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Posts
ubon
66
ubon
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Closechrist, are we still on this
Kaliesto, please stop reheating all your old 'well WHAT IF CRITICISM ACTUALLY IS CENSORSHIP' nonsense like this and hoping it'll catch on this time. like, you're referring to criticism as 'social coercion' now? the hell?
Kaliesto, please stop reheating all your old 'well WHAT IF CRITICISM ACTUALLY IS CENSORSHIP' nonsense like this and hoping it'll catch on this time. like, you're referring to criticism as 'social coercion' now? the hell?
author=Kaliesto
And speaking of youtube stuff. I always wanted to do a video game review of import games as a way to make a side-living like some of the youtube guys that do similar stuff. I definitely want unknown Japanese games to make more of a presence, and a chance for interest to build back up.
There's some pretty decent LPs and stuff out there that have this. Threads on other forums have done translation LPs before and they're usually well recieved (I remember the Dangan Ronpa one that basically spurred a whole fandom XD )
ubon
66
I'd like it if more people were able to work with the concept that an original game and its localization are separate texts. the way people act as though such-and-such has been Removed or Altered or whatever has always seemed weirdly alarmist.
Like how Fallout 3 in japan doesn't have the megaton nuke quest? (unless this is incorrect information, but it's true right?)
ubon
66
I don't know one way or another, but these comparisons are always interesting to me, even in cases where it's just 'oh, here's how the meaning and nuance in this line changed slightly during translation'.
Legends of Localization is pretty good for that! Very indepth stuff about the localization process from someone who translates for a living.
Legends of Localization is pretty good for that! Very indepth stuff about the localization process from someone who translates for a living.
SnowOwl
5188
Localizations should be as true to the original as possible. Why the hell would they not be? You're supposed to get the same thing just in another language.
ubon
66
the cognitive effort people put in to stay mad about this sort of thing is amazing to me
e: like, the actual goal of localization is to create an experience that strikes the audience in the same way as the original. this sounds similar to your idea of exact 1:1 accuracy, but it requires more cultural knowledge and nuance from the people doing the localization. FF14's localization team have been fairly open about their own process, for instance -- their work has involved things like changing certain characters' introductory lines significantly, out of concern that they might leave an incorrect first impression on an audience that doesn't have the same familiarity with certain tropes as the Japanese playerbase. this sort of thing is regularly undertaken by localization teams to varying degrees.
basically, changes will sometimes be necessary to keep the tone and meaning of the work intact for different audiences and their own backgrounds and expectations. these changes are usually small in scope, but removing elements which would take on a horrible cultural context in the game's new locale is hardly unheard of, and far from an inappropriate decision.
e: like, the actual goal of localization is to create an experience that strikes the audience in the same way as the original. this sounds similar to your idea of exact 1:1 accuracy, but it requires more cultural knowledge and nuance from the people doing the localization. FF14's localization team have been fairly open about their own process, for instance -- their work has involved things like changing certain characters' introductory lines significantly, out of concern that they might leave an incorrect first impression on an audience that doesn't have the same familiarity with certain tropes as the Japanese playerbase. this sort of thing is regularly undertaken by localization teams to varying degrees.
basically, changes will sometimes be necessary to keep the tone and meaning of the work intact for different audiences and their own backgrounds and expectations. these changes are usually small in scope, but removing elements which would take on a horrible cultural context in the game's new locale is hardly unheard of, and far from an inappropriate decision.
Yeah, I think people are so used to pointing out the coddling side of localization, that they forget that it actually helps people from differing cultural backgrounds get into your media.
Like, have you ever actually played a game that was translated with pin-point accuracy from Japanese? The writing becomes monotonous and dead, and unless you have a broad range of knowledge about other cultures, chances are it won't make any sense to you.
So I agree with mawk here. Still, I think people should strike a "goldilocks zone" with it. Making any localized piece approachable without altering the main point, which I think good localization teams do already.
Hell, you might also consider that in that regard, we are WAY better off compared to video game localizations in the '80s and '90s.
e: an example: https://tcrf.net/Pokémon_Red_and_Blue/Translation_Errors
Like, have you ever actually played a game that was translated with pin-point accuracy from Japanese? The writing becomes monotonous and dead, and unless you have a broad range of knowledge about other cultures, chances are it won't make any sense to you.
So I agree with mawk here. Still, I think people should strike a "goldilocks zone" with it. Making any localized piece approachable without altering the main point, which I think good localization teams do already.
Hell, you might also consider that in that regard, we are WAY better off compared to video game localizations in the '80s and '90s.
e: an example: https://tcrf.net/Pokémon_Red_and_Blue/Translation_Errors
A lot of things don't transfer well, especially japanese to english, or german
So of course dialogue or some social norms change here and there
So of course dialogue or some social norms change here and there
Corfaisus
"It's frustrating because - as much as Corf is otherwise an irredeemable person - his 2k/3 mapping is on point." ~ psy_wombats
7874
Did someone say censorship?
