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MAKING THE STORY INTO A JOURNEY
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matthewac95
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matthewac95
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CloseIn my experience in designing games, one of the biggest obstacles I seem to consistently face is this:
I've a story concept. I've developed it enough to where I know who the main protagonist(s) is/are, I know who the main antagonist(s) is/are, and I either know or have a good idea as to why either party is involved. I know at least some of the setting, have some of the game world in mind, have some key themes I want to integrate, and maybe even one or two specific scenes or bosses which I have planned out because that's how the game comes alive in my mind.
In short, I have my main ideas. I have my major plot points. At this stage I have a good feel for the foci which my game is going to be revolving around.
Yet despite having all of that, it ultimately means nothing to anyone if it isn't all tied together through gameplay.
I'm finding this difficult to explain with words, but what I mean to say is that, though I know where I want to take the player in my world, I have trouble figuring out how to get them there as a part of a video game. It's this that I mean when I say "Making the story into a journey"; that is, to take a story, a few characters and a plot, and how to make it come alive by intertwining it with an interactive game world that's going to have enemies and bosses and some towns and non-player characters that just aren't important to the plot, and really hold no other weight than for being there because without them I wouldn't be able to use the actual gameplay elements I designed to make playing the game fun. In some ways I guess you could just call it "fluff", but it's more important than that to me because if you don't put your game in a world where it fits, then you risk breaking immersion and making everything seem too forced.
So I guess I'm asking how you guys find yourselves doing it, or at least to give insight to the problem and maybe some tips as to how to get better at doing it. One solution to this problem I've observed is to just make a number of small objectives for the player to follow until they hit the big plot points the designer had planned, but then how do you guys come up with the small things?
I've a story concept. I've developed it enough to where I know who the main protagonist(s) is/are, I know who the main antagonist(s) is/are, and I either know or have a good idea as to why either party is involved. I know at least some of the setting, have some of the game world in mind, have some key themes I want to integrate, and maybe even one or two specific scenes or bosses which I have planned out because that's how the game comes alive in my mind.
In short, I have my main ideas. I have my major plot points. At this stage I have a good feel for the foci which my game is going to be revolving around.
Yet despite having all of that, it ultimately means nothing to anyone if it isn't all tied together through gameplay.
I'm finding this difficult to explain with words, but what I mean to say is that, though I know where I want to take the player in my world, I have trouble figuring out how to get them there as a part of a video game. It's this that I mean when I say "Making the story into a journey"; that is, to take a story, a few characters and a plot, and how to make it come alive by intertwining it with an interactive game world that's going to have enemies and bosses and some towns and non-player characters that just aren't important to the plot, and really hold no other weight than for being there because without them I wouldn't be able to use the actual gameplay elements I designed to make playing the game fun. In some ways I guess you could just call it "fluff", but it's more important than that to me because if you don't put your game in a world where it fits, then you risk breaking immersion and making everything seem too forced.
So I guess I'm asking how you guys find yourselves doing it, or at least to give insight to the problem and maybe some tips as to how to get better at doing it. One solution to this problem I've observed is to just make a number of small objectives for the player to follow until they hit the big plot points the designer had planned, but then how do you guys come up with the small things?
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
5958
One thing I have started trying to do is to always make sure that very early in the story, even if I don't want the protagonist's final goal to be clear yet, I try to create something that the player thinks will be the final goal. Overthrow the Empire, find a way out of this giant prison dimension, rescue your daughter. If the player doesn't have a big, overarching goal, and is just hopping from one small thing to the next, it feels disjointed.
This is a pretty big problem in, say, Chrono Trigger: Crimson Echoes. In the first third of the game, you're just doing different miscellaneous tasks for different people (mostly King Guardia and Balthasar), and the tasks have very little to do with each-other and serve no higher purpose. In the second third of the game (reptite world), you have a main problem - but no way to solve it, so you just keep wandering around doing stuff that needs to be done until you happen upon a solution. The end result is that the game feels like a series of short stories instead of a coherent narrative.
Of course, I understand why they kinda had to do this: they backed themselves into a corner by starting the game off with free access to time travel. When your characters aren't limited in where they can travel, it's difficult to come up with excuses to drag out the story. If they have a goal, why not just go do it? That's exactly what the party does in Crimson Echoes. They learn about a problem, so they travel to that point in time and solve it, and then the game moves on to the next problem. They have a time machine, so why would they not just solve the problems right away?
