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VILLAINOUS EVENT?
Posts
Seiromem
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CloseSo, I was just browsing the welp forum like I never do, and I came across this topic
and everyone's replies were somewhat varied yet most of them referred to a lack of good villains in RMN games in general.
Let's fix that shall we?
we could have an event where participants would create a game focusing/revolving around the villain. Such a game would require not just a good villain(s) but good characters to interact with the villain(s) so it wouldn't be some "one-trick pony" event like "USE MUSHROOMS A LOT" or some crap I would totally come up with.
Deciding who the winner is would be simple: Whoever the community likes most (So using a poll) is the winner. After all, this event was inspired by some RMNers saying their aren't really good villains they could think of.
These articles seem to be a good source for helping out/giving suggestions to the participants (including myself)
Ideas, suggestions, condemnation, support?
and everyone's replies were somewhat varied yet most of them referred to a lack of good villains in RMN games in general.
Let's fix that shall we?
we could have an event where participants would create a game focusing/revolving around the villain. Such a game would require not just a good villain(s) but good characters to interact with the villain(s) so it wouldn't be some "one-trick pony" event like "USE MUSHROOMS A LOT" or some crap I would totally come up with.
Deciding who the winner is would be simple: Whoever the community likes most (So using a poll) is the winner. After all, this event was inspired by some RMNers saying their aren't really good villains they could think of.
These articles seem to be a good source for helping out/giving suggestions to the participants (including myself)
Ideas, suggestions, condemnation, support?
Red_Nova
Sir Redd of Novus: He who made Prayer of the Faithless that one time, and that was pretty dang rad! :D
9192
A game focused on a villain... So wouldn't that technically make them the protagonist? Especially if you're focusing on the villain's point of view in the game.
This definitely seems like a good idea. There would have to be a lot of restrictions, though. My game certainly has a villain, but the MAIN villain of the game isn't exactly a PERSON. Since there is more than one type of antagonist, I'm going to assume from the articles that you had an external villain in mind when you thought this up.
Have you ever played the DS game Sands of Destruction? It's like a typical RPG, but instead of saving the world, you're out to destroy it. But every character in your party is pretty much a typical RPG archetype. Would they count as villains?
Maybe I'm over thinking this. Regardless, I think this idea is great.
This definitely seems like a good idea. There would have to be a lot of restrictions, though. My game certainly has a villain, but the MAIN villain of the game isn't exactly a PERSON. Since there is more than one type of antagonist, I'm going to assume from the articles that you had an external villain in mind when you thought this up.
Have you ever played the DS game Sands of Destruction? It's like a typical RPG, but instead of saving the world, you're out to destroy it. But every character in your party is pretty much a typical RPG archetype. Would they count as villains?
Maybe I'm over thinking this. Regardless, I think this idea is great.
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
5958
author=Red_NovaIn a book or movie you might be correct, but the "main protagonist" in a video game is defined differently. It's a matter of who the player is controlling, rather than who the camera is focused on. There are a lot of ways to make a game focus on someone other than the point-of-view characters.
A game focused on a villain... So wouldn't that technically make them the protagonist? Especially if you're focusing on the villain's point of view in the game.
You can even have a villain who joins the party. Sephiroth was a temporary party member in FF7.
And no one said your character had to be the game's main villain. A villain who joins the team near the end of the game is a pretty common trope.
I know how I'd do it. It would involve making a nonviolent game, so that I can justify the hero and villain both being present in almost every scene without one of them just killing the other. Possibly my Debate RPG idea? I probably won't enter though; I avoid contests that involve making a whole game.
GoatBoy
706
Ooh. This could be fun. I had been tossing around a couple ideas that might be just perfect for this.
I really don't like events that are judged by community vote. Especially if there are a large volume of entries, everyone just plays their friends' games and votes for them.
That said, the event sounds awesome and I hope it gets off the ground.
That said, the event sounds awesome and I hope it gets off the ground.
author=Sailerius
I really don't like events that are judged by community vote. Especially if there are a large volume of entries, everyone just plays their friends' games and votes for them.