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"Damn it, America, just let me have my 10 year old underboob! Is that too much to ask?!"
Remember how awesome FLCL was with all its American pop culture references such as Jimi Hendrix and the Red Hot Chili Peppers? It'd be kind of jarring if, in the middle of a conversation, they went off about Psycho le Cému or some shit, right?
Like, who even are they?
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(ﾉﾟ ｰﾟ)ﾉ ︵ ┻━┻
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"Damn it, America, just let me have my 10 year old underboob! Is that too much to ask?!"
author=SnowOwl
Localizations should be as true to the original as possible. Why the hell would they not be? You're supposed to get the same thing just in another language.
Remember how awesome FLCL was with all its American pop culture references such as Jimi Hendrix and the Red Hot Chili Peppers? It'd be kind of jarring if, in the middle of a conversation, they went off about Psycho le Cému or some shit, right?
Like, who even are they?
There's a trope, "woolseyism" i think it is called, that talks about the modification of a product's script to better accommodate foreign audiences, and i think it is something that should be done to every form of media, because the alternatives just bring terrible things to the viewers.
A sample of a terrible, 1:1 accurate translation was the latin american Monsters vs Aliens movie. They translated all american-centered jokes directly to spanish and the film sucked terribly at mexican theaters for it. It was truly a sight to behold. I watched recordings of people in the US watching this particular scene. People were literally crying tears of laughter. In the theater i went you could listen to the heartbeat of the guy sitting five rows below you because of how dead silent the room was.
Bad localization definitely hurts the sales and reception of your product in other countries. If you just get the same thing in another language the result is almost guaranteed to sell poorly because people, not being the same everywhere, won't be able to relate.
A sample of a terrible, 1:1 accurate translation was the latin american Monsters vs Aliens movie. They translated all american-centered jokes directly to spanish and the film sucked terribly at mexican theaters for it. It was truly a sight to behold. I watched recordings of people in the US watching this particular scene. People were literally crying tears of laughter. In the theater i went you could listen to the heartbeat of the guy sitting five rows below you because of how dead silent the room was.
Bad localization definitely hurts the sales and reception of your product in other countries. If you just get the same thing in another language the result is almost guaranteed to sell poorly because people, not being the same everywhere, won't be able to relate.
author=CorfaisusBack in my day 10 year olds didn't have B cups. Times sure change.
"Damn it, America, just let me have my 10 year old underboob! Is that too much to ask?!"
turkeyDawg
195
Well, I mean, that's what happens when you get the guy who's work history includes titles like "Anal Justice" to do your children's vidjyacon manga adaptation.
I think she's actually 13 in the comic but that's still too young for underboob...
I think she's actually 13 in the comic but that's still too young for underboob...
ubon
66
it's kind of funny to me that a lot of the people now developing a Captain Ahab-style fixation on censorship were just a few years ago making fun of this same kind of overzealous anime fan anger.
Corfaisus
"It's frustrating because - as much as Corf is otherwise an irredeemable person - his 2k/3 mapping is on point." ~ psy_wombats
7874
author=Mirak
I watched recordings of people in the US watching this particular scene. People were literally crying tears of laughter. In the theater i went you could listen to the heartbeat of the guy sitting five rows below you because of how dead silent the room was.
I watched that just now and I didn't even chuckle. Maybe because the sound quality was terrible, or maybe I couldn't uncringe myself in time for the conclusion after the oh-so-timely Black Eyed Peas reference. To quote a particular mimetic comment "I'm ten seconds in and my face is a raisin."
SnowOwl
5188
In theory it's a good thing to localize a little bit. In practice, 9/10 times, they dumb it down or straight out change the whole meaning of a scene.
I don't want dumbed down shit. I am capable of looking something up if I don't understand some cultural difference.
Edit: Sometimes it's impossible to keep the original meaning though, like jokes that are plays on words etc. Fine, change those.
EditEdit: Here's a normal localization.
I don't want dumbed down shit. I am capable of looking something up if I don't understand some cultural difference.
Edit: Sometimes it's impossible to keep the original meaning though, like jokes that are plays on words etc. Fine, change those.
EditEdit: Here's a normal localization.
Jeroen_Sol
Nothing reveals Humanity so well as the games it plays. A game of betrayal, where the most suspicious person is brutally murdered? How savage.
3885
That's a gross over-exaggeration and you know it. Many games translate into different mediums pretty well, since they have their own in-game culture rather than a reference to pop culture every two lines. Yes, often games do reflect the culture they originated in, and yes, in such games, a scene sometimes has to be changed in order to convey the same message in another culture. So what? Praise the localization team for putting in effort to create an experience that is enjoyable outside of Japan, don't bash them for not being a glorified Google Translate.
