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DISCUSSION OF MULTIPLE THINGS
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NoblemanNick
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CloseWhat do you think is more suited for games, the ability to save anywhere or save points throughout the game?
Do you think you should level up more easily in the beginning, at the end, or the same experience curve throughout the whole game?
Swords V.S Guns, what do you think is more preferrable and do you think you could combine both of them.
Do you think you should level up more easily in the beginning, at the end, or the same experience curve throughout the whole game?
Swords V.S Guns, what do you think is more preferrable and do you think you could combine both of them.
Chartley
50
I don't think any of those have any kind of correct answer. You just have to pay attention to difficulty and game balance. And for swords and guns, I guess it depends on the setting?
Yeah I pretty much agree with Chartley on this one. There's no real correct answer to these. It depends primarily on game balance and setting, and how the maker themselves wants the player to experience the world.
TMAC
0
Yeah, pretty much what Chartley said.
For saving, it really depends on your personal beliefs. Saving anywhere, anytime is a great convenience but it also makes the game easier and forgiving. Only being able to save at save points definitely adds a little more challenge, but can be a major inconvenience if one has to search to save. I personally like a middle ground: namely being able to save anywhere on the overworld/towns, but limited to save points whilst inside a dungeon. That's just my preference.
As for experience curves, if it's balanced it's fine. Though it really depends on how many lvls you plan to have.
The weapon does not make the character. I'd honestly concentrate on character design\development a lot to make sure your characters can stand on their own two feet. Whether they're wielding Awesome Sword, Badass Gun or even Rolling Pin, it won't make a major difference if they're written well as long the weapon fits the character. Like Chartley said, it also depends on the setting and world the game takes place in. If in the proper context, both can be used.
For saving, it really depends on your personal beliefs. Saving anywhere, anytime is a great convenience but it also makes the game easier and forgiving. Only being able to save at save points definitely adds a little more challenge, but can be a major inconvenience if one has to search to save. I personally like a middle ground: namely being able to save anywhere on the overworld/towns, but limited to save points whilst inside a dungeon. That's just my preference.
As for experience curves, if it's balanced it's fine. Though it really depends on how many lvls you plan to have.
The weapon does not make the character. I'd honestly concentrate on character design\development a lot to make sure your characters can stand on their own two feet. Whether they're wielding Awesome Sword, Badass Gun or even Rolling Pin, it won't make a major difference if they're written well as long the weapon fits the character. Like Chartley said, it also depends on the setting and world the game takes place in. If in the proper context, both can be used.
demondestiny
889
well, i guess that for the saving it mainly depends on the game and the person creating it as well. Usually if you are making a game that is generally pretty hard and such then it is usually good to have save points and make it harder for the player. Having the ability to save anytime you want is good but it can make the game too easy.
A discussion about swords vs guns isn't really necessary. Having different characters have many different types of weapons can make the game very interesting.
A discussion about swords vs guns isn't really necessary. Having different characters have many different types of weapons can make the game very interesting.
And now for some not-"It Depends" answers!
1) Save almost anywhere. Having to redo a dungeon because I died against the boss and the last save point was godknowswhere isn't difficult, its a one way ticket to "Fuck you game"-ville. Intensity of hatred depends on how the player died ("DOOOMSBEAM!"). Don't allow saving in potential "You're screwed" situations (timed dungeons for example).
If you really, really, don't want the player to save anywhere, go with TMAC's suggestion: Save points in dungeons, save anywhere anywhere else.
2) As long as there isn't significant grinding at any point in the game. Grinding is boring as hell.
3) As long as there's no GUNSWORD (whatever it was called in FF8), I'm good with either. Pick weapons relevent to your story's setting, or at least the most common weapons. FFT had swords and guns and it worked out fine.
