DEATH OF CHILD TOO MUCH FOR A GAME? HOW DARK/MATURE CAN I GO?

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There is a pivotal moment in the plot of my game, early on, which involves the murder of a young girl about 7-8 yrs. old.

The murder is done by the villain, who is a sadistic cult leader, who forces the main hero to witness the act.

The act leaves the hero of the game with major emotional scars and a burning desire for revenge against this villain.

I *could* change the identity/age of the person who is killed, but there is a theme in the story of childhood vulnerability and the murder of the kid really works with this.

It’s supposed to be a horrible moment, traumatic and terrible, it’s not presented lightly by any means.

I’ll probably only show the actual death as a quick flicker of animation, and describe the aftermath with text on the screen or something, to try and make it more tasteful whilst letting the player know what has happened and why the hero is so upset by it.

Will I have trouble finding places to host the game/project? I know there have certainly been very gory and brutal RPG Maker games before, but would this be too much?

I want the game to be somewhat “R” rated and mature in a tasteful way. There will be sexual content and blood, maybe very discreet non-frontal nudity. There’s no way to do my story without most of this stuff.

The murder of the child is really the only “mature” element that I could change if I absolutely have to, which is why I am asking the question here.

My biggest concern is not having a place to promote the game and possibly host it.
Thanks
Adon237
if i had an allowance, i would give it to rmn
1743
Well, I really haven't seen anything where a child is murdered. It might actually affect people in a bad way, but if this is a pixel game, I am not sure that even the most gruesome sprite details could offend anyone.
Though I have do not have enough knowledge or sufficient makerscore (yet) to make calls.
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
5958
Everything you're describing as traumatic R-rated elements that are being included for the sake of horror, my game does exactly the same things for the sake of comedy. I think you are fine.
LouisCyphre
can't make a bad game if you don't finish any games
4523
Do it, but know two things.

It's your skill as a storyteller and a designer that makes it mature or lends it depth, not the matter at hand. If you're lacking, it will be clear because the scene will become trite or even laughable.

In addition, if you intend to make these a defining moment, then the game can't forget about it. Make sure the consequences are felt, and not just mentioned. At the same time, you can't beat the player over the head with it, lest it lose its impact. Again, this balancing act is a learned skill.

Clearly, if you're asking this, it's because you want this to occur, because you feel the plot or setting of the game calls for it, and is therefore healthy for your story and theme. Just bear in mind that the execution and presentation of the event is the sole definer of that moment's importance and impact, not the fact of what occurs.

EDIT: uh I dunno about "absolutely got it" but if you have a head on your shoulders you can probably derive something usable from this.
Horror doesn't actually have to show the blood, gore or even the act of violence. The implied acts are often more sinister than actually being shown what happened. Although, with what you're saying, you'd be only providing a small scene of the action.

I guess what you can and can't show depends entirely on your target audience. Who are you expecting to play the game?

@Adon: Ever played Corpse Party? That was pretty gruesome for pixels.
The beauty of being indie is that you don't have to worry about alienating a target audience, ESRB ratings, or any of that shit. Just do it and see what happens.
Nothing should be off-limits provided you have the skill to execute such a scene convincingly.

Read and re-read LouisCyphre's post. He absolutely has the right of it.
author=LockeZ
my game does exactly the same things for the sake of comedy.


Same. She's 13 though, not 7. And I think her death is well deserved, accidental or not. I say go for it.
OK thanks everybody. I thought I remembered a post (probably on another forum) talking about how RPGM games can't be too dark, stick to PG-13, I was kinda worried most of the RPG maker community felt that way but apparently not.

author=LouisCyphre
"Just bear in mind that the execution and presentation of the event is the sole definer of that moment's importance and impact, not the fact of what occurs."


Yeah, you're right. Also I think in my mind I was picturing the scene with actual human beings, with 32x32 sprites I might be able to get away with more. Or maybe I might even have play with presentation to make sure it doesn't come across as silly.
Yeah, that was more aimed at extreme gore and sexuality. Death is a natural part of life and as long as it's handled properly, you should be fine.
That and Final Fantasy 6 already did this with the death of Cyan's son, Owen. Whom we presume to be under 10 by his pixelated graphics. And it was also done indirectly by a sadistic villian. So yes, there is precedence that the death of a child has been in video games.
author=LouisCyphre
It's your skill as a storyteller and a designer that makes it mature or lends it depth, not the matter at hand. If you're lacking, it will be clear because the scene will become trite or even laughable.