Kaliesto
583
That's it. No more of this. Blocked. I didn't choose to engage another conversation with you since I wanted to respect that, but you had to go nuts with what I said. No more, I don't need any more stress right now. I have better things to do than watch a shitstorm happen again. I already agreed I was wrong on some things, but all I was saying that it may not always be the case for a couple of studios which is my opinion. No one has to agree with me on it. I never had to block anyone on RMN for years until now, but you kept pushing it.
--------------------
For localization, I agree some text may not make sense for another country, and probably could have some free liberties as long it conveys the same message. I think Working Designs Studio was pretty famous or infamous for this depending how you feel about them back in the day. Like there might be a actual Japanese drink in the game, but people may not get it, and so it is changed to something equivalent in another country. I'm on the right track correct? Though I can't say that for every Japanese game since they kept some stuff like that intact in some localization, I guess it depends on the studio.
--------------------
For localization, I agree some text may not make sense for another country, and probably could have some free liberties as long it conveys the same message. I think Working Designs Studio was pretty famous or infamous for this depending how you feel about them back in the day. Like there might be a actual Japanese drink in the game, but people may not get it, and so it is changed to something equivalent in another country. I'm on the right track correct? Though I can't say that for every Japanese game since they kept some stuff like that intact in some localization, I guess it depends on the studio.
Corfaisus
"It's frustrating because - as much as Corf is otherwise an irredeemable person - his 2k/3 mapping is on point." ~ psy_wombats
7874
Oops, shit went down. Unleash the passing dialogue!
Final Fantasy VI review
Final Fantasy VI review
Locke
And when we do get to see what he gets up to on his own, it turns out he's fucking mental. He had some bad breakup with a girl who then died, and so he's kept her corpse in some weird suspended state in some guy's basement. He then dedicates his life to finding some piece of crap that I've forgotten to bring her back to life, and it turns out all his interactions with Terra and Celes are weird transference of his feelings and regrets with this dead girl and aren't even about them. Obviously you don't leave a corpse frozen in a creepy basement-shrine for no reason, and so eventually in the World of Ruin you find the thing and you can bring her back to life. It's not a bad little scene: Locke, the playful chatty joker, finally gets this big moment he's waiting for and working for for years, and it's really sad and really serious and he doesn't have anything to say. It's bittersweet and he gets closure and can finally move on. I can't though. He kept a girl's corpse in some dude's basement for years. That's really weird, man. Locke's not a cool guy. Like his relationship with Celes works out and stuff, but I'm not really on board with it anymore because I know that up until that point the relationship was really his misplaced feelings about this dead girl he was keeping in stasis in some guy's basement. What the fuck.
Edgar & Friends
Also feel like it's definitely worth noting that the game hints pretty strongly a few times that he's an actual paedophile. And that the game plays this for laughs. Like it's fine, he's just being a 'scamp'. Why? Why would they do this? I don't know, maybe it is fine. Maybe Edgar's reign has seen his kingdom become some sort of libertarian pedo-utopia. Maybe it's just fine in the world of Final Fantasy VI. I mean, I don't know what they believe. We don't get a lot of examples of regular relationships in this game. There's that soldier sending letters to his girlfiend, then there's Locke and his creepy dead girlfriend, and then you have Setzer who's announced that he's going to kidnap a woman and marry her against her will. People are like, annoyed by that, but only really so far as it will mess up the opera. The underlying idea of kidnapping women for yourself seems mostly accepted. Cyan even pretends to be that dead soldier so he can write letters to his girlfriend for his own benefit. Who the fuck are these people? I'm glad their world got burned and ruined, these guys are the worst.
SnowOwl
5188
author=Jeroen_Sol
That's a gross over-exaggeration and you know it. Many games translate into different mediums pretty well, since they have their own in-game culture rather than a reference to pop culture every two lines. Yes, often games do reflect the culture they originated in, and yes, in such games, a scene sometimes has to be changed in order to convey the same message in another culture. So what? Praise the localization team for putting in effort to create an experience that is enjoyable outside of Japan, don't bash them for not being a glorified Google Translate.
Yeah it's a bit of an exaggeration, I was mostly having fun with that picture. But it's the general feeling I get from alot of localizations. I want a glorified google translate. I don't mind cultural differences in my games/videos. Why should I praise some asshat that change it from the way the original gamemakers wanted the game to be represented?
It's one thing in childrens cartoons and similar, but in stuff meant for reasonably intelligent people? No thanks.
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
5958
FF6 is my favorite game of all time and that guy hates it, but I found his review hysterical and also completely spot-on.
Also, I want you to know that I have no more than three dead ex-girlfriends in suspended animation in my basement, it's a completely reasonable number, stop acting like it's such a huge deal
Also, I want you to know that I have no more than three dead ex-girlfriends in suspended animation in my basement, it's a completely reasonable number, stop acting like it's such a huge deal