1) Save almost anywhere. Having to redo a dungeon because I died against the boss and the last save point was godknowswhere isn't difficult, its a one way ticket to "Fuck you game"-ville. Intensity of hatred depends on how the player died ("DOOOMSBEAM!"). Don't allow saving in potential "You're screwed" situations (timed dungeons for example).
If you really, really, don't want the player to save anywhere, go with TMAC's suggestion: Save points in dungeons, save anywhere anywhere else.
2) As long as there isn't significant grinding at any point in the game. Grinding is boring as hell.
3) As long as there's no GUNSWORD (whatever it was called in FF8), I'm good with either. Pick weapons relevent to your story's setting, or at least the most common weapons. FFT had swords and guns and it worked out fine.
1) Well, I'll be having the "Save Anywhere" and have it disabled in the "season finales" and make a "NEXT SEASON" save. Well, that's for my Silver Sunflowers.
2) Can't answer this much, since my game's a T-RPG.
3) Guns? Swords? Gunblades? I'd rather have all the three since I'm doing a Tactical RPG. I even have Gatling Blaster Lance (similar to Arthur's weapon in Cannon Spike), Pistol Swords, and even Phazor Spears. Again, for the Silver Sunflowers.
2) Can't answer this much, since my game's a T-RPG.
3) Guns? Swords? Gunblades? I'd rather have all the three since I'm doing a Tactical RPG. I even have Gatling Blaster Lance (similar to Arthur's weapon in Cannon Spike), Pistol Swords, and even Phazor Spears. Again, for the Silver Sunflowers.
What do you think is more suited for games, the ability to save anywhere or save points throughout the game?I don't like save points. Generally I want to save wherever I want because I might have to leave or do something and I don't want to have to redo things when that happens. Also, if the game crashes or has bugs, it's nice to fall back on that. Although for that case an auto-save slot would be good too just in case. I always save in a different slot every time, so I've never had the problem of getting screwed over due to one, or at least was able to quickly recover from it. I've never understood why you aren't able to save anywhere you want in a town or friendly castle/whatever in most games. It's not like it'll make the game much easier if you let people save in towns where nothing goes on except NPCs telling you that Corneria is to the left.
Do you think you should level up more easily in the beginning, at the end, or the same experience curve throughout the whole game?I'd say more easily in the beginning. By the end game, you should have enough spells and stuff that gaining EXP wouldn't be as much of an issue as it is in the beginning when your resources and spells are limited.
Swords V.S Guns, what do you think is more preferrable and do you think you could combine both of them.They've had guns for a while. For example, Hand cannons have been around for about 900 years. Most RPGs generally seem to be around the time period where they would have had guns in real life, so they could go together. The problem I see would be balancing them.
In RM* games, streamlining the experience is important. Balance the game so that no (or VERY LITTLE) grinding is needed, allow save-anywhere saving (possibly add SAVE HERE POINTS if something nasty is coming up) and that weapons have obvious differences that aren't just "sword does 20dmg gun does 50dmg lol." In the description be like THIS SWORD ALWAYS HITS" or "GUNS DON'T HIT MUCH BUT PIERCE ARMOR (add a pierce attribute)."
1)Now I know a lot of people have Breath of Fire, I believe it was Dragon Quarters. It might have been all the games. That whenever you needed to save you would need a save token. I personally think this makes the game o hard if the tokens are expensive and hard to find. But I like that idea because I know there are players after every leel they'll save after gaining an item they'll save.
2)I like a basic easy to hard line myself, but a normal-normal line is good. I have also played games where it's very hard in the beggining but easy on later. I think that hard on in the beggining rewards the player in the end as after achieving most of the games plot points they can take it easy, level up moderatley and go trough the game with still a bit of challenge.
This is pertaining to bosses, if you've every played any of the Sonic Adventure games, you'll notice the last boss is usually the easiest while the boss before it is the hardest.
Sonic Adventure 2: Battle
-Bio-Lizard: Hard as Hell for me
-Final Hazard-Easy and enjoyable.
