Ends 04/01/2012 12:00 AM

Judges
halibabica

It's finally here! The much-anticipated third installment of the RMN community series! And this time, halibabica's in charge!

WHAT IS THIS

Super RMN Bros. is a community collaborative game where everyone uses the Super Mario Bros. X engine to create Mario levels! The stages are made and submitted by members of RMN, then compiled into one big game at the end of the event. Huzzah!

WHAT YOU NEED TO PARTICIPATE

Super Mario Bros. X v1.3, available at the Download link. This is the latest version of SMBX. It has everything you need to get started from the player, the editor, and a sample world.

You can also download the SMBX Graphics Pack by Red Yoshi here. It has a ton of Mario Brothers graphics that you can use in your level with a simple copy+paste!

JUST WHAT IS SUPER MARIO BROTHERS X?

Super Mario Bros X is a freeware game engine by Redigit geared towards having the gameplay features and physics of Mario 3 and Super Mario World while adding a ton of cool features and not having to deal with the restrictions of the old (S)NES hardware. If you want to see what SMBX can do, check out the games here on RMN or watch these videos showcasing SMBX's capabilities!

Games are distributed as a world with levels package they can add to Super Mario Bros X and play from the main game. There is no way to make a self contained game so all players will need to download SMBX in order to even play the game. The game does come with a large set of graphics and sounds like the RPG Maker RTPs so everybody at least has a large number of platformer resources to work with (and it'll keep the download of the actual game itself small).

You can view the RMN engine page for SMBX here.

HELP!

The editor can be tricky to use, especially for beginners. You can ask questions on our SMBX Help thread on our forums! If you have any questions go there for some tips or helpful links.

We also have a tutorials section on RMN for SMBX.

SUBMISSION RULES

  • Levels must be made in SMBX v1.3 .
  • I don't know if you've ever made Mario levels before. There are dozens of hacks and roms out there, so it's possible you've played custom levels or created your own. However, this project is being made specifically in the SMBX engine, so if you want to contribute, you have to use that. You can download it here.

  • Levels must be made FOR THIS PROJECT
  • So, you've used SMBX before, huh? Hey, you can just submit levels you already made! Right? WRONG. If you didn't make the level specifically for RMN Bros. 3, you're not allowed to submit it. Do not just zip up the levels of your personal project and dump them in here (Davenport, I'm looking at you). Everyone has to start from scratch. And if I catch you trying to submit a pre-made level, ooh, I'll, I'LL- ...deny it. Simple as that, really.

  • Levels must end in ONE SMB3 STAR
  • Starman doesn't work in SMBX like it does in the Mario games of yore. Each one you collect instead adds to your star count. There are two kinds of stars in the engine: SMB3 stars and SMW stars. The latter adds to your star count, but doesn't end the level. The former concludes the stage when collected. Each level must have ONE and ONLY ONE level-ending star. However, you can have any number of SMW stars (covered later).

  • There is no limit to the number of levels you can submit.
  • Beyond these four rules, the sky's just about the limit. There are a few other criteria your levels must meet for them to be accepted, but they're nothing huge, and are as follows.

LEVEL CRITERIA

  1. Checkpoints
  2. Theoretically, every level should have one of these. It's the SMW checkpoint object that lets you continue from partway through the level. Unless your level is extremely short, it should have one. If it can't have one for specific reasons (auto-scrolling, switch block/character shenanigans, etc.), it's recommended you not make the stage too long. Also, SMBX can only support one checkpoint per level, so placing multiples doesn't work.

  3. Power-Ups
  4. Your stage should have a good balance of items that are helpful to the player. ? Blocks should never contain lone Mushrooms; don't be afraid to give the player a Fire Flower or Leaf. On the other hand, exceptional items like the Tanooki and Hammer Suits should not be easily obtained. Use discretion with where you place items. One at the start and one after the checkpoint would be the least you could do. Also, pick items that the player can put to good use. A Fire Flower in an area with monsters immune to fire does the player no good; maybe an Ice Flower or Yoshi might be better instead. On the subject of Yoshi, he's a power-up like any other, and no restrictions are being placed on his use. Similarly, all styles of Kuribo's Shoe are allowed. Just remember, these things are very helpful, so choose carefully where you make them available.

