I DON'T KNOW ABOUT YOU ALL, BUT A FEMALE SQUALL FOR FF8 WOULD HAVE BEEN COOL.

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OK FOLKS! IS THIS BETTER!!?!?!?!?!?!? IS IT NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!?????

pianotm
The TM is for Totally Magical.
24286
author=alterego
@pianotm: That's cool, then. For the record, I never tried to justify those drawings. If anything, the point I was trying to make earlier on this thread is that those were just the work of horny fan-artists. Actual game developers working on an adaptation of the game would know better than to stray away from Squall's character to design her appearance (or at least one hopes so).


You would think, but somehow, I doubt they would. As a matter of fact, if they made Squall a female, I actually think it would been more along the lines of picture two...of course, that's just judging from the other games.
author=MrChearlie
@PianoTM, don't be so harsh on MrD, he just suffer a little of bad common sense on the internet, everyones makes mistakes like that all the time, even when they though they got used to the internet (lies!)


*sigh* I know, but frankly, my wife was a victim of rape more than once before I met her. She was very active as a feminist and a journalist, and I just heard that shit so much I fly off the handle every time I see or hear it, and I don't feel it's an overreaction, because when you fight against rape, you see how society really feels about it, and I don't want to go into details, but there are people in our government that actively support the rights of men to rape women and actively try to get anti-rape laws repealed. In fighting for women, this is what you fight against and...it's frankly sickening. I had no idea, but Ron Paul is a right to rape supporter. It was a crushing blow to me. I used to be one of the Ron Paul supporters. In my wife's activism, I found where Ron Paul stated that the laws against rape were the greatest travesty of justice against men's rights and needed to be completely abolished. After hearing that on Youtube a few years ago...it was one of those things that leave's you numb. You can't accept that a generally good, religious, upstanding gentleman would ever say something like that...and then to hear the audience cheer as if the Seahawks had made a hail mary touchdown pass. At least Romney had the decency to feign ignorance whenever asked about his position on violence against women.

author=McChearlie
Also, I see your point, but I think both genders suffer a lot in terms of identity, in times of samurais, women would get raped and lot stuff, very frequent, so having a man would implied his protection despite of the man having lots of women, so the samurai would send his women to the kitchen while the women would send him to fight, if someone broke this it would be big dishonor, so everyone take their role and deal with it. Now it still happen a lot of times, but the man would go to work and said I have to paid my wife shit, while the woman would be doing domestic labor saying I am cleaning my husband shit because people lives are driven by economical roles and no so much by social roles, social roles can be really tirefull because of this, they are just polite attempts to be better in your economical role. So woman do not longer require man help but to reproduce, so this question has being since before history, what is a man and what the woman is for him? and vice-versa, so in these times, people are very cold and selfish since they can do anything by themselves, so a lot just see the opposite gender as something to fuck, so I think society is not giving women more value, is denigrating both genders.


Hmm...I agree and disagree. For one thing, yes, everyone's mind is on sex, but it is in the context of a society that is defined by male dominance. Women couldn't even own property in this country until the mid 20th century. A woman who got upset was said to suffer from "female hysteria". Do you know what female hysteria is? There was a time when doctors believed that a woman was really nothing more than womb for babies. They believed the uterus floated around her body and agitated the rest of the body. Thus, if you insulted her and beat her, and she became upset, it wasn't your fault. She was suffering female hysteria, which by the way is permanent and untreatable, and she needs to be committed to a mental hospital. It's true, the times have changed, but they are shaped by the times that came before and this continues to be a man's world. When a man is sexualized, he is most commonly portrayed as the dominant sexual figure. Men are lions and women are little bunnies.

