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HOW DO PEOPLE IN THE COMMUNITY HANDLE NEGATIVITY?
Posts
MarkusT
2
MarkusT
View playlists
CloseI was just wondering how anyone on here or anywhere in the indie game making community or the RPG Maker community handles negativity?
How do you deal with things that set you off?
How do you deal with just.. bad things that come your way during the course of making your game?
Someone calls you some names that cut deep... or they accuse you of something.. or they trash talk your work.
How do you handle any of those things?
I often wonder this, as I can be rather fragile at times, and tend to just want to scream and give up often times when I'm given crap at any point in time.
I dunno if I am alone on this, or if others have dealt with it, and if so.. so they deal with it.. how they handle it.
How do you deal with things that set you off?
How do you deal with just.. bad things that come your way during the course of making your game?
Someone calls you some names that cut deep... or they accuse you of something.. or they trash talk your work.
How do you handle any of those things?
I often wonder this, as I can be rather fragile at times, and tend to just want to scream and give up often times when I'm given crap at any point in time.
I dunno if I am alone on this, or if others have dealt with it, and if so.. so they deal with it.. how they handle it.
ubon
66
I'm going to reiterate something I said in a different thread like a minute ago:
you are not your project.
a lot of people in the community seem to forget this, and so when someone criticizes something they worked on, the critique can seem rude, malicious, even spiteful. receiving criticism is a skill that can be developed, like a lot of things, and one of the things that an amateur developer should work on is the ability to distance him or herself emotionally from the things they produce.
remember that your work is not perfect, and neither are you, and both you and your work are separate things. I've given harsh criticism on games in the past, but only rarely has that extended to the creator himself (and I've been very, very clear on the few times that it has). likewise, I've received some very sharp criticism on things I've shown off in the past, and I can't deny that it stings for a second. the secret, though, is recognizing that that sting comes from your own pride and not whatever nastiness you'd like to ascribe to the person giving the criticism. once you recognize that, you can cut through to the truth at the center of the critique and use that to improve your work.
criticism is not a form of abuse. it's a form of collaboration, and a sign of respect.
you are not your project.
a lot of people in the community seem to forget this, and so when someone criticizes something they worked on, the critique can seem rude, malicious, even spiteful. receiving criticism is a skill that can be developed, like a lot of things, and one of the things that an amateur developer should work on is the ability to distance him or herself emotionally from the things they produce.
remember that your work is not perfect, and neither are you, and both you and your work are separate things. I've given harsh criticism on games in the past, but only rarely has that extended to the creator himself (and I've been very, very clear on the few times that it has). likewise, I've received some very sharp criticism on things I've shown off in the past, and I can't deny that it stings for a second. the secret, though, is recognizing that that sting comes from your own pride and not whatever nastiness you'd like to ascribe to the person giving the criticism. once you recognize that, you can cut through to the truth at the center of the critique and use that to improve your work.
criticism is not a form of abuse. it's a form of collaboration, and a sign of respect.
MarkusT
2
author=mawkDid I ever at any point say anything about criticism?
I'm going to reiterate something I said in a different thread like a minute ago:
you are not your project.
a lot of people in the community seem to forget this, and so when someone criticizes something they worked on, the critique can seem rude, malicious, even spiteful. receiving criticism is a skill that can be developed, like a lot of things, and one of the things that an amateur developer should work on is the ability to distance him or herself emotionally from the things they produce.
remember that your work is not perfect, and neither are you, and both you and your work are separate things. I've given harsh criticism on games in the past, but only rarely has that extended to the creator himself (and I've been very, very clear on the few times that it has). likewise, I've received some very sharp criticism on things I've shown off in the past, and I can't deny that it stings for a second. the secret, though, is recognizing that that sting comes from your own pride and not whatever nastiness you'd like to ascribe to the person giving the criticism. once you recognize that, you can cut through to the truth at the center of the critique and use that to improve your work.
criticism is not a form of abuse. it's a form of collaboration, and a sign of respect.
Nope.
I mean general jackassery.
I mean just straight up trash talk.
Or whiny crap.
I also asked how people who find themselves in that situation deal with it.
ubon
66
to be frank, I don't trust most of the community to tell actual criticism from "straight up trash talk", for reasons I've already given. it's much easier to pretend someone is being an asshole on purpose than to admit that you might need to make changes.
MarkusT
2
author=mawkI have made lots of changes..
to be frank, I don't trust most of the community to tell actual criticism from "straight up trash talk", for reasons I've already given. it's much easier to pretend someone is being an asshole on purpose than to admit that you might need to make changes.
Believe me.
