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WHAT'S A GOOD LENGTH FOR A DEMO?
Posts
MoonWolfV
2954
MoonWolfV
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CloseYou might remember my topic I posted when I was asking about a title for my game. This is the same game.
It's still called Planet Guardians because I can't be bothered thinking up a new title right now but the main game is coming along quite nicely.
I'm at a bit of a toss up now if I should try uploading a demo or should I actually get the whole thing finished since I'm on a bit of a roll now. It's probably at the halfway point now where they are now fully aware of the villain's intentions and are readying themselves to brace for an attack, while still trying to complete their other quest.
If I did put up a demo now, there isn't much in the way of armour and weapons but one of the characters magic can more than make up for this right now.
It's still called Planet Guardians because I can't be bothered thinking up a new title right now but the main game is coming along quite nicely.
I'm at a bit of a toss up now if I should try uploading a demo or should I actually get the whole thing finished since I'm on a bit of a roll now. It's probably at the halfway point now where they are now fully aware of the villain's intentions and are readying themselves to brace for an attack, while still trying to complete their other quest.
If I did put up a demo now, there isn't much in the way of armour and weapons but one of the characters magic can more than make up for this right now.
TDS
1453
Depends on what you need to get from your audience. Do you want people to pay attention to your game and comment on it? If so, you might want to have a full demo that showcases your game properly or a finished product, about 30 minutes to an hour is usually good.
However, if what you need to is to find out whether or not your game works outside of a testing environment (Features you are using that are in no other games or you have no access to data to properly fine tune them.) Then a short demo might suffice, of course it will still be the first impression most people will get and you could risk putting them off. I personally think the risk is worth it if you're trying new things.
Most of the time a demo is not necessary, a few images or a video could provide an equally good buzz for your project to prime it so when it's done people will already be looking forward to playing it.
However, if what you need to is to find out whether or not your game works outside of a testing environment (Features you are using that are in no other games or you have no access to data to properly fine tune them.) Then a short demo might suffice, of course it will still be the first impression most people will get and you could risk putting them off. I personally think the risk is worth it if you're trying new things.
Most of the time a demo is not necessary, a few images or a video could provide an equally good buzz for your project to prime it so when it's done people will already be looking forward to playing it.
Milennin
2060
A minimum of 10 minutes or so, up to a maximum of an hour I'd say.
If you make people play through more than an hour of your unfinished game, they might not be willing to play through all that again once your game comes out. I guess it depends, they probably will if your game is fun enough.xD
If you make people play through more than an hour of your unfinished game, they might not be willing to play through all that again once your game comes out. I guess it depends, they probably will if your game is fun enough.xD
eplipswich
2728
It depends on how long your full game will be. If your full game will be about 6 hours' long, then I suppose 30 minutes of demo should be good enough. But it has to probably end at a climax or at a satisfying point such that people will be eager to wait for more of the game.
If you're making a demo, you want to make sure the player gets a little taste of the all of the important aspects of your game. If your game has a strong story, let them play some story. If your game has a strategic combat system, make sure they get to play with it a lot.
By the way, your demo does not have to start at the very beginning of your game. As RPGs regularly have slow beginnings with long intros and backstories, starting somewhere faster-paced with more going on might do more to suck players in and make them want more. A 30 minute demo with 10 minutes of intro scenes is going to be awful. Let them get to the action and end on a high note or a cliffhanger.
Personally, I like short demos that do just enough to reveal new gameplay or an interesting story. Since you often have to play the demo part over again if you play the full game, I don't want to sink 2 hours into a demo. This is another good reason to set the demo a little further into your game - players who have played the demo won't have to immediately replay the same part when they switch to the full version.
By the way, your demo does not have to start at the very beginning of your game. As RPGs regularly have slow beginnings with long intros and backstories, starting somewhere faster-paced with more going on might do more to suck players in and make them want more. A 30 minute demo with 10 minutes of intro scenes is going to be awful. Let them get to the action and end on a high note or a cliffhanger.
Personally, I like short demos that do just enough to reveal new gameplay or an interesting story. Since you often have to play the demo part over again if you play the full game, I don't want to sink 2 hours into a demo. This is another good reason to set the demo a little further into your game - players who have played the demo won't have to immediately replay the same part when they switch to the full version.
I'd say 1/3 to 1/4 of the total game length. If you have a 10 or so hour epic, 3 hours is plenty. If you have 40+ hour super-epic (which most audiences hate), giving them a 10 hour demo to see if they like it helps people get into the flow of what they're likely to expect (but most people won't play that long a demo unless it's clear you're working towards complete, and giving them the extra just so they won't get bored with the 30 minutes you gave them earlier). Thirty minutes works great for a standard game, which is two hours or so?