Agreed. Especially if there's only 2 or 3 votes for the winner! That indicates there is not a large enough sample size.
But let's not get into the philosophy of how a group of experts are better at deciding things than a democracy... that might get a little heated (lol)
author=CashmereCatauthor=SaileriusAgreed. Especially if there's only 2 or 3 votes for the winner! That indicates there is not a large enough sample size.
I really don't like events that are judged by community vote. Especially if there are a large volume of entries, everyone just plays their friends' games and votes for them.
But let's not get into the philosophy of how a group of experts are better at deciding things than a democracy... that might get a little heated (lol)
I feel the same. It's too much like elementary school where votes aren't based on merit but whose friends were involved. The unpopular kid was sure to get a big fat 0.
Jalex
979
author=seiromem
we could have an event where participants would create a game focusing/revolving around the villain. Such a game would require not just a good villain(s) but good characters to interact with the villain(s) so it wouldn't be some "one-trick pony" event like "USE MUSHROOMS A LOT" or some crap I would totally come up with.
Are you thinking a game with a villain protagonist, or just a standard hero/villain dynamic with emphasis on the villain? Either way, I'm cool with the idea, just so long as we don't start until after the castles event is finished.
And I agree there should be a more standard way of judging than just "everybody votes on everything".
NebelSoft
33
That makes an interesting topic to define what actually "is" a villain after all. : )
Is it a bad person? A violent person? A rude person?
It can, but doesn't have to.
A beastly person is not always a villain - and a villain is not always beastly.
The motivation for their actions, is always an intersting factor.
But to sup it up, all the "villain" is, is a character that for some reason (mainly by what he/she plans or does) is deemed unpopular by the predominant society / social structure - because the social structure defines the acceptable "norm" and the law.
That said, Characters like in Disgaea, even though they are supposed to be villains, don't really stand out as villains because they live in a demon society and just do what all other demons do at well.. ^^; There is never too much of a shocking conflict...
Is it a bad person? A violent person? A rude person?
It can, but doesn't have to.
A beastly person is not always a villain - and a villain is not always beastly.
The motivation for their actions, is always an intersting factor.
But to sup it up, all the "villain" is, is a character that for some reason (mainly by what he/she plans or does) is deemed unpopular by the predominant society / social structure - because the social structure defines the acceptable "norm" and the law.
That said, Characters like in Disgaea, even though they are supposed to be villains, don't really stand out as villains because they live in a demon society and just do what all other demons do at well.. ^^; There is never too much of a shocking conflict...
I have many many ideas for this...
I simply must have this even now! I got close to finishing last event, but this time I think I'd be motivated to finish.
I simply must have this even now! I got close to finishing last event, but this time I think I'd be motivated to finish.
It's not so much a focus on the villain but a focus on making a great villain.
If you guys don't like the voting thing, then it'll be judges. It was merely a suggestion.
If you guys don't like the voting thing, then it'll be judges. It was merely a suggestion.
Desertopa
775
How long a contest is this going to be? I think it would be pretty hard to make a really great villain in a short game (although certainly not undoable.) If all the game entries are short, I think the pickings would probably end up rather slim.
Aegix_Drakan
6037
Would be fun. But if it's in the very near future,there's no way I'm gonna even have a chance to jump in. I have exams next week. x_x
author=NebelSoft
That makes an interesting topic to define what actually "is" a villain after all. : )
Is it a bad person? A violent person? A rude person?
It can, but doesn't have to.
A beastly person is not always a villain - and a villain is not always beastly.
The motivation for their actions, is always an intersting factor.
But to sup it up, all the "villain" is, is a character that for some reason (mainly by what he/she plans or does) is deemed unpopular by the predominant society / social structure - because the social structure defines the acceptable "norm" and the law.
That said, Characters like in Disgaea, even though they are supposed to be villains, don't really stand out as villains because they live in a demon society and just do what all other demons do at well.. ^^; There is never too much of a shocking conflict...