  5. Banned Objects
  6. Your level must not contain any of the following items. If it does, you will be required to remove them.

    • SMB2 Crystal Ball, SMB3 Roulette, SMB3 ? Ball, SMW Keyhole, SMW Exit Gate
    • All banned for the same reason; they end the level. All levels must end with an SMB3 Star. No other exit type is allowed.

    • SMW Bowser Statue
    • Banned due to its glitchy hit box. You can still be hit by its fireballs while standing on top of it. Use the SMB3 Bowser Statue instead!

    • SMW Dry Bones
    • Banned for its stupid hit box. You may place Dry Bones in your level, but all Dry Bones in the project will use the SMB3 sprites instead.

  7. Unbanned Objects
  8. These are objects that were disallowed in the past. I'm permitting them for the reasons stated.

    • SMB3 Lakitu
    • This was banned in RMN Bros. 2 because it behaves erratically. You may use them in your levels, but be very careful when you do. They aren't impossible to deal with, but they can make situations extremely difficult. You'll definitely hear from me if it's a problem.

    • SMW Star
    • These were formerly banned because they didn't end the level. You may now use them as bonus secret stars in your stages. The player can collect them on alternate paths, but must be able to return to the rest of the level after grabbing them. More on these later.

  9. Different Characters
  10. This is, first and foremost, a Mario game. Mario will be the only character available to play as, but that doesn't mean you can't use the other characters. If you want to make a stage involving Luigi, Toad, Peach, and/or Link, you must specify so. Include the appropriate character block at the start. If you don't, I'll assume the stage was meant to be played as Mario. You don't have to switch back to Mario at the end of the stage, though. I will manage character swapping in the hub area.

  11. Player 2 Start
  12. SMBX has the option to play with a friend by sharing a keyboard and crowding around a monitor. There is no way to disallow a multiplayer game, so be sure to include both P1 and P2's start positions in your levels. HOWEVER, this is all you need to do to accommodate the second player. Making a balanced one-player game is difficult enough, so don't sweat it if something doesn't quite work for multi-mode. I'm not checking two player compatibility; you don't have to either.

  13. Secret Stars
  14. Each stage must have only one SMB3 level-ending star, but you can have (almost) as many SMW stars you want. Before you go throwing secret stars everywhere, though, you should understand how they work. The most important thing to know is that you can only have one star per section of a level. That's not my rule; that's a quirk of SMBX. It can only register one star per stage section, as it flags all stars in that section as 'collected' if one of them is found. Because this is the case, any secret stars you place must be in different sections than the star that ends the level. Incidentally, this also means the most stars any level can have is 21. Don't worry; if you mess it up, I'll tell you about it!

  15. Water Must be SWIMMABLE

    You can set waterfalls to either be swimmable or not, but ordinary water must always be. Don't fill your pits with water if they're supposed to be bottomless.

  16. Misc. Stuff
    • Pipes, Doors, and Carry Items
    • By default, all entrances in SMBX are set to disallow the player from carrying an item with them through the portal. If your level has objects the player may want to bring with them, be sure to set your entrances properly.

    • One-Tile Passages
    • Avoid making paths that are only one tile high. If Mario stands up in one, he zips through the wall in the opposite direction he's facing. In some places, this isn't a problem, but in others it can break the game. Spare my telling you to fix it and avoid creating such circumstances.

    • Ceilings
    • If you're making a water level or Mario is able to fly, you may want to block the area off the top of the screen so the player can't soar over everything. In aquatic stages, one could swim past everything from up there, so it's extremely important to include (same goes for underwater pits, actually). Of helpful note: one block placed above or below a level's boundary will create an impassable wall.

STORY AND TUTORIALS

Nothing too complicated here. Mario, Luigi, Toad, Peach, and Link have fallen into RMN's Pit of Challenges, where they must collect the stars from our levels if they ever hope to escape. The main villain is not Bowser, Wart, Kamek, Aristocrab, or anyone seen yet in the world of Mario. I will be making the final level myself, and the final boss is...me! Because by the time this is over, you will all want to kill me.

I will also be making a tutorial level that explains the mechanics of SMBX, covering both the basics and the advanced stuff. So don't bother explaining to the player how to break blocks with their tail or spin jump on Thwomps. I've got it covered!