author=McChearlie
So I really like Mulan the disney movie, it was plain obvious to see that it wanted to give women a voice and stuff, but the movie is so heart-whelming and so right on the difference about a woman and a man without trying to put a barrier of saying, man is bad, woman need their rights.
-Mulan doesn't go to war because of wanting to have the same things as a man, but to protect his dad. And his Father main reason to stop her is because she is her daugther, then of course, is: women can't go to war, that is ridiculous, which is not implied in a sense of saying woman doesn't have value, but that they have value in other places. woman are following their traditions and they see quite happy of it, man also have their good taste in life in the tradition that they receive because of their gender.
-Mulan end beings the hero instead of a guy, but they don't forget she is a woman so when she starts training she is lacking a lot of things, things which commonly more easy to do for men than for woman, again, I am generalizing /1/ and his friends end being disguised as Geishas, saying, there are differences, but sure they can do things of the other gender, might be unorthodox but they can do it and is not bad at all.
-Mulan doesn't stop being less femenine, when she is taking a bath she behaves like a woman in her privacy, and she is naked and looks really cute, and I am too used to anime so I could even said she is sexy, but no one says, uuuh she is naked she is a slut, she doesn't lose a bit of dignity. The same goes with the bisexual of Li Shang /2/, even Mulan is like, damn! he is hot, but he imposes respect, but acts indecisive and shy when he returns a helmet to mulan, as well a whole army sings a corny song dedicated to woman.
-When they found Mulan is a girl, they don't go, it's a bitch, she can't fight, but it is a sensation of shame a disappointing about knowing the truth, since they really appreciate her.

So even if it is a kids movie, I really think it make justice to give both gender a lot of value and mix them together without forgetting the big and little differences, rather than separate and give more importance to one side.


Mulan is my favorite Disney movie. It was nice that Disney attempted to bend gender perception. There are a lot of stories written in the same vein that are worth taking a look at. "The Song of the Lioness" quartet by Tamora Pierce: "Alanna: the First Adventure", "In the Hands of the Goddess", "The Woman Who Rides Like a Man", and "Lioness Unleashed"--"Eon" and "Eona" by Alison Goodman.

Another really good story is "Melora and Orlando", a 13th century Spanish romance. Melora is the daughter of King Arthur and Orlando is the son of the ambassador for Spain. The two end up falling in love, but one of King Arthur's advisers plots against Arthur and the Spaniards so he tricks Merlin into imprisoning Orlando. Arthur has no resources to spare because Spain is threatening war and is forced to forbid a search for Orlando. Melora disguises herself as the Knight of the Blue Surcoat and goes on a quest through Turkey, India, and finally China to find three magic items that will break Merlin's spell. Perhaps I shouldn't have mentioned this one since it's extremely obscure and nearly impossible to find. I think John Matthews does a retelling of it in one of his collections. (John Matthews and his wife Caitlin are both scholars of mythology, John's focus being on Arthuriana. They are best known for the "Element Encyclopedia of Magical Creatures").
pianotm
The TM is for Totally Magical.
24286
author=Kaliesto
OK FOLKS! IS THIS BETTER!!?!?!?!?!?!? IS IT NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!?????



LMAO...Tis cool!
Is a miniskirt really that great? Have you ever tried to move around in one guys? Not only are they constrictive as shit, but you always have to be aware of how you move so you don't show panties to the world. That above image? Top half gets a 10/10. Bottom half gets a "Not ever for battle". ;p
pianotm
The TM is for Totally Magical.
24286
author=Liberty
Is a miniskirt really that great? Have you ever tried to move around in one guys? Not only are they constrictive as shit, but you always have to be aware of how you move so you don't show panties to the world. That above image? Top half gets a 10/10. Bottom half gets a "Not ever for battle". ;p


I know, just going over this thread, seeing how it must have looked to him, I thought I might lighten up a little.
What's all this talk of battles anyway. the ff8 I remember was just a bunch of teenagers playing cards game until they got Encounter None and then letting their Pocket Gods handle all the bad guys that weren't thwarted by that.
pianotm
The TM is for Totally Magical.
24286
author=Jericho
What's all this talk of battles anyway. the ff8 I remember was just a bunch of teenagers playing cards game until they got Encounter None and then letting their Pocket Gods handle all the bad guys that weren't thwarted by that.


Damn, that card game was fun, too. FFIX did a card game but it was nowhere near as good. In my opinion though, using encounter none ruined the game. Better just not to use it until the end when there was nothing else worth getting. Damn...now I've got get my copy out and play it. It's all your fault, Jericho.
author=Jericho
What's all this talk of battles anyway. the ff8 I remember was just a bunch of teenagers playing cards game until they got Encounter None and then letting their Pocket Gods handle all the bad guys that weren't thwarted by that.

Don't let Kyrsty hear you say that man~

I wasn't big on 8 really*, but I will admit that card game was hella fun.