Limiting the player's ability to travel freely is the most straightforward way of making goals take longer to achieve. In my old RM2K3 game, I didn't even try to do this in a believable way - first some bandits stole the ships you needed, and then when you finally got a ship it got hit by a meteor, and then later sea travel to the villain's territory was impossible because of a barricade so you teleported there by abusing a bug in the game (yes, the characters in the game described it as a programming error; this game was a comedy).
Another method I used that was somewhat less obnoxious was to create a personal problem that sidetracked the main character. Specifically, his daughter got kidnapped. Suddenly the main quest was put on hold - and by the time you got back to it, the situation in the main quest had become worse and you needed to recover your losses.
And of course, you can always require the player to collect the Three Holy MacGuffins from three different dungeons before he can move forward.
This is a pretty big problem in, say, Chrono Trigger: Crimson Echoes. In the first third of the game, you're just doing different miscellaneous tasks for different people (mostly King Guardia and Balthasar), and the tasks have very little to do with each-other and serve no higher purpose. In the second third of the game (reptite world), you have a main problem - but no way to solve it, so you just keep wandering around doing stuff that needs to be done until you happen upon a solution. The end result is that the game feels like a series of short stories instead of a coherent narrative.
Of course, I understand why they kinda had to do this: they backed themselves into a corner by starting the game off with free access to time travel. When your characters aren't limited in where they can travel, it's difficult to come up with excuses to drag out the story. If they have a goal, why not just go do it? That's exactly what the party does in Crimson Echoes. They learn about a problem, so they travel to that point in time and solve it, and then the game moves on to the next problem. They have a time machine, so why would they not just solve the problems right away?
Limiting the player's ability to travel freely is the most straightforward way of making goals take longer to achieve. In my old RM2K3 game, I didn't even try to do this in a believable way - first some bandits stole the ships you needed, and then when you finally got a ship it got hit by a meteor, and then later sea travel to the villain's territory was impossible because of a barricade so you teleported there by abusing a bug in the game (yes, the characters in the game described it as a programming error; this game was a comedy).
Another method I used that was somewhat less obnoxious was to create a personal problem that sidetracked the main character. Specifically, his daughter got kidnapped. Suddenly the main quest was put on hold - and by the time you got back to it, the situation in the main quest had become worse and you needed to recover your losses.
And of course, you can always require the player to collect the Three Holy MacGuffins from three different dungeons before he can move forward.
This is great advice! I had run into a similar problem with two game ideas I've been working on. These are tips I should really keep in mind if I don't want to completely alienate the player from the actual gameplay and story. Thanks!
This isn't so much a game design thing as it is a writing one. The events that drive your story shouldn't be arbitrary; if it pertains to the main quest, every event should have a reason for happening, even if that reason is as simple as "that's what the character would do."
If you have your heroes, villains, and setting figured out, the process is actually fairly simple. You should have some idea of what your characters would and wouldn't do, and its from this knowledge that you drive the plot through their actions. Don't start the game off with a bunch of boring, random fetch quests. You need an inciting incident to establish the narrative and where it's ultimately meant to go. Why do you think so many starting villages get burned down? Not to say that's the way to go; it's just a common example.
Beyond the start of the conflict, everything that happens should be the result of the actions of the characters involved. Don't send the player through Cave X to reach Town Y for no reason. If they're invested in the outcome of the conflict in any regard, every move they make should be toward resolving that conflict. If the character is more concerned about something else, then their motivation should dictate their actions toward that end instead. As long as you make these goals clear to the player and why the characters want to reach them, nothing you include will feel forced or out of place. Plus, the player will always have a proper sense of direction, so they don't feel like they're wasting time wandering around.
Basically, it's all about the characters and their motivations. Anything else is just happenstance.
If you have your heroes, villains, and setting figured out, the process is actually fairly simple. You should have some idea of what your characters would and wouldn't do, and its from this knowledge that you drive the plot through their actions. Don't start the game off with a bunch of boring, random fetch quests. You need an inciting incident to establish the narrative and where it's ultimately meant to go. Why do you think so many starting villages get burned down? Not to say that's the way to go; it's just a common example.