TESTING AND FEEDBACK

This iteration of RMN Bros. is going to put greater emphasis on play testing and providing feedback for levels. I will be playing each level personally and leaving feedback the developers can use to improve their stages. My feedback will be divided into three categories:

  • Deal Breakers
  • These are things you MUST CHANGE or your level WILL NOT BE ACCEPTED. These include all variety of game breaking errors and poor balance/design. I will provide thoughts and ideas on how to fix these, depending on the complexity of the problem.

  • If-You-Don'ts
  • These are things that, if you don't change them, I will. These include things like levels without checkpoints, blocks containing only mushrooms, or levels with unfitting power-ups. If you don't make these corrections, I'll see to them in the end.

  • Nitpicks
  • These are small complaints of low importance. Things that would make the level look or feel nicer, but aren't really a problem on their own. These will most likely be aesthetic in nature, and they don't have to be changed for the level to be accepted.

    Although I will be testing each level thoroughly myself, I strongly encourage others to do the same. You don't have to follow the same methods of providing feedback I am (in fact, you don't really have the authority to!), but every bit of criticism helps.

ADDITIONAL STAFFERS

This is a big project, and it's very bold of me to be managing it alone. That's why I'm leaving open two spots for other users to join me in running the show. But you can't just sign up and say "Hey hali I'll be your game management bro." You have to PROVE YOUR WORTH. How, you might ask? By playing levels and leaving feedback! The more in-depth, the better. Show me you have what it takes to contribute to this project, and I'll let you in. If you can't handle the work, I have no reason to hire you.

Duties of these staffers would include testing others levels and leaving feedback, as well as helping refine my own stages, tutorial, hubs, and so forth. I'm a tough critic, but even I can't face my own work alone!

PROJECT TIMELINE

Signups begin NOW, and EVERYONE is free to join! The project will run for one month (thirty days), and levels may be submitted for testing during this time. When the month is up, no more levels will be accepted. Existing levels may still be updated based on feedback. I will do my best to have the whole thing compiled just one week after the event ends. Then we can download and enjoy!

Registration

You must be logged in to sign up for Super RMN Bros. 3.

Posts

It has nothing to do with artistic vision, it's about changing things that don't need to be changed(which could be symptom of...nevermind xD). You gave reasons why the fire is useless while disregarding the reasons why it is useful; in this case it's pretty much half/half. I get the point of inappropriate powerups, but in this case it seems like you have tunnel vision and when you see a powerup that is ineffective against a portion of the level the alarm goes off. Mabye that one specific reason is more important than a general global easy-ness, to prevent someone from walking into a slowly moving(or stationary) object.

There have been other questionable suggestions that I disagreed with, but made the changes anyways. Some nitpicks that I won't be changing. It seems like RMNbros has become this thing that defines our community because of all the negative feedback(and direct competition) and now we have to prove ourselves by making a "perfect product".

Maybe it's just the way you approach game design, and since your "in charge" you're applying those rules to everyone else. It is my opinion that the "event coordinator" should make sure major game breaking bugs get fixed and compile the levels with a world map(oh, and give advice to ppl like jackolanturn on empty levels, but anyone giving general feedback would do that as well). That's it. Not force his/her own views on Mario level design. It takes some of the fun out of it for me to have to bend to your whims. If I want the player to go through a part of my level with just a mushroom power, then dammit that's my right. Maybe I want to make it challenging by not giving the player the ability to destroy every baddie or fly over the whole section. If I want the player to climb trees, who cares if they can't in other levels.

I'm not getting all defensive or bent out of shape, it's how I feel and I think I'm being pretty civil about it(with a touch of sarcastic humor). It's discussion, not drama. This event should be more liberal and less conservative. Keep it fun, ya know? kentona made a good post some time in the past, something like "if you want to make a more polished product form a small group like Mario Moon Base"

It's not just you, I felt this way about RMNb2 to some degree. Especially when Brickroad was all up in our faces, being a dick. It's part of the reason I didn't get involved in the event. I don't like the direction it's headed so I respectfully kept quiet(until now :P). I'm not asking you, or anybody, to change.