And now and then there is trash talk.. maybe you don't see it, but it happens.
I know someone who left this site because of crap from people.
I can't say who they are, cause that's private.. and it's not up to me to discuss it.
But it happens.
I'm not here to keep going back and forth with someone who for all intents and purposes will NEVER agree with me, and who I will likely never agree with.
Now you can keep going, and you can keep trying to convince me of otherwise.
But it's not gonna change anything.
Let's agree to disagree.
And I await others who might respond, who do know what it's like, and can actually tell me how they deal with it.. which is what I'm looking for... not a debate with someone who's never going to agree.
ubon
66
this disproportionately defensive reaction to simple talking points is exactly the kind of thing I'm talking about. you're taking what I say as an attack, because engaging with my points candidly is more difficult than pretending I'm disagreeing for the sake of disagreeing.
this is exactly the kind of standpoint that will make it much harder for you when receiving criticism, and I encourage you to re-assess how you approach this discussion as well as others.
for my own part, I did go into how I handle harsh criticism. this is why it's a good idea to read what people say, even if you disagree with it.
this is exactly the kind of standpoint that will make it much harder for you when receiving criticism, and I encourage you to re-assess how you approach this discussion as well as others.
for my own part, I did go into how I handle harsh criticism. this is why it's a good idea to read what people say, even if you disagree with it.
author=MarkusT
Did I ever at any point say anything about criticism?
Nope.
I mean general jackassery.
I mean just straight up trash talk.
Or whiny crap...
To be fair, you sound like the type who mistakes criticism for "jackassery", etc. so I'd say Mawk's post was right on the money...
Just one look at your post history is enough proof of this. =P
author=MarkusT
Anyhow, I have trouble with criticism.
And some how I feel that making fun of someone's work and insulting it with "looks like cosplay Phantasy Star" is far from constructive.
Heh;
MarkusT
2
I made this topic to find out how others might deal with things.
And all I keep getting from you is basically "get over it", and no it's not your exact words, but that's what you're basically saying.. is to get over it.
And that's not something I am capable of.
And I refuse to sit here and keep debating things, when this is NOT why I made this topic.
Okay fine!
How would you feel if someone called YOU annoying, and then could not even tell you specifically what you did wrong, and instead runs off and no longer wants to talk about it?
How the HELL do you deal with that?! Huh?
I can't improve myself if all they can say is "your mannerisms bug me" and they can't even say specifically what the hell you did exactly?
Then there is the whiny crap.
"I don't like how you did this, it's distracting, get rid of it!"
And it goes against what you're going for?
I wanna look at them and go "are you making this f*ckin game?! NO! I am! and if you want a game exactly how you f*ckin want it, you make a game!!!!!"
Here is another one "your coloring is horrible" that's it.. nothing else.. just.. it's horrible....
How do you deal with THAT?!
Don't tell me!
I already know!
"your game is not you"
Right?!
The crap you keep saying makes it sound like you defend the ones who can't be nice in their wordings, they can just say junk.. and not really offer any help at all.
Which to me translate basically to "get over it".
And no I am not mistaking basic criticism for jackassery.
It actually happens.
I would love to prove it..
I just can't... it never happen here is why.. a lot of it happen somewhere else a ways back.
And recently someone set me off....
..I'm just looking for helpful answers... that's all.
And all I keep getting from you is basically "get over it", and no it's not your exact words, but that's what you're basically saying.. is to get over it.
And that's not something I am capable of.
And I refuse to sit here and keep debating things, when this is NOT why I made this topic.
Okay fine!
How would you feel if someone called YOU annoying, and then could not even tell you specifically what you did wrong, and instead runs off and no longer wants to talk about it?
How the HELL do you deal with that?! Huh?
I can't improve myself if all they can say is "your mannerisms bug me" and they can't even say specifically what the hell you did exactly?
Then there is the whiny crap.
"I don't like how you did this, it's distracting, get rid of it!"
And it goes against what you're going for?
I wanna look at them and go "are you making this f*ckin game?! NO! I am! and if you want a game exactly how you f*ckin want it, you make a game!!!!!"
Here is another one "your coloring is horrible" that's it.. nothing else.. just.. it's horrible....
How do you deal with THAT?!
Don't tell me!
I already know!
"your game is not you"
Right?!
The crap you keep saying makes it sound like you defend the ones who can't be nice in their wordings, they can just say junk.. and not really offer any help at all.
Which to me translate basically to "get over it".
And no I am not mistaking basic criticism for jackassery.
It actually happens.
I would love to prove it..
I just can't... it never happen here is why.. a lot of it happen somewhere else a ways back.
And recently someone set me off....