If you have ten minutes of intro, it really depends on how interesting/exciting the cutscenes are. KH2 apparently held audience interest for way longer than that, but if you've got some stupid premise. "The evil demon wanted to take over the world" plus evil demonic destruction (for 10 of 30 min) probably wouldn't cut it.
If you have ten minutes of intro, it really depends on how interesting/exciting the cutscenes are. KH2 apparently held audience interest for way longer than that, but if you've got some stupid premise. "The evil demon wanted to take over the world" plus evil demonic destruction (for 10 of 30 min) probably wouldn't cut it.
MoonWolfV
2954
I think I might wait until I've finished the game. Upload it and make a point of asking for feedback, definitely about monster stats and such, some I find a bit too hard or easy but I'm not sure if this is just me. I find it hard when you've made the game and you're the one testing it. It often looks fine by your eyes but when other people play it, there can be lots of errors you didn't see.
It's about 2 hours length right now. I feel as it's about halfway through, maybe more. I've got the main plot all sorted out but I embellish bits and pieces when I feel it's needed.
I'm also thinking of begin throw in some harsher difficulty spikes as one character mops the floor with her magic. She's sort of meant to be like that but some battles are just becoming too easy now.
It's about 2 hours length right now. I feel as it's about halfway through, maybe more. I've got the main plot all sorted out but I embellish bits and pieces when I feel it's needed.
I'm also thinking of begin throw in some harsher difficulty spikes as one character mops the floor with her magic. She's sort of meant to be like that but some battles are just becoming too easy now.
Caligula
0
author=MoonWolfV
You might remember my topic I posted when I was asking about a title for my game. This is the same game.
It's still called Planet Guardians because I can't be bothered thinking up a new title right now but the main game is coming along quite nicely.
I'm at a bit of a toss up now if I should try uploading a demo or should I actually get the whole thing finished since I'm on a bit of a roll now. It's probably at the halfway point now where they are now fully aware of the villain's intentions and are readying themselves to brace for an attack, while still trying to complete their other quest.
If I did put up a demo now, there isn't much in the way of armour and weapons but one of the characters magic can more than make up for this right now.
Fuck the demo.
Demos are reserved for people who have neither the will nor ambition to actually finish anything.
author=Caligula
Fuck the demo.
Demos are reserved for people who have neither the will nor ambition to actually finish anything.
Demos are actually kind of necessary, or at least they should be something in the early stage of development. Because demos don't necessarily reflect the final product, they allow people to give more helpful feedback on how to improve the game. If you release it all in one go, though, your game will be either liked or disliked, and people will be less inclined to make offers for improvements because the game is "done".
MoonWolfV
2954
Here's my idea for when to call it off if you believe demos are necessary. Here's a list of what has happened so far and what's to come. As you can see, it isn't going to be an overly long game.
Tell me where you think an appropriate point for the demo to end should be. And also, what is a good way to finish a demo. I don't like those one's which just shove you to a game over screen.
Also. To bring up the idea again. Are there any new ideas for a name, now that I've pretty much got the whole plot summed up?
1. Main character works in the royal library unaware of the king's doings.
2. Main character meets up with a supporting member in the library
3. After a monster attack they flee the city
4. They head to the next town to meet up with their friends.
5. They head north to the neighboring kingdom
6. They learn about the location of several crystals and collect each one.
7. After acquiring the last crystal the king is waiting outside the cave, smashes their heads in and takes all the crystals
8. They head back and let the Queen of the other kingdom know of the bad news.
9. They go to a sage under the pretense of wanting to know more about his amateur astronomy when really wanting to use his tower to check enemy movements.
This is where I am at so far, any thing after this hasn't been done yet
10. They notice that a small group of the enemy soldiers. Including a monster who they've met twice before is approaching the Queen's kingdom. They encounter her, and she soon joins the party.
11. She's very depressed and asks for them to kill her, just to put her out of her misery.
12. They get told of a priestess who might know the power to turn her back to a human.
13. They go and meet her and she tells them that turning her back to a human won't be too hard but she'd be just a vulnerable as before but if they can gather these artifacts for a powerful spell, the king won't be able to lay a finger on her without suffering horribly.
14. The party fights four battles to gain the items needed (as well as needing other items to complete the items.
15. They return to the priestess and she performs the ritual. A boss battle comes up where she has to fight herself, much like Cecil in Final Fantasy IV.
