WHAT ARE YOU THINKING ABOUT RIGHT NOW?

Posts

author=Pizza
http://www.themarysue.com/sfv-butt-censorship/Good article on the pointlessly inane "controversial" issue of Game Devs "censoring" their work.

I am so tired of this being talked about like it's the end of the fucking world.

author=Kaliesto
I don't see how I'm wrong when Capcom admitted it.

Let me be clear:

I don't give a fuck if you're wrong or not. I just thought I'd post an article about the subject that's actually well written.
And it's already getting heated. Forget it, I can't talk about it without someone going off.
it seems like transparent fearmongering to go 'well, they could change ANYTHING'

yes, they literally could change anything, because they are the developers of the game. that is, again, how it works. criticism as always influences the creators, who as always tailor the final product to suit their vision and the tastes of the audience. as it was, as it is, and so on.

people trying to spin this into a terrifying precedent, a sign of some dark future where marginalized groups viciously police good honest anime-lovers, are generally trying to sell you something or cause trouble for someone.
author=Kaliesto
And it's already getting heated. Forget it, I can't talk about it without someone going off.

Yes god forbid we actually talk about the "issue" at hand instead of sitting around and saying "THEY'RE CENSORING MY TITTY GIRLS! HOW DARE THEY!!!"

author=Kaliesto
I don't see how I'm wrong when Capcom admitted it. I mean what is to stop them now knowing they could go after anything, nevermind what Capcom did.

Who's going to go after anything? Who is the invisible monster in this scenario?
Ratty524
The 524 is for 524 Stone Crabs
12896
author=Pizza
http://www.themarysue.com/sfv-butt-censorship/Good article on the pointlessly inane "controversial" issue of Game Devs "censoring" their work.

I am so tired of this being talked about like it's the end of the fucking world.

You mean I can't fap to women who are placed in sexual poses, regardless of whether it actually describes their character, for the sake of pandering to lonely manchildren? That IS the end of the world! I demand this game be free to pirate to satisfy my entitlement!
Honestly? I don't mind certain things being censored or influenced by outside influences. There's got to be some line drawn.

I will admit that aiming to censor a butt slap from a game that is all about butts, breasts and babes is incredibly stupid and assinine though.

Maybe if it were in a game where it doesn't fit at all or comes off as demeaning to the character (let's make, say, Rosa from FFIV slap her butt at the enemy... actually, that would be amazingly funny), yeah, but I've seen sports peeps slap their behinds at other people before. It's a clear sign of challenge - not exactly lewd behaviour.

Now if they did the eating pussy sign and groin pumping or air-bj, that'd be another thing altogether. But yeah, I've nothing against people changing their games based on what the audience wants to see. We do that all the time here, so...
Where do we draw the line between criticism, and self-respect as a person or group? I'm tempted to call it the Star Wars Syndrome being as the perfect example.

EDIT @Liberty:

That is why common sense is needed. Games like Street Fighter, and Dead or Alive been doing this forever, and it is expected by the demographics, but in Final Fantasy, and then yes I would have a problem with that. It should be a case by case deal.
author=Liberty
I will admit that aiming to censor a butt slap from a game that is all about butts, breasts and babes is incredibly stupid and assinine though.

street fighter is, ostensibly, about street fighting
...I don't get the reference/point you're trying to make?


If, when it's pointed out to the developer, they feel 'oh, okay, maybe too far' then that's what the dev thinks and if they change it it's up to them. They have the choice to do either, so... It's their risk and their sales and their choice. They can take what has been said and change it, or not. As they like. What happens when it is released is based on those choices - and those choices have to be based on what you think is right for your game.

If someone says 'remove x' but it's integral, then ignore them. If someone who has never played a Visual Novel before complains about there being too much writing, they're idiots. Ignore them.
If people who were never going to buy your game complain about a butt slap, ignore them.
But if you feel like it's not a big deal to remove and won't cost you anything and you don't particularly care about it, that's up to you. Either way, your choice as a dev. Just don't bitch about outside influence - it was always your fucking choice.



Isrieri
"My father told me this would happen."
6155
Street Fighter is, and has always been, about kung fu movies.
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
6003
@Pizza: I mean, the Nichegamer article is extremely well written. It presents the facts and lets the reader draw their own conclusion, and it cites specific quotes from official sources.