..I'm just looking for helpful answers... that's all.
I just try and remember to not take things that seriously. If someone offers criticism and I decide they've made a valid point, I take it to heart and try to improve. If I disagree, I skip the advice. If someone's a jackass, I ignore them because it's the Internet and you can ignore people. Others' opinions are worth what you think they're worth. Now, if you're trying to improve, it will serve you well to keep your ears open, but if someone's just being an ass, screw 'em! Jeez. No one here knows anyone else so there's no reason to take anything personally.
EDIT: what are you expecting? If someone's being an ass, ignore it. You don't owe anyone anything. If someone says I'm wrong and I don't agree, I just ignore it.
EDIT: what are you expecting? If someone's being an ass, ignore it. You don't owe anyone anything. If someone says I'm wrong and I don't agree, I just ignore it.
ubon
66
MarkusT:
you do, in fact, strike me as someone with an "it" that he needs to get over.
if that's what you've derived from what I've been saying up until now, though, you couldn't be more wrong. please feel free to rejoin this discussion once you've come to terms with things and can see things as they are, instead of as you want them to be. you are not a games martyr.
you do, in fact, strike me as someone with an "it" that he needs to get over.
if that's what you've derived from what I've been saying up until now, though, you couldn't be more wrong. please feel free to rejoin this discussion once you've come to terms with things and can see things as they are, instead of as you want them to be. you are not a games martyr.
MarkusT
2
Thanks slashphoenix.
That's pretty much the response i was hoping for.
Actual guidance.
And advice.
After awhile it's get's rather difficult to ignore is all.
I wish it was as simple as it is .. like when you're trying to get to sleep and all you have to do is count sheep, and you end up falling asleep.
I even tried that once lol >_<
Someone ticked me off and I counted sheep..
I thought "it works for falling asleep, maybe it will work with this?"
Suffice it to say, it did not help.
Some things just kinda linger in your mind.
But thanks for the reply, I appreciate it.
That's pretty much the response i was hoping for.
Actual guidance.
And advice.
After awhile it's get's rather difficult to ignore is all.
I wish it was as simple as it is .. like when you're trying to get to sleep and all you have to do is count sheep, and you end up falling asleep.
I even tried that once lol >_<
Someone ticked me off and I counted sheep..
I thought "it works for falling asleep, maybe it will work with this?"
Suffice it to say, it did not help.
Some things just kinda linger in your mind.
But thanks for the reply, I appreciate it.
ubon
66
it's very convenient to be able to tell yourself in any given situation that you're not at fault and the other person can be ignored. it's just that things are rarely that simple.
but this is the internet, where (if you want to) you can shut out everything you don't like to hear and retreat into a little shell where everything is okay and nothing has to change. I feel sorry for the people who go that route, but what can I do? I'm glad you got the comforting platitude that you started this topic in order to receive.
but this is the internet, where (if you want to) you can shut out everything you don't like to hear and retreat into a little shell where everything is okay and nothing has to change. I feel sorry for the people who go that route, but what can I do? I'm glad you got the comforting platitude that you started this topic in order to receive.
MarkusT
2
Well, I'm not retreating.
Look I appreciate it if you're trying to help me.
But so far nothing you have said to me, helps me.
And slash phoenix said ignore people, but I hate to just straight up ignore people any time they upset me.
I came close to doing that the other day, but then I released the person who responded was trying to help me and I had just misread what he posted.. I felt dumb for that.
But I am sure some people have ways of coping.. I can't be the only one who feels like this.
I really wish I was one of those people that nothing bugs them... I really really do.
And I wanna go into detail as to why I can't just ignore things.. but then people will REALLY avoid me.
I really like working on the games I work on.
I love creating things.
And I wish what ever I make was perfect for people... but it's not.. because of conflicting tastes mostly.
But I was mainly trying to figure out how to deal with being called annoying...
It got deep under my skin.
It's not the first time I been called annoying, and I could not figure out what I did on both accounts, that made me out to be so annoying.
Specially when I don't even know what I did exactly.
That gets to me a lot.
Look I appreciate it if you're trying to help me.
But so far nothing you have said to me, helps me.
And slash phoenix said ignore people, but I hate to just straight up ignore people any time they upset me.
I came close to doing that the other day, but then I released the person who responded was trying to help me and I had just misread what he posted.. I felt dumb for that.
But I am sure some people have ways of coping.. I can't be the only one who feels like this.
I really wish I was one of those people that nothing bugs them... I really really do.
And I wanna go into detail as to why I can't just ignore things.. but then people will REALLY avoid me.
I really like working on the games I work on.
I love creating things.