16. Transformed in to a very powerful character (starts at level 1 or something like that but levels up very quickly) she and the team begin the journey back to the initial kingdom to find that the castle has changed as well as the king (as he has been warped by his use of dark magic)
17. They storm the castle and fight the king. There is a first final boss battle and then a fake one (like when fighting Yu Yevon at the end of Final Fantasy X) where after this they seal the crystals away. If you did transform her, there is another fake battle against the king with only her (I call it fake because of her purity, now shining, his dark magic can't do a thing to her)
18. The party seals the crystals away (doing a better job than how they were sealed last time) and then the Epilogue begins.
Like I mentioned earlier. There may be so messes with the monster stats and the main feature of the game is going to be that nearly every item, aside from potions etc, is going to have to be crafted by your team.
Tell me where you think an appropriate point for the demo to end should be. And also, what is a good way to finish a demo. I don't like those one's which just shove you to a game over screen.
Also. To bring up the idea again. Are there any new ideas for a name, now that I've pretty much got the whole plot summed up?
1. Main character works in the royal library unaware of the king's doings.
2. Main character meets up with a supporting member in the library
3. After a monster attack they flee the city
4. They head to the next town to meet up with their friends.
5. They head north to the neighboring kingdom
6. They learn about the location of several crystals and collect each one.
7. After acquiring the last crystal the king is waiting outside the cave, smashes their heads in and takes all the crystals
8. They head back and let the Queen of the other kingdom know of the bad news.
9. They go to a sage under the pretense of wanting to know more about his amateur astronomy when really wanting to use his tower to check enemy movements.
This is where I am at so far, any thing after this hasn't been done yet
10. They notice that a small group of the enemy soldiers. Including a monster who they've met twice before is approaching the Queen's kingdom. They encounter her, and she soon joins the party.
11. She's very depressed and asks for them to kill her, just to put her out of her misery.
12. They get told of a priestess who might know the power to turn her back to a human.
13. They go and meet her and she tells them that turning her back to a human won't be too hard but she'd be just a vulnerable as before but if they can gather these artifacts for a powerful spell, the king won't be able to lay a finger on her without suffering horribly.
14. The party fights four battles to gain the items needed (as well as needing other items to complete the items.
15. They return to the priestess and she performs the ritual. A boss battle comes up where she has to fight herself, much like Cecil in Final Fantasy IV.
16. Transformed in to a very powerful character (starts at level 1 or something like that but levels up very quickly) she and the team begin the journey back to the initial kingdom to find that the castle has changed as well as the king (as he has been warped by his use of dark magic)
17. They storm the castle and fight the king. There is a first final boss battle and then a fake one (like when fighting Yu Yevon at the end of Final Fantasy X) where after this they seal the crystals away. If you did transform her, there is another fake battle against the king with only her (I call it fake because of her purity, now shining, his dark magic can't do a thing to her)
18. The party seals the crystals away (doing a better job than how they were sealed last time) and then the Epilogue begins.
Like I mentioned earlier. There may be so messes with the monster stats and the main feature of the game is going to be that nearly every item, aside from potions etc, is going to have to be crafted by your team.
VideoWizard
2842
7. After acquiring the last crystal the king is waiting outside the cave, smashes their heads in and takes all the crystals
That seems like a good time as any. The game isn't over, but it leaves the audience wondering just what is about to happen to the world. Probably going from point 3 to point 7 would be best for a demo.
That seems like a good time as any. The game isn't over, but it leaves the audience wondering just what is about to happen to the world. Probably going from point 3 to point 7 would be best for a demo.
I define it as it is: Demonstration. A "good length" is purely subjective. I have a project that's essentially an animated comic with a demo that could probably be finished in <5mins without skipping the (brief) dialogue, but the purpose was met: to demonstrate what the project plays and looks like in a more immersive and interactive fashion than simply showing screenshots.
So it really just comes down to what you're wanting to demonstrate to the audience. The game as a whole? Specific features? Specific areas? Character development or interaction?
How long the demo lasts should really only be determined by how long it takes you to demonstrate whatever it is you're trying to showcase.
So it really just comes down to what you're wanting to demonstrate to the audience. The game as a whole? Specific features? Specific areas? Character development or interaction?
How long the demo lasts should really only be determined by how long it takes you to demonstrate whatever it is you're trying to showcase.
Caligula
0
author=Ratty524
they allow people to give more helpful feedback on how to improve the game.
You use playtesters for that.
Personally, I don't like the idea of a fixed demo, and letting people wait until the finished product.
That's why I believe in constant updates. The demo should be like, "okay, now I've added the next town and three cutscenes" instead of "Okay, that's your 30 min demo. I'm not gonna give any indication that I'm even still working on this game. See you in three years (maybe)."
So a good length for a demo? Well, unless you've got the game complete so far and want to give people a nice trial version, the answer really is "whatever you've got."
