RPG MAKER 2003 QUESTION OF LEGALITIES

Posts

The trial version is deliberately limited. You can't use RGSS to get around that limitation because you can't use scripts in the trial version. They are locked. Unlocking the ability to use scripts means that you hacked the program itself which is illegal as of their EULA.

You can use scripts in the full version because it's unlocked - you don't need to hack into the program to unlock them in any way. They are not illegal to use. At all. >.<
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
6003
No, there are definitely ways to use scripts in the trial version in a limited capacity. For example, you can create them in the 30-day trial version and then paste those scripts into your Ace Lite project folder, or you could put them in the damage formula boxes for skills in the database.

That's why they had to make an official post specifically stating that using the built-in capabilities of the trial version to do the things that are supposed to only be done in the full version is against the terms of service.
Dude, seriously, it's illegal to find ways around it. Trial versions aren't supposed to have scripting. In the trial/Lite version it's illegal. Full version, perfectly legal. Where's the issue in understanding that?

It's like taking the price tag off an unbranded item then putting it on a branded item of the same type and going through self-checkout. It's pretty easy to see why that would be illegal. Same kind of thing.

What are you trying to point out? That you can do something so it must be legal? No. You can steal a car, doesn't make it legal. Or that because it's illegal in one instance, it must be illegal in all instances? So if driving 60 in a 40 zone is illegal, then driving 60 in any zone is? Really... >.<
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
6003
I'm not saying it's legal. I'm saying the way they used the EULA to make it illegal also made all forms of scripting illegal in all versions of RPG Maker.

My reason for pointing this out is just to draw attention to the fact that just because something is banned in the EULA doesn't automatically mean that it's something the company doesn't want you to do. A lot of the time you have to ask them directly.

My earlier advice of "Call or email Enterbrain's customer service and ask them" stands.
The Ace Lite restrictions weren't very well done at all though! It was strictly a UI limitation, if you could get to any eval block (skill execution, condition branch->script, move event->script) you could make a load call to import all of your hot and sexy scripts into your game. From there you can bypass the database limits too, back in the Japanese trial I had a script that would import multiple databases and apply offsets to the imported data to prevent ID collisions. There are issues with that though since you don't want the game to crash on the load screen which is before you can inject your scripts and ergo can reference data that hasn't been loaded yet.

Or there was the comedy choice of making your scripts file in VX, rename it to the Ace extension, and c/p it into your game project folder. This also meant you could make your own title screen in any Ace, even the Japanese trial! (and my script to bypass the database limits wouldn't have missing data issues either) Ace can even take the VX map format like a champ! Some extra data is lost but the bulk of the map is fine. I forget if events survive the transition though.



Actually I'd bet if you wrote an event->script call in VX you could c/p it into Ace. I never checked if the command was still available in the script backend but I'd bet it is. I'm just not sure if Ace would accept the clipboard in this scenario or a map+event transfer.


I don't care about any of the EULA stuff because with RM I'm strictly a consumer, I just want to share some of my fun experiences
From what I'm gathering, the argument is that you can bypass a lot of the Lite Trial's limitations through clever manipulation without hacking the actual program (ie., like LockeZ stated about using the 30-day trial to make your scripts and then port them over to Lite).

Note, in the following thoughts, I use the term "illegal" subjectively, meaning a breach of the EULA, since only the courts can decide what is truely illegal.

If it only becomes illegal once you hack Lite to alter the way it functions, then using other alternatives to break the limitations should be considered okay, even if it's low on the moral compass. In LockeZ's suggestion about using the 30-day version to get around Lite, no hacking is involved.

But if it becomes illegal to break the limitations of Lite, even if it's not done through hacking, and Lite shares the same EULA as the full version, then it implies that breaking the limitations of the full version (even without hacking) also becomes a breach of the EULA, unless somewhere in that EULA it distinctly implies what parts of the EULA are applied to which versions:

Something like - breaking the limitations in the full program without hacking is allowed, but breaking the limitations in Lite (even without hacking) is not allowed.