Your Marysue article was written with an extremely clear agenda and is full of the author's personal opinions and conjecture. It's also extremely angry, links to the author's previous articles, and cites random other people's youtube videos. It is certainly not well written.

One is a news story and the other is a livejournal rant.
When George Lucas added in a few new scenes for the old trilogy, the crowd got quite upset, and then later I think he removed it in the next re-release.
author=Liberty
...I don't get the reference/point you're trying to make?

the butt slap thing is from street fighter. street fighter five is the game that a thousand thousand slimy things said was ruined by the alteration of a butt slap animation. I... thought that was the one you were talking about.

anyway, even if horny stuff is actually the core of the game + its entire purpose, it still bears criticism -- it just changes the situation a little, and should be kept in mind when putting together that criticism. a lot of valid criticism doesn't pertain to just the presence of sexual content alone, but its context and what it communicates.

e: and very little criticism is just 'remove x' -- that's a line we keep buying from people who like to treat criticism and censorship as though they're the same thing.
Nah, the butt slap was one of the things that was apparently removed in DOA whatever, which is why I used it as reference. XP


what I've seen of the progressive perspective on doa is basically just a resigned sigh; it's gross, unsalvageable, and ultimately insignificant. people like to pretend that it's something that has people clutching their pearls in shock because that helps them sell import copies to assholes.

like, Kaliesto, please consider that 'the SJWs don't want you to have this, so buy it from us' has been a shockingly widespread marketing tactic in some circles lately. a lot of the stuff telling doomsday stories about censorship is just trying to sell on you.
^About that. I mixed up my information there. That was Street Fighter, and not DOA.

But I don't think Capcom was going out of their way to make gamers horny. I think they just wanted to make the characters sexy, but I guess being sexy is who defines it that no one will agree on. You can make the argument the guys look fine too (muscles, good haircut, face, etc).


Also For example America, and Central America have completely different views on that, and same for Europe, and other countries. Being Sexy is viewed very differently on where you're at.
I typed this up and meant to post it early but fuck it I'm posing it even though the topic has changed a bit because I ain't wasting my time writing it to just not post the fucking thing. So there. XD


As devs it's our choices what goes into a game. If we feel outside pressure to change something, it's still our choice to say yes or no. It's up to us to make informed decisions about feedback we receive and whether it's worth following or not.

Bitching about outside influence is stupid, because ultimately, you choose what to keep or remove. You bear the blame, not outside influence. It is your choice that matters and if you do well or not, you were the one who chose to cave or not.

There's always going to be opinions about whether something worked or not in your game but that's all part and parcel with creating anything. People will have opinions - whether you let those opinions change your decisions is 100% up to you.

Blaming the 'outside' influences for changes YOU make is stupid. Just because they push for something doesn't mean you have to give it to them.
author=Kaliesto
^About that. I mixed up my information there. That was Street Fighter, and not DOA.

But I don't think Capcom was going out of their way to make gamers horny. I think they just wanted to make the characters sexy, but I guess being sexy is who defines it that no one will agree on.

For example America, and Central America have completely different views on that.

you're still phrasing this as though someone with dyed hair and an undercut broke into the studio and started unplugging people's computers. the game Capcom wanted to make is the game they made. marginalized groups and progressive critics do not have the dark underworld influence that people seem so eager to assume they do.

also: differing cultural standards do not render criticism invalid, different cultures have critics of their own speaking from that background, and the whole fallacy is one or two steps away from the old classic of 'well if I lived in Japan they'd respect my otaku status' anyway

other cultures are not there for you to point at and say 'well, THEY'D be okay with it'. show some respect.
author=Liberty
Nah, the butt slap was one of the things that was apparently removed in DOA whatever, which is why I used it as reference. XP
Pretty sure this is about Rainbow Mika's booty-pincer attack of pain and hilarity being removed, and Kaliesto just got his wires crossed in earlier comments.
e: ninja'd

I'm still trying to understand how that silly attack crossed a line that R. Mika's outfit in general hadn't already crossed twice, but w/e I'll probably never play the game anyways.

e: yeah, I guess it's always possible that Capcom just thought it was too silly.
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
6003
Here's a third opinion for you guys. I thought the butt slapping was crass and I'm glad it's toned down, but I wish they'd actually remove it, and possibly even remove or redesign the entire character. I'm not offended by it or anything like that, I just think she's gross and ugly and spandexy, and I don't see why anyone would actually want that in their game.

It's like when your aunt tries to be sexy. Just. Please stop.