. It was supposed to start ASAP, but I have some other deadlines very soon in August, so I have been worried they'll affect my judging abilities.

Rmn Music Pack 2 will allow submitting works that have been starter prior to the event, though, as long as they haven't been made public before. So basically you can start on ideas already, keeping in mind the primary application for the music of the pack is the games of RPG genre and that all works will be distributed for free for everyone to use in their non-commercial and commercial projects by crediting the artist.
I'm not sure if anyone is even looking in this thread anymore but I guess I'll post my feedback nevertheless just in case.

@pianotm
Surviving the Attack:
This really has a boss vibe, especially because of the trumpet. I'm not a fan of MIDI sounds to be honest but you made it work! I could imagine this in an older FF game.

@TungerManU

Almost There:
I love the guitar in this one. The bends are awesome! The only criticism I have is that it's a little too repetitive. Some variation wouldn't hurt. Here, have a star

Bye:
Just as good as the last one. I could hear what you meant when writing that you really enjoyed composing these pieces ^^ The piano is a little loud and the sax a little too quiet but the rest sounds awesome



@Niyane
The bells give this piece an end boss vibe. I should have used some too now that I think about it. Alternating the volume of the drum hits would have improved this track in my opinion.


@Beaker
Battle 1+2:
These are too calm for my tastes to be battle themes. This would rather fit to one of those battlefield overviews in TRPG. They are also reall similar to each other. But they are still pretty nice composition wise.

Battlefield Strategy:
This one does fit pretty well to those TRPG battle overviews as well, just as you intended. I'm personally not a fan of pieces that stay in the background and are therefore less memorable but I'm pretty sure that most people would like this.


@Shade Hunter
Enemy Encounter:
I could see this in a fantasy JRPGs like White Night Chronicles. Especially the Xylophone/Marimba (not sure which one you used) is great. The piano sounds a little too lifeless though in my opinion. Mostly because every key hit has the same volume. If you don't have a MIDI cable or a keyboard/E-piano to record it yourself you could always randomize the velocities and then make adjustments.


@ResidentEcruteak
This already has a nice boss feeling. Some notes sound off though. I would advice to check if any notes played at the same time by different instruments produce weird dissonances and if they are always in the same key.


@Cats777
The melody is really cool! Reminds me of Megaman for some reason. The synth that's playing the constant 16th notes (?) adds a lot of consistence to this track. As a tip: you could have added different melody instruments other than the E-Guitar to get some more variety.


I'm surprised at how many people made MIDI sounding pieces for this chapter. Or maybe I hust never noticed it.
Happy
Devil's in the details
5367
@TungerManU:


Look Up: I must've missed this one before! Very pleasing atmosphere. Definitely communicates the sense of hope of and sympathy. It's actually spot on there, and a great take on the theme of the chapter because it manages to nail down a specific feeling.

I'd say the mix could be improved a bit, though. For the first 30 seconds the balance between the harp sounds like it isn't establishing atmosphere as much as it could. Right now the strings feel like they overbear the acoustic qualities of the harp and that they're on somehow different acoustic space than the harp. I think it could work better if the harp sound was "on top of the strings", so to say. So I'd probably make the harp louder in comparison and make it dominate the soundscape and have the strings just support it from underneath.

When the flute takes the leading role I'd make sure it is the most audible element and adjust the harp accordingly from there on. Same when the violin takes the melody: At that point it should be the most audible element.

I like the atmosphere and melody! Mix needs improvement! Good job, however.

Almost there: Oh! First I was trying to match the mood of the song to the title and it felt really off for me. Then I just focused to listening to it and wondering how it makes me feel. I actually think it sounds more like "We've finally done it!" It really sounds like an ending credits theme for an anime show or something like that. Though it could also a fit a scenario where you see the grand plan of the characters unfoil and everyone's trying to carry out their assigned roles.

It's a cool theme and has interesting sound to it, in a positive way, as in it doesn't sound too generic.

Mix feedback: Again I think the leading voice could have more clarity and rule the volume of other instruments. I'd just first simply raise the volume of the leadd guitar and see how it affects the mix. Some elements may turn out to be too quiet in comparison, like some percussive elements for example, but I think it'd fix the balance between the bass layers and the lead, because at the moment the basses sound too loud. But I'd begin the adjusting by raising the lead, because it's the element that stands to out more.