And I wish what ever I make was perfect for people... but it's not.. because of conflicting tastes mostly.
But I was mainly trying to figure out how to deal with being called annoying...
It got deep under my skin.
It's not the first time I been called annoying, and I could not figure out what I did on both accounts, that made me out to be so annoying.
Specially when I don't even know what I did exactly.
That gets to me a lot.
ubon
66
my bad, I guess. I had taken this for a general topic on the subject of receiving harsh criticism when really it's just one man's very public crisis.
MarkusT
2
It was never really about criticism... it never really was.
I was honest when I said "how do you deal with jerks".
I'm starting to think maybe this person who called me annoying just expecting me to type differently or something.
I never wanted to straight up say "some ass called me annoying, how do I deal with?!".
But it's out now.. and they're probably gonna read it.. ugh.
I just needed to know how to deal with this.
Forget it?
Ignore it and move on?
Like I said, it's not the first time I have dealt with this.
And they can never tell me exactly what I did wrong.
So I just wanna know what I did, and how to correct it.
And since I can't figure out what I did that was so annoying, I am trying to figure out how do deal with it.
I was basically indirectly asking people how I can deal with it.
I don't really have friends who I can talk to about it..
Last person who I thought was a friend, did not really want to discuss such things.
Guess it might have made them feel awkward.
Maybe I was being awkward?
I was honest when I said "how do you deal with jerks".
I'm starting to think maybe this person who called me annoying just expecting me to type differently or something.
I never wanted to straight up say "some ass called me annoying, how do I deal with?!".
But it's out now.. and they're probably gonna read it.. ugh.
I just needed to know how to deal with this.
Forget it?
Ignore it and move on?
Like I said, it's not the first time I have dealt with this.
And they can never tell me exactly what I did wrong.
So I just wanna know what I did, and how to correct it.
And since I can't figure out what I did that was so annoying, I am trying to figure out how do deal with it.
I was basically indirectly asking people how I can deal with it.
I don't really have friends who I can talk to about it..
Last person who I thought was a friend, did not really want to discuss such things.
Guess it might have made them feel awkward.
Maybe I was being awkward?
seita
455
Step one would be to find the difference between criticism and unwarranted negativity.
My personal rule is, when you're given feedback and criticism, take it with a grain of salt. Everyone plays games differently, so their opinion may not be valid for your game. You know what you want your game to be. On the other hand, if their feedback makes some sense to you, or more than one person voices the same opinion, you may want to rethink your approach.
Don't immediately drop everything you're doing or planning and change your game because someone thinks it should be done differently. Hold fast onto your plan. Instead of changing it, make it better.
Now if it's just negativity, you shouldn't just forget it completely, but you shouldn't let it affect you either. Just realize that there's a reason why they're being a debbie downer. They didn't like something. From what they're saying, try to get a good idea of why they're saying it. You can decide then if you want to ignore them completely or improve your game where they think it's lacking.
Bottom line is, don't let it get to you, just use it to improve.
My personal rule is, when you're given feedback and criticism, take it with a grain of salt. Everyone plays games differently, so their opinion may not be valid for your game. You know what you want your game to be. On the other hand, if their feedback makes some sense to you, or more than one person voices the same opinion, you may want to rethink your approach.
Don't immediately drop everything you're doing or planning and change your game because someone thinks it should be done differently. Hold fast onto your plan. Instead of changing it, make it better.
Now if it's just negativity, you shouldn't just forget it completely, but you shouldn't let it affect you either. Just realize that there's a reason why they're being a debbie downer. They didn't like something. From what they're saying, try to get a good idea of why they're saying it. You can decide then if you want to ignore them completely or improve your game where they think it's lacking.
Bottom line is, don't let it get to you, just use it to improve.
MarkusT
2
Well, how would you feel if someone told you that you were annoying, but really could not tell you exactly how you're annoying.. like no real details so you can change and not be annoying?
It's got me irked.
It's got me irked.
Sated
4005
If people are being straight-up cunts then I'm usually a cunt back to them. I take great pride in the fact that I'm usually better at trashing other people's things than other people are at trashing my things. If people are offering critical advice then I generally try to explain why I have done something the way I have; if I can't adequately explain it then I probably need to give that area of my project a re-think, but if I can adequately explain it then I chalk it up to personal taste and move on. Never expect to please everybody.
EDIT:
Ask. If they can't explain it, they're either wrong or their opinion is of no consequence.
EDIT:
Well, how would you feel if someone told you that you were annoying, but really could not tell you exactly how you're annoying.. like no real details so you can change and not be annoying?
Ask. If they can't explain it, they're either wrong or their opinion is of no consequence.