Yes.

Execution above concept always always always.
As Louis said, the thing is how you present it. In the aforementioned FF6 example, Owen died, but it was not pictured like a horrible dead (yeah sure, poisoning is not good, but there wasn't any gore !). The child just died off screen.

In this case, it depends how much gore you want to show. If you're going to make flying guts and tons of blood, and a fully illustrational 15 slash hit combo on the girl, and her head exploding, while getting burned with demons and angels eating her entrails, then I think it is a little much.

But something like, a discrete "backstab" or something... I think it can be done without problem. Just try to not make it too graphical.
If it's something explained by a story, it's acceptable, for example heavy rain, where your kid will drown by rainwater(come on, think about it, that is a horrible death, slow, and full of fears and false hopes)if you don't make it in time. Even though, it's still acceptable because it's such a big part of the story, everything around is written well..
The tone is also very important, for example taking a humoristic tone could also justify the death of a child.
Also the setting is important... heh..

As long as he reasoning behind it is okay, I say go for it xD
Go for it man.
While im not into M rated games, I do believe in Self-Censorship.
So, if your fine with making a game like that, do it then.
You have a right to make games how you want.

But, you should put a warning in your game, just to caution people.
Any time someone is killed in a game, someone out there will be complaining. As long as people know it's fake, it should be okay. If you're trying to make a realistic game, you may need to change the characters age so less people care. I wouldn't care if someone my own age was killed in a game, so really, don't talk about this with me, I wouldn't tryuly care, just saying.
I'm no fan of censorship, but I do not like things being thrown into movies/games/whatever just for shock value, however that doesn't sound like what is going on here.

Don't ask people's permission to make your own art. If some aspect of your narrative is going to be unsettling, but it is required by the story you are trying to tell, go for it.

Max Payne featured the death of his wife and baby.
Alien vs Predator Requiem (I think) had a father and sons all get killed.

In Max Payne, it was a required element of the story. It didn't happen onscreen, but by the same token you had stages where you followed blood trails and knew you were getting closer to your goal when the volume of your baby's cries and your wife's screams built to their unfortunate crescendo. Max Payne had a good story, and is one of my favorite games of all time.

Alien vs Predator Requiem had a family get killed in the woods while on a camping trip, or something. It wasn't clear enough for me to remember, and my memory borders on the eidetic, and it wasn't required by the story. It was just there to add some more hash marks to the tally of dead bodies.

There is a lesson in there, somewhere.

One of my early projects involved a lot of gore and sexual content (as least implied) as it revolved around catching a serial killer. Before I nixed the game (after realizing my killer was just a gender swap of Buffalo Bill from SOTL) I put in a disclaimer at the beginning of the game about the content.

I also put in the option to view the game in its cut and uncut forms. Yes, it made extra work for me, generating clothed/non clothed versions of any risque content and variations of my gore scenes, but I wanted to give the player options.

The outcome was that I realized those mature elements I was building the game around weren't as required as I thought. The way I re-cut some scenes made them much better.

Also, remember that sometimes it is better not to see everything. Working with 16bit style sprites, violence and gore often become comical. If the death/killing happens off screen, and you present it through sounds or some other means, it could have a much greater impact.

Make the player imagine what is happening, make them see it in their heads. That way, their own fear can color the image in.

Just a suggestion.
Rave
Even newspapers have those nowadays.
290
Well, in my game I'll too have death of kid. Though if it'll being actually shown depends entirely on action of player (my game has multiple endings). And if it isn't too much for YOUR (game's author) taste, then go for it.

Do you think Rockstar cares about what people will say? They didn't care with Bully, they didn't care with Manhunt and they certainly don't care with GTA series (even though IV and V are much more graphical, than say GTA2). The only thing they care is that game is fun to play.

If someone don't want to see it, then he/she just won't play game. Just put a warning. That's all.
KingArthur
( ̄▽ ̄)ノ De-facto operator of the unofficial RMN IRC channel.
1217
To answer the original question of the topic, the answer is you can go as far as your writing abilities will allow you. Good writing will deliver anything you can imagine, but conversely nothing will be able to save terrible writing.

If you think you've got what it takes, go for it with the fury of a thousand suns.
It isn't that problematic, considering any sane person know that murdering anyone is bad. There is no murder apologist, at least not to the extent that it becomes problematic to murder's victim or people associated with the victim.
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