Bye:Ah very cool melody. Somehow sounds pretty retro to me. Composition-wise this seems solid and I like the simple but effective percussion. I'd imagine if I was listening to this as a battle theme it could get a bit old after several repetitions. Maybe more so with the long intro. The melody later on is lively enough to keep your interest in it several times.

What comes to the mix, the leading tone seems too quiet again. I'd bring it up a lot first and see what needs adjusting afterwards. The bass sounds too loud during the intro, while I think the strings could be brought up in comparison. When the melody starts the piano sounds too loud on the low range. The volumes are pleasing for each instrument, it just feels they aren't dynamically layered, or as effective as possible. Just try having the leading instrument and elements being the focal points with whatever is playing!


@pianotm:

Surviving the Attack: Sounds pretty tense! Those synths coming in at the beginning remind me a lot of FF8 boss theme. (A good thing.) I can easily see this working as a RPG battle theme for some high tension boss battle.

Better mix would do wonders for the atmosphere, though. The bass instruments have some muddiness to them. It's hard to pinpoint the exact issues, but it's like the bass is resonating on a bit unpleasant frequencies and lacking somewhere on its EQ curve. How would it sound if you brought up it's 2-7khz range, for example? The kick drum sound also drowns there a bit.

The synth does sound good. The hihat sounds a bit too overbearing, and could be more subtle with perhaps a bit more reverb and a bit less volume. The instrument at 0:26 - 0:33 could spread wider to establish more space, and the higher tone lead around 0:34 - 0:40 could use more volume presence and be placed more towards the center. Right now it sounds like "a sound on the right" and not so much as "element that expands the atmosphere to certain direction." The bass does sound relatively loud at these parts, or at least the leading instruments are too quiet in comparison.

I like the chords in the end! I can easily imagine what the new section starting from there could sound like with some more organ goodness!


Overcoming the Demon:
Nice combination of somber and mysterious. This could work as a dungeon theme, too. The song is pretty hard on ears though because of the instruments' qualities. The vibraphone type instrument starting the song has a lot of decay and with such a high tempo the overlapping effect of the sound becomes a bit much. The hihat quality could be improved too, by spreading it to a bit wider space by giving it more reverb. The lead voices could stand out more in general right now the lower tones are dominating the volume a bit much.

It's a good idea of a song, but I think the mix needs more work here to make the song work properly.



@Fulminis-ictus:


The Ninth Symphony Concerto in G Minor: Wow, that was lenghty. There was many nice melodies. In general it felt pretty epic and like a journey or a tale of adventures of someone in a medieval fantasy land. The brass sections often reminded me of FF9 sountrack, as well as the lower mid range winds. The instrumentation was generally really nice, even though really simple. The first minute felt a bit chore to listen to, but from there on I was entertained and felt like I was listening to ending credits music.

The beginning also felt too quiet in comparison to the rest, plus the strings felt like they faded too soon without enough decay or presence of any acoustics.

This was cool though. It felt kind of like a soundscape concept for a soundtrack where you could expand upon. Not sure of the actual intended purpose.


Epic: Epic indeed! It does sound like beginning of the end. The melody doesn't sound particularly unique or original to me, but I like the harmony with the choirs. I feel there could be even more string ambiance to enhance the whole mood from the very beginning. The detached strings joining in soon could have even more volume to bring some more oomph. Often I feel the melody layer could dominate the volumes more to have bigger impact on the atmosphere. Right now it feels most of the elements are really far in the soundscape and the area near to the listener feels pretty empty. Bit less reverb on some layers could help this.



@ Calicer & Lucent_Aurora:

Battle Hope: Really lively and nice melody. Beautiful instrument choices! The xylophone creates a really nice mood! The descending notes at 0:58 are really nice and the flute around 1:08 especially too. The soundscape sounds like it could use some more meat on the low end. The bass range is really quiet and doesn't create as effective ambiance as it could! The soundscape sounds a bit small, so to say.

