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supremewarrior
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Closeauthor=Allen Hunter
1. The last thing that runs through my mind when making games on a shitty program like RPG Maker 2000 is the assumption that I'd want to make some money off of them. No one with an IQ over 80 would want to pay a single penny for an RM game, no matter how less-sucky it is compared to its contemporaries
Thats some close minded mentality. Good games are everywhere no matter what they are made with.
author=supremewarrior
Thats some close minded mentality. Good games are everywhere no matter what they are made with.
He's talking about selling 2k games.
They're not good enough that they're worth spending money for.
author=heisenmanauthor=supremewarriorHe's talking about selling 2k games.
Thats some close minded mentality. Good games are everywhere no matter what they are made with.
They're not good enough that they're worth spending money for.
You can make a good game out of anything, whether is RPG Maker VX or 2k3, Flash, UDK, a deck of cards or a pencil and paper. Some tools are better for certain tasks than others, but in the end a good designer will know how to utilize the tech available to do what he needs - and a bad designer with good tech is unlikely to be much more effective than a bad designer with bad tech.
There have been outstanding RPG Maker games and terrible RPG Maker games, just as there have been outstanding and terrible games made with Unreal or anything else.
AABattery
732
I don't disagree that people would buy games made in RM2k/3, but there isn't a large audience for those types of graphics anymore, therefore harder to sell.
The hard part for us avant-garde post-modern artists is deciding whether or not to embrace commercialism. Do we allow our work to be hyped and exploited by a market that's simply hungry for the next new thing? Do we participate in a system that turns high art into low art so it's better suited for mass consumption? Of course, when an artist goes commercial, he makes a mockery of his status as an outsider and free thinker. He buys into the crass and shallow values art should transcend. He trades the integrity of his art for riches and fame.
Dyhalto
7536
author=kentona
The hard part for us avant-garde post-modern artists is deciding whether or not to embrace commercialism. Do we allow our work to be hyped and exploited by a market that's simply hungry for the next new thing? Do we participate in a system that turns high art into low art so it's better suited for mass consumption? Of course, when an artist goes commercial, he makes a mockery of his status as an outsider and free thinker. He buys into the crass and shallow values art should transcend. He trades the integrity of his art for riches and fame.
Years ago, and in the immediate present, I'd agree.
But in the future, as long as the internet stays the way it is, this will change. People will be able to produce their art and earn a moderate living from even a limited audience. It's only in the Go Big Or Go Home mainstream of the past few decades that you "make it or break it". Artists of equal talent are either millionaires snorting blow or they're bagging groceries for minimum wage. I'll be glad when this system's dead and gone.
That's not to say there won't be the mega-success stories though.
Are we talking about hypothetical 2k games or actual 2k games where chipsets are stolen, charsets are stolen, monster sprites are stolen, music is stolen, gameplay ideas and story ideas are stolen and the engine is stolen too.
You can't sell games based on game-design alone.
I can make the awesomest game ever made of pen and paper, doesn't mean it's worth actual money.
Btw this doesn not refer to 2k alone.
You can't sell games based on game-design alone.
I can make the awesomest game ever made of pen and paper, doesn't mean it's worth actual money.
Btw this doesn not refer to 2k alone.
author=heisenmanIf people want to buy your game you wouldn't let them?
Are we talking about hypothetical 2k games or actual 2k games where chipsets are stolen, charsets are stolen, monster sprites are stolen, music is stolen, gameplay ideas and story ideas are stolenand the engine is stolen too.
You can't sell games based on game-design alone.
I can make the awesomest game ever made of pen and paper, doesn't mean it's worth actual money.
Btw this doesn not refer to 2k alone.
author=heisenman
You can't sell games based on game-design alone.
Wha...what?
I can make the awesomest game ever made of pen and paper, doesn't mean it's worth actual money.
Oh man, you got me, for a second I thought you were being serious.
You are joking, right? I mean, there's no way you haven't heard of Dungeons & Dragons, right?
...right...?
P.S. Calvin and Hobbes were my favorite comics as a kid
author=supremewarrior
If people want to buy your game you wouldn't let them?
If hypothetical people wanted to give me their money for my hypothetical game I wouldn't let them because I wouldn't put the game up for sale in the first place knowing I only put the ideas and nothing else.
But it's less about what I would personally do and more about is it actually legal/correct to sell videogames if you only put the ideas and the rest is stolen/unoriginal material even if you are given the opportunity to earn money from it.
author=slashphoenixauthor=heisenmanWha...what?
You can't sell games based on game-design alone.
Yeah, to sell a videogame you also have to put stuff like music and graphic and shit. Mind boggling I know.
You are joking, right? I mean, there's no way you haven't heard of Dungeons & Dragons, right?
Not like you know, they also put actual things like rulebooks, dices and miniatures in the package. They don't sell *ideas* alone.
Commercializing a game with ripped resources and unoriginal content is illegal, and that's not what this discussion is about.
Selling a rm2k/3 game would be illegal because there are no legal English versions of those engines. But there are many rm2k/3 games made completely out of original resources.
Selling a rm2k/3 game would be illegal because there are no legal English versions of those engines. But there are many rm2k/3 games made completely out of original resources.
Yeah, there are plenty of games made in game makers, like RMVX and XP for example. Aveyond springs immediately to mind, as are harm's games, iirc.
Aveyond (which I found horribly boring) imo never deserved to be commercialized, as for the Amaranth games in general, they have, I think a very select and small public, hardly what I call commercial games. Harms'way is free, as far as I could see, as for iirc games I really know nothing of those...?
author=heisenman
Yeah, to sell a videogame you also have to put stuff like music and graphic and shit. Mind boggling I know.
We were talking about games, not video games - which have been played with as little as nothing but the players and rules - since the dawn of man.
Not like you know, they also put actual things like rulebooks, dices and miniatures in the package. They don't sell *ideas* alone.
This isn't even an argument, you're just proving my point - rulebooks are ideas. Every game's "rulebook" is really just a set of ideas designed by the game's creator. All games are based upon rules and limitations.
And not like you'd know, but the original DnD had no minis and only used dice - so a game made of nothing but paper, pencils, dice and dreams. how 'bout that shit
So if you're trying to argue that people need crazy high-end computer tools to design and can't make good games out of nothing but household items, you failed.
Anyway, @chana: Besides To The Moon which I mentioned earlier (made with RPG Maker, nominated for several awards including a Sound Design prize at the IGF) some extremely popular games nowadays were made with simple tools - Spelunky comes to mind as a huge hit. The original Spelunky was made in Game Maker, which is based around a drag-and-drop interface, and now it's enormously successful and soon to be ported to XBLA.