So...carry on.
halibabica
RMN's Official Reviewmonger
16873
author=Link_2112
You gave reasons why the fire is useless while disregarding the reasons why it is useful; in this case it's pretty much half/half.

I'd say it's more like 20/80. Do you really put so much value in being able to explode a Bob-Omb whenever you want? You'd have to be the most impatient person on earth to feel that necessary in either of the instances where you said it'd be useful. Not to mention there's a good chance a player starting the level small won't get the fire flower because they'll hit the block before getting the mushroom behind the wall. And in one of the places you need Bob-Omb, you have to run so far, you need his whole fuse anyway. And what can you kill with fire after that? Tweeters? Oh, and that single homing koopa, right. I'm sorry, but I don't see why you think that's so helpful.

from Link_2112
There have been other questionable suggestions that I disagreed with, but made the changes anyways. Some nitpicks that I won't be changing. It seems like RMNbros has become this thing that defines our community because of all the negative feedback(and direct competition) and now we have to prove ourselves by making a "perfect product".

And that's perfectly fine. I'm not sure what direct competition you mean, but if a lot of my feedback seems negative, it's because the only things I bring up are the stuff I think needs fixed.

from Link_2112
Maybe it's just the way you approach game design, and since your "in charge" you're applying those rules to everyone else.

Yeah, I kinda am! Because I don't want this iteration of RMN Bros. to be like the last two. I've been very lenient in terms of what is and isn't allowed; I'm just doing my best to ensure the end product is a solid, fun experience. It's no secret the first two are not particularly good games. Whether you like it or not, there ARE rules to Mario games; certain fundamentals that can really ruin levels when broken. Just because we can do anything we want doesn't mean we should. Your views on game design may differ from mine, but I try my best to present reasonable arguments for why I feel the way I do.

from Link_2112
If I want the player to go through a part of my level with just a mushroom power, then dammit that's my right. Maybe I want to make it challenging by not giving the player the ability to destroy every baddie or fly over the whole section.

Controlling difficulty is one thing. Bending the player to your intentions for the level is another. People don't play games to be stifled. That's part of the reason power-ups exist; to give the player more options on how to solve their problems. Yeah, they make things easier, but they're also easy to lose. When the player has no power-ups, then they do have to tough it out on their own. Making a level with nothing but mushrooms would only limit their options more. You have the right to do whatever you want, but that won't make it good game design.

from Link_2112
If I want the player to climb trees, who cares if they can't in other levels.

This falls into the argument about swimmable/non-swimmable waterfalls. It's unintuitive for an object to behave differently in one level than in another. Imagine if someone made a stage where they changed all the SMB2 baddies so they were vulnerable to fire. That would be bad game design. In every other level in the entire game, they're immune to fire, except in this one level. This is what I mean about Mario's fundamentals. If you're going to change the way something works, you need to clue the player in and show them why it works differently. If you wanted to keep your climbable palm trees, you should've edited some rungs onto their sprites, or even just had vines growing up out of the vases.

from Link_2112
This event should be more liberal and less conservative. Keep it fun, ya know? kentona made a good post some time in the past, something like "if you want to make a more polished product form a small group like Mario Moon Base"

This event is already very liberal! The nature of the project doesn't prevent it from being polished in the end. From the sounds of things, you just want complete and total freedom over everything you make, regardless of how good or bad it is. Guess what? That was RMN Bros. 1. It ended terribly. Like I said before, I've been very lenient. I only crack down on things I really think need changed. If that hampers the experience for you, then I'm sorry. I opted to run this event because I wanted to make an enjoyable collaborative game. I'm taking any measures I see necessary to achieve that.
Here's my opinion on it all.

Both Halibabica and Link_2112 are making valid points. I agree with Halibabica that consistency should be prioritized.

I also feel Link_2112 is correct on is mushroom idea. This is just my view point, but not every power up has to be special.

Halibabica is correct in saying that a player should be given more options in order to solve their problems. However, good level design can offer the player alternatives to achieve a solution. Power ups are only one way to solve an issue.

Take my level Goomba's Pass for instance. There's several different pathways to progress through the level and win. I allow the player the discretion to play the level the way they want to. They aren't forced to commit to a specific strategy in order to win.

However, Goomba's Pass is also designed to be an easy level. I have no clue how Link_2112's level, in question, is constructed (I'm waiting for the final product to be released).