What do you like to see in a boss battle to? Feel free to bring up any other issues as well.
2)I like a basic easy to hard line myself, but a normal-normal line is good. I have also played games where it's very hard in the beggining but easy on later. I think that hard on in the beggining rewards the player in the end as after achieving most of the games plot points they can take it easy, level up moderatley and go trough the game with still a bit of challenge.
This is pertaining to bosses, if you've every played any of the Sonic Adventure games, you'll notice the last boss is usually the easiest while the boss before it is the hardest.
Sonic Adventure 2: Battle
-Bio-Lizard: Hard as Hell for me
-Final Hazard-Easy and enjoyable.
What do you like to see in a boss battle to? Feel free to bring up any other issues as well.
Bosses? A variety is good. Making them be just Fire monster that's weak against Ice so everyone use Ice and you win isn't all that fun. There are different types of bosses you could consider for your game. If you're doing a turn based system, things like multiple enemies, enemy parts, counter attacks, shifting weaknesses and stuff could work.
Think of them as a type of puzzle almost, rather than a normal enemy with 350000 HP instead of 350. For action games, you could have their attack range, style, some patterns (though relying excessively on a pattern will make the player fight them in the exact same way so they could know that they'll win, but it'll drag out), stuff like that.
Think of them as a type of puzzle almost, rather than a normal enemy with 350000 HP instead of 350. For action games, you could have their attack range, style, some patterns (though relying excessively on a pattern will make the player fight them in the exact same way so they could know that they'll win, but it'll drag out), stuff like that.
What do you think is more suited for games, the ability to save anywhere or save points throughout the game?
Do you think you should level up more easily in the beginning, at the end, or the same experience curve throughout the whole game?
Swords V.S Guns, what do you think is more preferrable and do you think you could combine both of them.
1)a.It all depends on the game, to me. In some, it makes complete sense, while in others, being able to save anywhere is more helpful. For example, in the Resident Evil games, being able to save only in specific areas makes it much harder, and as it's a survival game, adding in limited ink ribbons makes it that much harder. Players need to think to make it through the game, and know when to use their items, including their various guns and ammo.
b.
On RPGs, if there's an overworld, then saving anytime there should be alright, but once your in a dungeon, make save points.
2)I think it should either be easy-hard curve, or a medium-medium curve. However, when it comes to bosses, have two bosses at the very end, one extremely hard, and one generally relaxed. That way, once you've said, yes! I beat it, they'll think they'll get creamed in the second fight, only to find out that it isn't as bad as they think. Plus, you can basically "walk" your way to the very end of the game after going through the last major challenge the game has to offer.
3)Personally, I think both should apply, but, it really depends on the setting.
Do you think you should level up more easily in the beginning, at the end, or the same experience curve throughout the whole game?
Swords V.S Guns, what do you think is more preferrable and do you think you could combine both of them.
1)a.It all depends on the game, to me. In some, it makes complete sense, while in others, being able to save anywhere is more helpful. For example, in the Resident Evil games, being able to save only in specific areas makes it much harder, and as it's a survival game, adding in limited ink ribbons makes it that much harder. Players need to think to make it through the game, and know when to use their items, including their various guns and ammo.
b.
On RPGs, if there's an overworld, then saving anytime there should be alright, but once your in a dungeon, make save points.
2)I think it should either be easy-hard curve, or a medium-medium curve. However, when it comes to bosses, have two bosses at the very end, one extremely hard, and one generally relaxed. That way, once you've said, yes! I beat it, they'll think they'll get creamed in the second fight, only to find out that it isn't as bad as they think. Plus, you can basically "walk" your way to the very end of the game after going through the last major challenge the game has to offer.
3)Personally, I think both should apply, but, it really depends on the setting.
author=NoblemanNick link=topic=1097.msg16184#msg16184 date=1210624221
1)Now I know a lot of people have Breath of Fire, I believe it was Dragon Quarters. It might have been all the games. That whenever you needed to save you would need a save token. I personally think this makes the game o hard if the tokens are expensive and hard to find. But I like that idea because I know there are players after every leel they'll save after gaining an item they'll save.