The melodies are really nice, however.

vs_Clavinet: Interesting! Not sure what this makes me think? Sounds like it's from a rather old RPG or adventure game from some intense action sequence. Here's the lead voice feels like it's drowning under the additional elements here and there. The expressiveness is very inspiring and great, though. Really liking the places this goes. Keep it up! You're really good at carrying the melody, while the general volume balance sounds like it could use improvements.

vs_Clarinet_r7q6UcG This sounds pretty decisive. The rhythm and mood are both very good, but The low range volume feels a bit lacking again! Some of the melody instruments could have less reverb and have some harmony instruments with more reverb backing them by creating them some solid ambiance base to dance on.
Right now if I raise the volume for the ambiance to be on pleasing level the melody instruments sound too loud, and if I adjust the volume for the melody instruments to sound good then the ambiance is too distant.

I do like the melodies though! Keep it up!


@Vanillatogether & ResidentEcruteak:


SOS Battle Theme Waves of enemy hordes: This sounds like it has a lot of inspiration going behind it. There are some really cool instrument choices and ideas and they create a really cool futuristic fantasy vibe. I think that all the instrument progression and notes don't contribute to the overall coherency as well as they could.

The beginning is really cool. Nice instrument choices and I like the bass rhythm and how the synth at 0:10 comes in. The guitar starts sounding off around 0:11 though, and it sounds like it could work better by playing some more tonality supporting chords. Same with the slap bass part coming after it.

The progression starting at 0:49 is really nice. I really like the vibe and idea going here. The slap bass plays a few odd notes here and there. The flute synth afterwards works really well too, though the synth at right sounds a bit off soon after that part again.

You have some really cool ideas though! I am looking forward to listening more of your stuff! This somehow really reminded me of some old j-rpg soundscapes!


@Shade_Hunter:



Formidable Foe: Wow! This is really cool! So urban sounds! This also seems a very refreshing take from you! A bit different from the usual approach you've had on some of your recent stuff. There's still some of that high frequency glitter here and there, but I'm really digging some of the shredding sounds here. The rhythm change works really well as a slight departure before returning to the loop here, too. Generally I am liking this a lot, though I hope the cool main lead voice synth had a bit more volume and presence over the rest of the soundscape. The dial type sound starting at 0:05, that is.

I like the distort on the the higher tone percussive elements as well. I'd definitely use this in a futuristic or modern project myself. This is great! Some highlights: 1:03, 1:20, 1:38, 1:45 and just the melody base at 0:05 is really cool to begin with.




Rest coming in a bit. Achievements too. And Music Pack 2 event launch. Sorry for delays!
Thank you for your kind words Happy, that was really nice to hear ^^ Thanks Fulminis-ictus for your feedback also.
pianotm
The TM is for Totally Magical.
32388
Thank you for the feedback, Happy!
What is the status of Chapter X ? Ongoing, completed?
I'm looking for medieval battle tracks to fit a turn based strategy game. And I think Chapter X is a good place to look.
author=Irog
What is the status of Chapter X ? Ongoing, completed?
I'm looking for medieval battle tracks to fit a turn based strategy game. And I think Chapter X is a good place to look.


Yeah, it's over. I've sent you a pm though.
It looks like I'm not the only one checking from time to time :p

Out of curiosity, I checked, and it looks like Happy hasn't been active on RMN for three months (no recent posts)...
I have no idea where happy went...
pianotm
The TM is for Totally Magical.
32388
Wherever he his, I hope he's Happy.

>.>
<.<

I'll show myself out...
NeverSilent
Got any Dexreth amulets?
6299
So I have a question/suggestion for the site administration and the people who participated in this event. It seems Happy has vanished, and it's been hard for him to do the huge amount of management work for this event for a while now anyway. Would it make anyone feel better if I volunteered to look through this entire event (as well as Aim for the Stars) in his stead and put together a list of who qualifies for which achievement at this point?

Even though I can't give in-depth feedback on the submissions themselves the way Happy could have, at least this way we could bring this event to a sense of closure and reward the participants a little. And maybe it would take some of the pressure off of Happy if he didn't have to take care of the tedious statistics stuff himself, too.

Is this something anybody would care about?
I would be okay with that. If you feel this is something you can take on, PM me a list of the achievement getters and I can dole them out.