Nonetheless, if Link_2112 chose to make the solution to his level limited, as long as it is possible to progress in the level without getting hit, I would consider it reasonable design.

For the most part, I would say Halibabica has been quite lenient on the project. He could impose far stricter requirements and enforce a more rigid style of quality control.

None of my levels were perfect and I would say his criticism improved them overall. For the most part, my levels have retained their general structure.

I didn't have to change too much.

But going back to the matter at hand, as long as the part of the level is possible to do without getting hit or having some game breaking nightmare occur, then I personally would consider it okay.

I don't speak for Halibabica though and that's his call at the end of the day.

Once again, just my opinion and it's not worth that much. Well, it might be worth a penny or two, but that would be pushing it.
Halibabica did a terrific job managing this event.
I completely appreciate his efforts

HALIBABICA

Correct:
Yes, you need to be tough on levels, if you had started RMN Bros 3 just 2 months earlier which was when I played the originals, I just thought, I ain't going to make levels on these, look at these crap levels... Bcecause the levels weren't been criticized and edited to a certain degree

What bloody freedom... its either a free game that ends up looking like it was made by a load of idiots who just stuck half a dozen snifits in a row and see how many people actually play it... OR you could do what Halibabica says and turn it into a game to enjoy, while Game Design in the end is a job and is not supposed to be just pure randomness, maybe fun but not just freedom, or else no-one will play and it will just be a flop

LINK

Wrong BUT has a point
On the matter of freedom, fair enough, maybe it's fair eneough to have a bit of random pick&mix even if it dosen't work well... BUT it stops there if two things have the same graphics but do something different is THE limit!

On the note of being offensive and defensive, JUST be in the middle, so more a debate than a war...

Oh and Link, perhaps it's just too little to ask BUT I do think that even the most minor of people should get really involved in critiques... I'm not blaming Halibabica (Whom I think has done an absolutely PERFECT job) but I think that the main problem is that people go on levels to find their problems BUT don't try to find solutions...

LINK if your level comes before a level with a palm tree near an unjumpable pit that you cross using pipes at either side, say the palm tree's big, the player's running and jumps the over the pipe jumps and holds up to grab on, finds it unclimbable and falls to his death, the first thing player things is: WTF
Seiromem
I would have more makerscore If I did things.
6375
I'll have no say on who's right and who's wrong. It's all a matter of opinion.
Someone might think something looks/functions better while another might disagree.

That's All I'm saying that would make a little sense @.@
We're going to have to agree to disagree.

author=halibabica
I'd say it's more like 20/80.

I was only talking about the first section. The fire kills the pokeys too. There's more pokeys than other enemies.

The focus shifts to leaf power right after that anyways.

I'm sorry, but I don't see why you think that's so helpful.
Yeah, I was actually talking about something else there. I wasn't saying blowing up the bomb was important, but that maybe my decision to do something specific is more important than other things. Kind of like, maybe there is a secret that requires the fire flower later and you would have had to collect it at the start and keep it til the end. (but oh, you'd probably call that bad design)

but if a lot of my feedback seems negative, it's because the only things I bring up are the stuff I think needs fixed.
I meant the negative feedback people have voiced against RMNbros in general.

I have a problem with what you call good design, or conversely what you call bad design. If something doesn't fit your opinion, then it's called bad design. I disagree, it's just different and equally as valid.

Either way, I'm done talking bout this.

Also, thanks for your opinion Darklord.
author=halibabica
@Faenon: I looked at the update, but as far as I can tell, the only difference is that player 2 has a start position now. My feelings regarding the level are otherwise unchanged: it's very flat, raw, and dull. I'm not sure what to recommend, really. It's passable as is, but it'd need a serious overhaul to get any better.


Ok, well I'm done with Stop the Clock now. I did do more than add in P2's position though, I extended the level and added in some new bits. Sorry I can't do more on it, I'm burned out on SMBX now as I've been only been snatching the time for it in between coursework deadlines. You can take it as it is, sprooce it up yourself, or can it, I don't mind. Cheers.
Well hopefully thats the end of it...
By the way Link? Is it just a coincidence that this happened just after you changed your profile picture to say "Whatever blows your bubble, baby"?
Oh no, where did the last 2 months go. 50 levels to review and 40 pages of posts and haven't made a level yet, I think I'm too far behind. I'll just play and try to review the finished product or something

Hurry up hali I want to play Super Role Playing Game Maker Brothers 3
Hang on... aren't you that guy who created that spam level...
author=jackalotrun
Hang on... aren't you that guy who created that spam level...