*I kinda messed up on my first play through. I got to level 100 not long after the ship could move and screwed myself over in the end game. I think my fondest memory of the game was defeating that boss in the research centre and getting my grubby little paws on Eden. (I had only Selphie left alive, with the last hero drink on her, an aura stone about to run out of juice and invisibility. I'd already skipped past The End twice by spamming the redo button for her Limit Break and was hoping against hope that I'd get it again. I'd been in this battle for almost an hour, ekeing out all my reserves as much as I could. Suddenly, hero drink runs out. I'm down to the wire. Selphie is above half-health. I'm out of revives. An attack! She drops down to double digits. I'm screaming at the screen - "COME ON! COME ON!" The aura stone tanks. Enemy turn is about to go. Suddenly, Limit break. "Come on, Selphie. Come on. Pleasepleasepleasepleaseplea- YES! THE END MOTHER FUCKER!!! ADAM! ADAM I GOT HIM!"
Brother races into the room as The End starts to play. It's my first time ever using it. With bated breath we watch flowers bloom across the screen, then death. We scream and jump and cry! It was our first try at the boss that our older cousin had told us about. We won. We beat that boss!

...then we never got past Tiamat.)
According He-Man, showing legs is a sign of power
author=Liberty
Is a miniskirt really that great?

I don't know about you, but in my country, because it's rather hot, most girls tend to wear short shorts/mini skirts (the top half is decently dressed, though...).

That pretty much goes the same for Koreans/Japanese.
You missed the rest of the message. Yeah, they're great for keeping cool in hot areas, but so are most other skirts. Also, we're talking RPGs here. You gonna run around in an ice cavern in a miniskirt? How about a rainforest (all those bugs and tripping over roots and spiiiiiiiders ;.; )? Or a desert (there's a reason most desert clothing covers the body)? Nevermind in battle - just the huge about of different areas you visit in an RPG is enough to discourage the use of them. :/

And yes, it's not real life, but when so much design thought goes into getting the Main Hero Male (TM) armour just right~ then why not as much for the female characters too?
"Ah, he's a knight! He needs full body armour with accents that show his command and a sheath for his sword and a helmet that has a grill that flips up so we can see his face in cutscenes and don't forget a cape to distinguish him from the rest of the characters around him!"

"Oh, she's a knight! Hm... make the breastplate contour to her breasts but leave the sides and belly bare to show her midriff and make the leg parts only go thigh-high and don't let them overlap with the skirt. Also, give her a cut-away helm or maybe a circlet so she looks pretty. And make her hair free, let it fall down her back in waves of golden sunlight. Perfect."

:/
Really, game designer? Really? One of the best female Knight suits I've seen in a game was that of Chris Lightfellow.


In battle she has her hair pinned up and out of the way. She is noticeably female despite her armour not showing her skin all over the place and well protected.


When undercover, she wears casual clothes that are easy to move in but still show that she's a lady. She wears a short skirt, yes, but she's got tights under them and long boots to protect her legs from harm. She should tie her hair back, really, but if that's my only gripe it's not much of one.
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
5236
But if women in video games start wearing sensible armor, then how will we be able to create a precedent for guys to wear armor that shows off our sixpacks???



Fortunately here is the character selection screen from the game Wartune leading the way in gender equality
Hm... one of three vs three of three. It's a start but I'd like more manflesh there to equal the amount of woman flesh at least. Or how about just not doing it to either gender at all? XP
unity
You're magical to me.
11955
author=LockeZ
Fortunately here is the character selection screen from the game Wartune leading the way in gender equality


Taken to its logical extreme, have a game with an equal number of attractive male and female playable characters, all naked, all the time. Have everyone else in the world clothed. And have no one bat an eye at the fact that your team fights evil in their birthday suits :P
Corfaisus
"It's frustrating because - as much as Corf is otherwise an irredeemable person - his 2k/3 mapping is on point." ~ psy_wombats
7078
author=unity
author=LockeZ
Fortunately here is the character selection screen from the game Wartune leading the way in gender equality
Taken to its logical extreme, have a game with an equal number of attractive male and female playable characters, all naked, all the time. Have everyone else in the world clothed. And have no one bat an eye at the fact that your team fights evil in their birthday suits :P


Greek Olympian RPG: Progressive Edition.

