DO WE HAVE ANY WAY OF RECOGNIZING EXPERT SCRIPTERS?

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I've been here for like, ever, right? And I'm sure I'm not the only one who has witnessed the transformation of RPG Maker from something that's programming went from just a collection of events and variables of RPG Maker 2000 to something that's a lot more; scripting with tools such as Ruby and RGSS3 and the like that comes with RPG Maker VX Ace.

While RPG Maker VX Ace's scripting and by extension Ruby isn't a terribly hard thing to learn to do, at first glance it can be quite a beast to contend with, especially if something goes wrong, you want a modification to a complex script, or if you're dealing with something inherently complex; the difference between an amateur scripter and an expert one is pretty big.

Is there any way for us to organize and acknowledge those who are proficient in these languages and skillsets? I ask this because we've always had tons of people here willing to discuss game design, narrative, story, game ideas, etc, but our people with actual technical skill have always been scattered or lacking; I always look forward to posting a topic about game design, but if I need help scripting or so, I usually feel nervous about making a topic and I notice that topics about script help don't get the same love they would get at other game making sites.

I think we're better than that though, but there has to be some way of attracting, organizing, and acknowledging that technical talent that it takes to actually brick and mortar create a game.
I think one of the main reason many use RPG Maker is precisely because you don't have to script. That's probably why there isn't the same kind of turnout to that kind of thread. Personally I would probably fall into the amateur category, which is fine by me, since I find it incredibly dull.
But people do script with RPG Maker; RPG Maker XP, VX, and Ace are far more popular than the older ones nowadays, and I'd say the vast majority of users of those programs have exposure to scripting.

The lack of turnout isn't because people don't script, it's because people don't have the same confidence of getting their problem solved or their question answered that they would have of say, rpgmakervxace.net or whatnot. Because of that, this site is usually dead last for me when I run into trouble scripting, because for every one post here, I'd get like, 5 posts on a site like the above. I believe if we are to become a well rounded game making site, this is something that is worth observing.
Oddly enough, if I ask here I usually get a reply pretty fast. Or ignored altogether. It's either/or and in the case of being ignored, it's a case of that happening all over. ^.^;

We do have a pretty kicking script section that has a lot of scripts in it. Nothing like the master script list, but a lot of commentary on the scripts tend to happen there rather than on the forums themselves, from what I've seen. Sort of like game pages for scripts.
It still seems clunky, or not intuitive, or something. If the forums aren't as poppin' as the script section, but they do the same thing, maybe there's some way to integrate the two concepts?

There's always room for improvement.
Maybe they don't feel like spending the time and headaches involved with solving scripting errors. It's not always an easy thing to glance at and be able to solve. Maybe they don't want to be recognized and pestered with questions.
author=Link_2112
Maybe they don't feel like spending the time and headaches involved with solving scripting errors. It's not always an easy thing to glance at and be able to solve. Maybe they don't want to be recognized and pestered with questions.


But this same audience you speak of certainly do spend time and headaches, and recognized and deals with questions on other game making sites with an active inflow and lifeblood of discussion on the technical meat and bones of game making and scripting, so that argument doesn't hold.

I think it would literally be nothing but benefit for us to critically examine how we've been handling this aspect of game making here and be open to improve it.

A lot of times I forget to check the RMN boards in case someone has technical support. I think a lot of scripters are the same. The good thing about the usual forum layout is that there's the Script Request board and the RGSS3 Board so nearby they might feel inclined to check anyway just in case they find something that interest them.

RMN doesn't comment much on the scripts or resources available either. A lot of times, one can go, oh yeah, I submitted over here.

Basically, community reception = technical skill person will be inclined to stay since it means there's an audience that actually uses their work and/or appreciates it, tests it, etc.
As a scripter do you have any particular observations or suggestions on that?
Oh sorry, I edited my post (just woke up) to show one of the reasons why a lot of other scripters are a lot more active in either RMW or RMVXA.net. So I didn't see your post sooner.
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
6003
I dunno what to tell you except "that community apparently isn't present at this website" and "not every website has to be the best at everything".

Despite the fact that I visit this site every day and visit other RPG Maker sites once every few months at best, I don't *mind* visiting other sites. I just neither need help with scripting nor particularly want to help other people with scripting. But on the rare occasions where I do, that's when I visit those other sites. And that's fine. Visiting a different site to accomplish a different goal is fine.