That's why I believe in constant updates. The demo should be like, "okay, now I've added the next town and three cutscenes" instead of "Okay, that's your 30 min demo. I'm not gonna give any indication that I'm even still working on this game. See you in three years (maybe)."
So a good length for a demo? Well, unless you've got the game complete so far and want to give people a nice trial version, the answer really is "whatever you've got."
MoonWolfV
2954
I'm finding my hardest part for now is restraining myself not to keep on adding more to the plot until I have my demo ready to put up. After I've done that then I'll put up regular updates, probably every two or three days when something significant is added to the game. I assure you, this game isn't going to be one of those, takes 10 years to get around to finishing it, ones.
Another question I was thinking of last night. What is a good way to end the demo? I'm not planning on having it cut to the title screen but having it fade to black, putting questions about what will happen? Just two or three at the most, not so long it gets boring.
I've also thought of a better title for the game now and I'd be interested to know what you guys think. I'm thinking of changing it from "The planet guardians" to "The portal to hell" since that is what the king has set up and is a major part of the plot. I was tossing up whither to use the word Hell or Tartarus to make it more interesting, but I think the second choice would leave it a bit confusing.
Another question I was thinking of last night. What is a good way to end the demo? I'm not planning on having it cut to the title screen but having it fade to black, putting questions about what will happen? Just two or three at the most, not so long it gets boring.
I've also thought of a better title for the game now and I'd be interested to know what you guys think. I'm thinking of changing it from "The planet guardians" to "The portal to hell" since that is what the king has set up and is a major part of the plot. I was tossing up whither to use the word Hell or Tartarus to make it more interesting, but I think the second choice would leave it a bit confusing.
Novalux
618
Do you have a name for the portal instead of just "the portal to hell"? Because "the portal to hell" sounds kinda iffy. I think it should be something more like "Demonic Rift" to spice it up a notch. Maybe use a name for the portal and the name of the monster race (if there is one).
As far as the demo goes, it's like others have said: it doesn't necessarily have to be long or short, just something that shows off your game. If I had to pick from the number list though, I'd say probably from 3-7. Start off with a bang to reel in the players, and end with suspense to keep them wanting more.
As far as the demo goes, it's like others have said: it doesn't necessarily have to be long or short, just something that shows off your game. If I had to pick from the number list though, I'd say probably from 3-7. Start off with a bang to reel in the players, and end with suspense to keep them wanting more.
MoonWolfV
2954
Well as far as the intro goes, it doesn't really have a name. The king simply asks his high mage if their "experiment" is ready.
I'd like some advice on how I'd begin the intro if it doesn't start at the beginning of the game. From the point where you suggested (here's some plot spoilers)
The king has extended his magic turning everybody in town in to monsters, not exactly an invasion, but still pretty horrible. They rush through the town and are accosted by guards who've been turned in to undead and tell the hero that it doesn't matter to them if he's living or dead, the king has ordered no one to enter or leave the city. They fight them and leave the city heading for the village some distance away.
I'd like some advice on how I'd begin the intro if it doesn't start at the beginning of the game. From the point where you suggested (here's some plot spoilers)
The king has extended his magic turning everybody in town in to monsters, not exactly an invasion, but still pretty horrible. They rush through the town and are accosted by guards who've been turned in to undead and tell the hero that it doesn't matter to them if he's living or dead, the king has ordered no one to enter or leave the city. They fight them and leave the city heading for the village some distance away.
Novalux
618
I'm kinda new to the process myself, but I was thinking that you would start off meeting the supporting char in the library, and then you hear something outside. The chars go outside and find that the townsfolk are turning into monsters. You would have to run/ fight (good place to introduce players to fighting mechanics) your way out of the city. make sure intense music is playing in the background and there is a sense of urgency.
OR
Depending on whether you want the chars to know who caused the event, you could have the chars meet with the king. During their meeting the king would turn the guards into monsters and make an escape. Something like that, anyway.
OR
Depending on whether you want the chars to know who caused the event, you could have the chars meet with the king. During their meeting the king would turn the guards into monsters and make an escape. Something like that, anyway.
Toby Fox's demo for Undertale is, in my opinion, a good example of everything that should be in a demo:
http://undertale.com/
You can play it for yourself, and I think you'll agree; the demo introduces all of the game's various mechanics, with enough variety to keep the player engaged, it's the right length to really get the player invested, and it even manages to tell a complete and interesting story in a very short amount of time. On top of all of that, the ending definitely leaves the player wanting more.
http://undertale.com/
You can play it for yourself, and I think you'll agree; the demo introduces all of the game's various mechanics, with enough variety to keep the player engaged, it's the right length to really get the player invested, and it even manages to tell a complete and interesting story in a very short amount of time. On top of all of that, the ending definitely leaves the player wanting more.