That's the way they want to play the game, don't go out of your way to mess with them. They're saving so they won't have to repeat anything if they die which is even worse than grinding. You're seeing the same old cutscenes with half, if any, of the impact, and everything you did between saving and dying is lost while grinding actually has some results.
If you really don't want people to save anywhere in your dungeons, Wild ARMs 3 (and possibly some of the previous games) had a fantastic system: You could use expendable Gella coins to save anywhere you wanted (and to restart a fight you lost too). There were plenty of coins in the game and you could use, say, three per dungeon and not have any quantity issues. They were usually places a few rooms before the boss too so they served half the function of save points as well (SAVE HERE).
It's interesting what your opinions are.
The overworld and dungeon save things is a great idea. Also, a friend asked me this once, do you think scripted battles are good for a game? For those who don't know what I mean, it means a scripted battle is something you either cannot win or cannot lose. The outcome has already been decided for you, and are parts of the story.
The overworld and dungeon save things is a great idea. Also, a friend asked me this once, do you think scripted battles are good for a game? For those who don't know what I mean, it means a scripted battle is something you either cannot win or cannot lose. The outcome has already been decided for you, and are parts of the story.
In a frame of mind, all boss fights are scripted in that you can't lose (regular fights too, but you can run from those. More importantly is how to handle fights that you can't win. The problem with those is that if it isn't clear if you are supposed to lose, the player could burn a lot of valuable healing items (like FF Elixers) or never "lose" at all in that they quit before they lose, effectivly stopping the game from progressing. There's a few ways to handle the "must lose" fight:
1) Cutscenes! The player drops because the Plot Gods demanded it. Can be annoying in that the player never has a chance to do anything. Alternatively, it could be a fight that the player loses in the first turn via a DOOM EVERYONE spell, not giving the player the chance to waste good stuff.
2) The Lunar Eternal Blue approach: Don't allow the user to waste items. Seal the item command. Take the player's inventory (and give it back later). SOMETHING so that the player can't even use the valuable healing items. Dropping some cues that the player can't win can help with people who would quit since they think they need to win the fight legitimitely without items though.
3) Similar to #1, but the fight you must lose is a fight you actually can win, but when the boss gets weak enough, they blow the party away. Probably the worst method as it makes the whole fight seem pointless if they did win, so a reward for winning would be nice.
4) Don't have any at all? Hmm...
I'm sure there's better idea for how to handle "Can't win" fights. None of them really stand out to me as being the best (#1 is out of the player's control, #2 sidesteps the fourth wall, #3 can cause problems with "why fight at all?", #4 is restricted by what the writer wants to tell, like fighting GOD at level 5)
1) Cutscenes! The player drops because the Plot Gods demanded it. Can be annoying in that the player never has a chance to do anything. Alternatively, it could be a fight that the player loses in the first turn via a DOOM EVERYONE spell, not giving the player the chance to waste good stuff.
2) The Lunar Eternal Blue approach: Don't allow the user to waste items. Seal the item command. Take the player's inventory (and give it back later). SOMETHING so that the player can't even use the valuable healing items. Dropping some cues that the player can't win can help with people who would quit since they think they need to win the fight legitimitely without items though.
3) Similar to #1, but the fight you must lose is a fight you actually can win, but when the boss gets weak enough, they blow the party away. Probably the worst method as it makes the whole fight seem pointless if they did win, so a reward for winning would be nice.
4) Don't have any at all? Hmm...
I'm sure there's better idea for how to handle "Can't win" fights. None of them really stand out to me as being the best (#1 is out of the player's control, #2 sidesteps the fourth wall, #3 can cause problems with "why fight at all?", #4 is restricted by what the writer wants to tell, like fighting GOD at level 5)
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