I agree, Lite is limited for a reason - to get people to buy the full version. But the question becomes, is it legal to bypass those limitations when hacking is not involved?
Thiamor
I assure you I'm no where NEAR as STUPID as one might think.
63
I was under the original impression that LockeZ was originally talking about how even if it is illegal, more times than not they won't do shit to you (they just put up the terms so they could) unless they notice a decline in sales, or a potential decline of sales for something growing rapidly popular, and that if you requested a licence of some kind or just asked them ahead of time, they most likely wouldn't give a shit?
Why would you use rm2k3 in the first place? I'm sure there's a huge demand for the crisp graphics a 320x 240 resolution can provide..
There's a niche in everything. You may not appreciate it, but that doesn't mean others feel the same way. RM2K and RM2K3 produced some really great games, but they also produced some fairly horrid ones as well. Same as with XP, same as with VX, and the same as with Ace.

RM2K3 offers things by default that other programs do not. Not everybody wants or cares to use scripts, so having more upfront caters to those kind of people.
Thiamor
I assure you I'm no where NEAR as STUPID as one might think.
63
Also it's not like it's being used to produce a game. I'm only using it for the "Show image" event function, and the ability to control events. Though better resolution means the images should show up better, so I might consider using like XP, or Ace.
Backwards_Cowboy
owned a Vita and WiiU. I know failure
1332
author=Thiamor
Though better resolution means the images should show up better, so I might consider using like XP, or Ace.


I'd recommend going with one of those two simply because you can pay a few dollars and never have to worry about any legal trouble. And you could distribute among your target audience via Steam if you go with Ace. Especially if you're just going to use "Show Image". I remember having trouble with that in 2k3 and it wouldn't accept any of my PNG files even after patching and updating and all that.
halibabica
RMN's Official Reviewmonger
15258
Legal ramifications aside, this just doesn't sound like a good idea. So...you're making a manga reader in RM2k3. I guess it loads in pages of the manga for reading? Like an image viewer? Like every other computer on earth already has in some form?

I don't get why anyone would ever need this, let alone be willing to pay for it. You can still make it if you want; like amerk said, there's a niche for everything, but you should just forget the legal headaches and make it a free download. Expecting anyone to pay for something they can already do for free is absurd.
Thiamor
I assure you I'm no where NEAR as STUPID as one might think.
63
Well they are paying to read the manga, not paying to use the program.
Plus it's easier for me to use RPG MAKER and encrypt the files thus while someone can decrypt it, it'll limit who would do it and steal the images to distribute across the internet.
Heh; And what stops people from simply screen-caping the images and uploading the entire manga in a convenient .cbz file?

...Seriously, you should just do that yourself and be done with it. =P
halibabica
RMN's Official Reviewmonger
15258
Ohhh, you wrote the manga that it reads. That makes a lot more sense. I thought it was for importing other mangas or something.

Still, RM2k3 is hardly the safest way to distribute such a thing. I wouldn't really know what to recommend, since anyone determined enough to steal the data can find a way. There's only so much you can do to protect yourself, and using an 11-year-old game design platform won't stop any serious thieves.
Thiamor
I assure you I'm no where NEAR as STUPID as one might think.
63
The part about screen capping, well the thing is, it's rather tedious work to do, and it's safer to assume most of the people would rather read it than go through the trouble of doing that, and even safer to assume people won't decrypt the files.

It's also safe to assume that once it gets popular enough to warrant those who will do it, to do it, the piracy will more so help it than ruin it.
Sailerius
did someone say angels
3304
author=Thiamor
The part about screen capping, well the thing is, it's rather tedious work to do, and it's safer to assume most of the people would rather read it than go through the trouble of doing that, and even safer to assume people won't decrypt the files.

It's also safe to assume that once it gets popular enough to warrant those who will do it, to do it, the piracy will more so help it than ruin it.

It would take me all of 5 minutes to write a script to rip them.
Marrend
Guardian of the Description Thread
20691
How about a visual novel?
Thiamor
I assure you I'm no where NEAR as STUPID as one might think.
63
author=Sailerius
author=Thiamor
The part about screen capping, well the thing is, it's rather tedious work to do, and it's safer to assume most of the people would rather read it than go through the trouble of doing that, and even safer to assume people won't decrypt the files.

It's also safe to assume that once it gets popular enough to warrant those who will do it, to do it, the piracy will more so help it than ruin it.
It would take me all of 5 minutes to write a script to rip them.
You're not the average person. The average person won't just go out and rip the files. I'm not saying every single person wouldn't do it, but music still sells good, games, movies, manga, books, all sell well enough because the average person still buys them.

author=Marrend
How about a visual novel?

Easier to just rig it up where once you push a specific key it moves on to the next panel.
Sailerius
did someone say angels
3304
Aside from the whole illegal thing, yeah.