IS IT STILL DISCRIMINATION IF IT'S EQUAL?

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Trihan
"It's more like a big ball of wibbly wobbly...timey wimey...stuff."
3359
Help me settle this debate I was having with my girlfriend at dinner:

She says that, for the sake of example, Disney movies aren't sexist as some claim because they're prejudiced in their portrayal of men as well as women. Her argument is that it isn't discrimination if you're treating everyone the same, even if that treatment is bad.

My stance is that discrimination doesn't stop being discrimination if you add to the list of people you're being a dick to. Something that's sexist to both men and women is still sexist.

What are your thoughts on this?
kentona
I am tired of Earth. These people. I am tired of being caught in the tangle of their lives.
20836
Discrimination is a relative evaluation. Depending on your frame of reference, you are both correct.
Isrieri
"My father told me this would happen."
6155
If you're being discriminatory to both sexes. Then you're being discriminatory to both.
Dudesoft
always a dudesoft, never a soft dude.
6489
Be a man. Just say, "Yes, dear" and never mention this topic again.
Just because you're treating something equal doesn't mean you're not being discriminatory. You can discriminate towards all jellybeans, but it still means you're discriminating against jellybeans. You can hate all birds, but that means you're still being fowlist.

So I guess you win this one. Just don't rub it in her face for the next however long you're together and she might stop being angry about it one day. In the very far off future. Perhaps.
Trihan
"It's more like a big ball of wibbly wobbly...timey wimey...stuff."
3359
Funnily enough our relationship is made of a material stronger than paper and we can have differing opinions in a debate without being mad at each other about it. :P
Dudesoft
always a dudesoft, never a soft dude.
6489
As far as he knows... The poor dear...
Disney is sexist?
If you watch Snow White today in 2013, the morals in it may seem old fashioned and/or discriminatory, but all it did was integrate commonly accepted values of that era and then simplify them because, after all, Disney makes children's movies.
If anything, discrimination now comes in the form of deliberately avoiding specific stereotypes (placing limits on creativity) based on the worry that someone might call "__ism".

Closer on topic, the real reason your girlfriend is wrong is because men and women aren't being portrayed in the same light. Men are dashing heroes and women are damsels in distress. Saying that's an equal comparison is like saying all blacks are inherently crooked and all whites are inherently virtuous.
Well, this topic reminds me of the following picture:

author=Bill Maher
There is a name for people who are always wrong: husband.


Well, even though your wife is wrong, she will never admit it and will pull the "if you disagree with me, I'll break up with you" card. Nyehehehehehe. XD
Trihan
"It's more like a big ball of wibbly wobbly...timey wimey...stuff."
3359
We've decided that depending on your own definition of what discrimination is we're both right. Thanks for your input guys. :)
Trihan
"It's more like a big ball of wibbly wobbly...timey wimey...stuff."
3359
author=Dyhalto
Disney is sexist?
If you watch Snow White today in 2013, the morals in it may seem old fashioned and/or discriminatory, but all it did was integrate commonly accepted values of that era and then simplify them because, after all, Disney makes children's movies.
If anything, discrimination now comes in the form of deliberately avoiding specific stereotypes (placing limits on creativity) based on the worry that someone might call "__ism".

Closer on topic, the real reason your girlfriend is wrong is because men and women aren't being portrayed in the same light. Men are dashing heroes and women are damsels in distress. Saying that's an equal comparison is like saying all blacks are inherently crooked and all whites are inherently virtuous.


Heya, it's the girlfriend here, just thought I should clear up my point since it wasn't explained properly and you seem to have gotten the wrong end of the stick with it. I wasn't saying men and women were being portrayed in the same light (though in most cases they are) I was saying that both sexes are portrayed in unfair ways. The women are almost always beautiful and helpless and just oh so naïve where the men and strong and handsome and brave and those that don't fit these characteristics are often either the fools or the bad guys.

I'd also like to point out that that was just an example and there isn't a correct answer as it depends on the exact type of discrimination in question. :D
^ Oh, okay.
TBH, I was kind of tired last night.
Tonight I'm tired and semi-drunk too, so I'll just not say anything.
Discrimination isn't a bad thing. Discrimination = differentiating.

I want a good football team. I have to choose between two players, one bad player, one good player. I choose the good player. That's discrimination. This is a good thing. You HAVE to choose.

Only having a bad reason for your discrimination is a bad thing.

Like say, I pick a player for my team because he's white and not because he's better than the black player. That would be bad discrimination.

You're not being a dick to any one by choosing one or the other. You're being a dick to them by choosing for the wrong reason.

Maybe discrimination is not the word you're looking for? In fact, maybe that's the reason for your argument to begin with? Or maybe this has already been covered, because I didn't read the rest of the responses. In the case of Disney being sexist towards both males and females, they're not discriminating at all. They're just being dicks to both.
author=Sauce
Maybe discrimination is not the word you're looking for?

What you have described in your post in general (except for the black and white players you mentioned) is only one definition of the word "discrimination". There is another main definition for discrimination:

discrimination
Noun
The unjust or prejudicial treatment of different categories of people or things, esp. on the grounds of race, age, or sex.

And this definition is a bad thing. Yes, the word "discrimination" can be defined as above and as bad without adding the word "bad" in front. You can always check the dictionary if you are still unsure.

Well, if you want to use another word, there are words like "prejudice", "bias", "favoritism" etc. But the word "discrimination" is not the wrong word to use here.
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