Their interfaces aren't any better than ours. They don't have any better ways of locating scripters or anything like that. They just have different people in their forums than we do.
If that's the ultimate conclusion we come to, fine. But I am not satisfied with coming to that conclusion without at least examining and exploring options to make us active, competitive and more relevant in that field.
Well, we could probably do like we have with the other help section - instead of help blogs, new scripts? That way the newly added scripts are in a section of the forums, easily accessible to all. You are right, though, with the disconnect between the resource and script areas we do suffer in not having a community presence for scripters. It may be something we could look into.
I think RMN could be competitive and relevant to the field. It'd be nice if we actually do since who will replace the oldbies? D:
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
6003
I think our system for script submissions is probably already superior to almost every other RPG Maker website... it's just been there for less than two years, while the popular sites for scripting have had their script forums for a decade. So even though their interface is clumsy and they have no categorization, they have way more content.

I guess part of the reason people don't comment on scripts here might be just be that they're not in a forum? I mean, putting them in a forum instead of a submission system automatically says "comment on this! respond to this!"

Also, the scripts aren't organized by most-recently-commented-on like a forum would be. If you comment on a script that's not the most recently submitted script, no one but the creator will ever know. No one can go in and see the last week's worth of comments on all scripts like they could if they were in a forum.

But that's RMN's entire MO in a nutshell: Move everything away from forums. Have professional-style submission systems. Organize things better, because it makes everyone's stuff look more official, even though poor organization actually fosters more discussion.
I do agree that our system itself is pretty awesome, but I don't think we're utilizing it to the best end in terms of communication, discussion, and dissemination of ideas.

author=Locke
I guess part of the reason people don't comment on scripts here might be just be that they're not in a forum? I mean, putting them in a forum instead of a submission system automatically says "comment on this! respond to this!"

Also, the scripts aren't organized by most-recently-commented-on like a forum would be. If you comment on a script that's not the most recently submitted script, no one but the creator will ever know. No one can go in and see the last week's worth of comments on all scripts like they could if they were in a forum.



Isn't that something that should be under review?
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
6003
I'm pretty sure if Kentona thought he could get away with it without people crying bloody murder, RMN wouldn't even have forums any more, so don't expect too much of a change in that direction.
I am not proposing we get rid of anything, I'm proposing we look at ways to make our existing system better.
author=Feldschlacht IV
But this same audience you speak of certainly do spend time and headaches, and recognized and deals with questions on other game making sites with an active inflow and lifeblood of discussion on the technical meat and bones of game making and scripting, so that argument doesn't hold.

If it's the same group of users who post scripts here, then I would think they don't want to do troubleshooting on every single RPGmaker website. It can be time consuming to help people on one site, let alone several. They don't have an infinite amount of time to help out every user on the internet. They want to make games and scripts so they chose a single site to focus on.

It's possible that they choose to go to one of the others because those sites are focused on certain engines, mainly the newer RM's that actually use scripting. Whereas RMN includes many engines besides RM, so the overall importance of rgss is diluted. Maybe they use RMN as a database and to reach more people, but call one of the other sites their home.

From what I know, the big script writers don't post much at all here. Anywhere. They might have personal reasons for not liking this place. Bad experience in the past. Annoying experiences with lazy noobs.

I think it would literally be nothing but benefit for us to critically examine how we've been handling this aspect of game making here and be open to improve it.


I'm not trying to tell you to shut up. Getting more scripting help here would be a good thing. I'm just offering up some possible counter arguments. I'm always down for a little improvement. This isn't necessarily a problem of lack of infrastructure to promote script discussion. What are the other sites like? Aren't they mostly all just forums. RMN has that and more. The reason could be personal.
kentona
Your mom is a hero
20844
author=LockeZ
I'm pretty sure if Kentona thought he could get away with it without people crying bloody murder, RMN wouldn't even have forums any more, so don't expect too much of a change in that direction.
I think you are confusing me with WIP. I love the forums.

The reality is that we came too late into the game and other sites became established in their userbase and scripters and we are playing catch-up.

Just so you know, the thing we are competing with moreso that other RM forums are personal blogs/tumblrs of scripters. That's where the superstar scripters really live. There's a whole network of them.

Maybe that's the next step RMN takes - userprofiles (akin to gameprofiles). Submit a "Scripter user profile" that you manage with blog posts and submissions and whatnot and get notices and subscribers and credit to gameprofiles. Or maybe a "Player user profile" and that's where you showcase your LPs and LTs and reviews. Or maybe a "Artist user profile" with art and resources. Or a Music profile etcetc... Scripter, Music, Art, Player etc would be your userprofile "genre".

Then I can do stuff like have a listings, userprofile featurettes on the frontpage, notifications, subscriptions, stats, etc..

I don't know, just spitballin'
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