Oh right, I forgot that level. Wait, whaaaat! SPAM is hardly a way to describe that brilliant and amazing masterpiece! I slaved night and day to make it...
halibabica
RMN's Official Reviewmonger
16873
Hey, AncientNoob isn't dead!

from Link_2112
I wasn't saying blowing up the bomb was important, but that maybe my decision to do something specific is more important than other things. Kind of like, maybe there is a secret that requires the fire flower later and you would have had to collect it at the start and keep it til the end. (but oh, you'd probably call that bad design)

Not necessarily. It all depends on how it's implemented. I can think of at least one secret star in the project that you need a specific power-up to obtain, and I'm perfectly fine with that. Heck, there are dozens* of ways the player can mess up in Chainsaw Massacre, but they can still finish the level, and the challenge is there for those after the secret star. Don't make me sound closed-minded.

*four

from Link_2112
I have a problem with what you call good design, or conversely what you call bad design. If something doesn't fit your opinion, then it's called bad design. I disagree, it's just different and equally as valid.

It may be my opinion, but at least I back it up with well-reasoned thought. Take your Yoshi coin resprite for example. I told you it looks weird, why it looks weird, and how to fix it. Your answer was 'meh'. Do I think it could look better? Yes, or I wouldn't have said anything. Is it a big deal? Hardly. Will others think it looks weird, too? Maybe. That's the choice you made, and I'm not stopping you from making it.

I can appreciate the validity of things that are different, but being different doesn't automatically make it good.
What? Impossible!
I can't believe you just said being original doesn't make it automaticly good.
I mean my level hammer hideout I tried to make it so purple that everyone would be distracted about the fact that the level is actually really ratarded.
And goomba caves was my attempt to make a level so repetitive, that the player would forget any other level exists...
I'm just kidding, or am I?

Ancient noob?
Spam level? You mean that brilliant level with random (geniusly placed) corner blocks everywhere.
Aincient Noob, heres something for ya, i do believe that at that level review (whatever ya wanna call it) certainly sticks your level under half-assed... seriously though, why put it it?
Isrieri
"My father told me this would happen."
6155
author=jackalotrun
Aincient Noob, heres something for ya, i do believe that at that level review (whatever ya wanna call it) certainly sticks your level under half-assed... seriously though, why put it it?


Maybe because, oh I dunno, it was hilarious? And let me spend a good few minutes having a fun time? It wasn't supposed to be a serious entry right?
author=Isrieri
author=jackalotrun
Aincient Noob, heres something for ya, i do believe that at that level review (whatever ya wanna call it) certainly sticks your level under half-assed... seriously though, why put it it?
Maybe because, oh I dunno, it was hilarious? And let me spend a good few minutes having a fun time? It wasn't supposed to be a serious entry right?

It was actually better than some serious entries.
Fair enough...
Although I found it more entertaining to try make something out of it...
halibabica
RMN's Official Reviewmonger
16873
Just posting a status update...

The end is near. It's still indefinite, but it's getting very, very close. hedge1, I hope you're able to finish your level soon. If any of the rest of you still need to make changes, now's the time to do it! Don't delay; that 24-hour warning could be up as early as tomorrow night.
I'll have something by tomorrow night that's "finished" for you to review. Technically it'll still be far from what I wanted, but it'll be a level that's playable from start to finish. April has not been a kind month to me.

EDIT: Here's the "completed" level.
http://rpgmaker.net/users/hedge1/locker/Watch_that_First_Step.lvl
It should correct for all of your complaints except for the wooden spikes. My argument for keeping the wooden spikes as-is is that they're really easy to dodge if you stop the elevator and wait. Let me know what changes you need to see (if any).

EDIT2: I'm still thinking about the name. I want something clever like "The Rise and Fall of Mario" or "Watch Your First Step" but I'm not sure if either work at all. "Toad's Gold Mine" is always an option.