I'm on it.
pianotm
The TM is for Totally Magical.
24286
author=Liberty
You missed the rest of the message. Yeah, they're great for keeping cool in hot areas, but so are most other skirts. Also, we're talking RPGs here. You gonna run around in an ice cavern in a miniskirt? How about a rainforest (all those bugs and tripping over roots and spiiiiiiiders ;.; )? Or a desert (there's a reason most desert clothing covers the body)? Nevermind in battle - just the huge about of different areas you visit in an RPG is enough to discourage the use of them. :/

And yes, it's not real life, but when so much design thought goes into getting the Main Hero Male (TM) armour just right~ then why not as much for the female characters too?
"Ah, he's a knight! He needs full body armour with accents that show his command and a sheath for his sword and a helmet that has a grill that flips up so we can see his face in cutscenes and don't forget a cape to distinguish him from the rest of the characters around him!"

"Oh, she's a knight! Hm... make the breastplate contour to her breasts but leave the sides and belly bare to show her midriff and make the leg parts only go thigh-high and don't let them overlap with the skirt. Also, give her a cut-away helm or maybe a circlet so she looks pretty. And make her hair free, let it fall down her back in waves of golden sunlight. Perfect."

:/
Really, game designer? Really? One of the best female Knight suits I've seen in a game was that of Chris Lightfellow.


In battle she has her hair pinned up and out of the way. She is noticeably female despite her armour not showing her skin all over the place and well protected.


When undercover, she wears casual clothes that are easy to move in but still show that she's a lady. She wears a short skirt, yes, but she's got tights under them and long boots to protect her legs from harm. She should tie her hair back, really, but if that's my only gripe it's not much of one.

I really like the first one. A shame that in real history, a female knight would have had to hide the fact that she was female. As for finding comfortable knight armor? It doesn't exist. You're literally in a steel suit that's been bolted together. It's designed to protect you, not be functional. You want functionality? It had a trap so you could use the bathroom...and that's about it.

As for gender equality in a game, you might check out Knights of Legend. All characters start naked except for undergarments. You have to buy their cloths and armor over time. Plus, since anyone who decides to respond to this will undoubtedly point out that it's the same in Elder Scrolls, I'll just make a point of mentioning it.

Some of these armor designs in games are absolutely ridiculous. Without armor, the chest is the most protected part of the body anyway so...you're going to give them a halfplate that doesn't protect the stomach, the most vulnerable part of the body, where most fatal injuries occur, and tend to be most painful? Yeah, that makes sense.
Dudesoft
always a dudesoft, never a soft dude.
5799
I like that this thread became a full-fledged equality discussion. :D
@piano: Well, keep in mind that Suikoden is set in it's own world with its own history and women have - as far as we know - almost always been equals on the battle field. In the fifth the whole game takes place in a Queendom (where the queen is kick-ass powerful) as well as a highly intelligent female strategist and another who is a villain, the first has female army officers and generals, the second has a two female state leaders - both quite different to each other -, the third has Chris who leads the Knights under her - she's the commander - as well as Lucia who is the leader of one of the 'enemy' villages and four has the first female strategist - set 100 years before the first game - as well as a kick-ass pirate queen. That's not to mention all the female warriors and generals throughout the whole series. One reason I love the game and it's world to bits. ^.^

Though, frankly, armour wasn't as inflexible as people actually are led to believe. Each was hand-crafted and fitted for the person wearing it which made it perfect fit. It does depend on where the armours originated, of course, but there were quite a few that were intricately created to allow almost full movement and comfort (except in the heat, of course).
It's just that medieval literature/fantasy novels/movies/shows don't look far enough to see those points and like to take the under-dog view - they have to make the heroes weak in some aspect and while a shining armour looks great on the character, they choose to have that weakness come across in lack of movement and mobility.

Oh good, I found the links~ ^.^
<<Here>>
<<Here>>
<<And these >><<two on Boob-plates>>
I guess it says more about fashion than character design, but that belt doesn't even have anything to hold up, and is doing a pretty bad job of holding her top together if that's what it's for.
author=Amy
I guess it says more about fashion than character design, but that belt doesn't even have anything to hold up, and is doing a pretty bad job of holding her top together if that's what it's for.

It's a sword belt - it's holding her scabard, and not much else. She wears a similar but fancier one when wearing the armor and has basically just chosen a fairly loose belt so that her sword rests in roughly the same place as she's used to.