Villain, like so many things we discuss, is an abstract. A villain, is generally regarded as the ne'er-do-well of the story, the bandit that kidnaps the hero's girlfriend and ties to the railroad tracks, steals the jewels and creates general mischief. This is the basic villain, and it works because such a character has an evil charm that the reader/viewer/player simply loves to hate.
Of course, that is a basic villain, only too common in video games. When does the villain stop being the villain? Perhaps when the reader/viewer/player starts to cheer for the villain? Examples of likable villains includes Heath Ledger's character, Tony in The Imaginarium of Doctor Parnassus, Jareth the Goblin King from Labyrinth, and Bill from Kill Bill, just to name some of my favorites.
In writing however, if you cast the bad guy however, as a general rule he's not the villain. Most gamers will immediately think of Kain, from Blood Omen: Legacy of Kain. Perhaps the only infallible rule for what makes a villain is this: "The villain is the character that the writer has designated to oppose the protagonist." This rule, of course, opens us up to all kinds of interesting speculation about why.
Yes, I put a lot of thought into villains, and btw, I would be all over a villains event.
I think there's a major difference between a villain and an antagonist. To my understanding, an antagonist is a person or group of people that opposes the protagonist, which is, by definition, the main character. But a villain is only defined as an "evil" character, regardless of whether they're the main antagonist or not. I mean, theoretically, the villain can be anyone. People can even have different views on who's a villain, depending on their moral compass.
I'm of the view that a villain can be the protagonist or the antagonist, or even any other character in the piece. Villains can be perceived as anyone who the player/viewer/beholder thinks is pursuing a morally wrong thing as their primary motivation. So if they're considered morally "evil", then they are a villain, whoever they happen to be in the story. But I want to know what you guys think on the subject. Is this a good definition for a villain? Or should a villain have to be opposing the main protagonist, since we are inside the main protagonist's mind? Therefore our actions are justified, because we are them?
I'm of the view that a villain can be the protagonist or the antagonist, or even any other character in the piece. Villains can be perceived as anyone who the player/viewer/beholder thinks is pursuing a morally wrong thing as their primary motivation. So if they're considered morally "evil", then they are a villain, whoever they happen to be in the story. But I want to know what you guys think on the subject. Is this a good definition for a villain? Or should a villain have to be opposing the main protagonist, since we are inside the main protagonist's mind? Therefore our actions are justified, because we are them?
author=CashmereCat
I think there's a major difference between a villain and an antagonist. To my understanding, an antagonist is a person or group of people that opposes the protagonist, which is, by definition, the main character. But a villain is only defined as an "evil" character, regardless of whether they're the main antagonist or not. I mean, theoretically, the villain can be anyone. People can even have different views on who's a villain, depending on their moral compass.
I'm of the view that a villain can be the protagonist or the antagonist, or even any other character in the piece. Villains can be perceived as anyone who the player/viewer/beholder thinks is pursuing a morally wrong thing as their primary motivation. So if they're considered morally "evil", then they are a villain, whoever they happen to be in the story. But I want to know what you guys think on the subject. Is this a good definition for a villain? Or should a villain have to be opposing the main protagonist, since we are inside the main protagonist's mind? Therefore our actions are justified, because we are them?
First, I wasn't suggesting that the antagonist is always a villain. I was essentially stating that all villains are antagonists, but not all antagonists are villains, which I'll admit is an oversimplification. I was trying to suggest that once the villain is the protagonist, he is not the villain. The story, at that point, is basically viewing it's world from the point of view of the protagonist. Now this part is important, so I'm writing in all caps: NOBODY BELIEVES THAT HE IS THE BAD GUY.
You can't say that the villain is the character that's morally wrong because we all have different opinions on what is morally wrong. So, I think it more accurate to say, the villain is whoever the other characters in the in the tale believe is morally wrong, and if the villain is not the protagonist, then the strongest voices in a story will belong to those who stand against the villain. We think he or she is the villain, because the hero we've been subconsciously told to root for thinks he or she is the villain. Once the the villain is the protagonist, the hero at this point becomes the villain.