Beyond the start of the conflict, everything that happens should be the result of the actions of the characters involved. Don't send the player through Cave X to reach Town Y for no reason. If they're invested in the outcome of the conflict in any regard, every move they make should be toward resolving that conflict. If the character is more concerned about something else, then their motivation should dictate their actions toward that end instead. As long as you make these goals clear to the player and why the characters want to reach them, nothing you include will feel forced or out of place. Plus, the player will always have a proper sense of direction, so they don't feel like they're wasting time wandering around.
Basically, it's all about the characters and their motivations. Anything else is just happenstance.
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
5958
There's a tough battle going on between trying to make the game feel connected and trying not to add filler material that adds nothing. In order to make the player's tasks feel like a coherent journey, they need to be leading up to some larger final goal - but that also means that theoretically you could skip them and move the player closer to their goal.
In other words, putting a mountain pass blocking the road between the player and his objective helps keep the player feeling like he's still progressing on the same quest, compared to having a mountain you have to climb up because your hero randomly decided to help the local griffin ranch before moving on. But that mountain pass doesn't add much compared to having nothing. You could delete it and not lose anything, story-wise. It just adds gameplay at the expense of the story.
Part of the solution to this is just being a good writer, so that the things the player has to do along the way feel important, and the characters keep the player interested and distracted even when the plot is stagnating a bit. But another big part of it is to weave your themes and story into every zone. Don't just have a random mountain pass full of enemies. Put stuff there that works well with your story. It doesn't necessarily have to take up any of the hero's time - it just has to be something you see along the way, that adds to the game's richness. Stuff that builds on your story, instead of simply sitting beside it in the same world.
Take FF7 as an example. The entire middle third of FF7 - from the time you leave Midgar until when you arrive at the Great North Cave and Cloud gives Sephiroth the black materia - is technically nothing but filler, chasing Sephiroth from one place to the next when you could have just bought a plane ticket and headed straight from Midgar to wherever Sephiroth was. But some of it feels like filler and some of it doesn't. The Mithril Mines and Mt. Corel and Bone Village feel like filler, because nothing happens there. The Gi Cave behind Cosmo Canyon feels sort of like filler, even though it's full of character-driven events, because it's weirdly disconnected from the rest of the game's plot. But the Junon Cargo Ship and Nibelheim and Corel Prison feel like extremely important parts of the game, because they tie in to the main themes of FF7 - the destruction of the planet due to the greed and corruption of Shinra, and their secret Jenova research that created Sephiroth, who would become their downfall.
In other words, putting a mountain pass blocking the road between the player and his objective helps keep the player feeling like he's still progressing on the same quest, compared to having a mountain you have to climb up because your hero randomly decided to help the local griffin ranch before moving on. But that mountain pass doesn't add much compared to having nothing. You could delete it and not lose anything, story-wise. It just adds gameplay at the expense of the story.
Part of the solution to this is just being a good writer, so that the things the player has to do along the way feel important, and the characters keep the player interested and distracted even when the plot is stagnating a bit. But another big part of it is to weave your themes and story into every zone. Don't just have a random mountain pass full of enemies. Put stuff there that works well with your story. It doesn't necessarily have to take up any of the hero's time - it just has to be something you see along the way, that adds to the game's richness. Stuff that builds on your story, instead of simply sitting beside it in the same world.
Take FF7 as an example. The entire middle third of FF7 - from the time you leave Midgar until when you arrive at the Great North Cave and Cloud gives Sephiroth the black materia - is technically nothing but filler, chasing Sephiroth from one place to the next when you could have just bought a plane ticket and headed straight from Midgar to wherever Sephiroth was. But some of it feels like filler and some of it doesn't. The Mithril Mines and Mt. Corel and Bone Village feel like filler, because nothing happens there. The Gi Cave behind Cosmo Canyon feels sort of like filler, even though it's full of character-driven events, because it's weirdly disconnected from the rest of the game's plot. But the Junon Cargo Ship and Nibelheim and Corel Prison feel like extremely important parts of the game, because they tie in to the main themes of FF7 - the destruction of the planet due to the greed and corruption of Shinra, and their secret Jenova research that created Sephiroth, who would become their downfall.
Sviel
2006
If that happens, it means you've gotten way ahead of yourself in writing the story. If you were to write the story in outline format, with the major plot points as headings, each one should be tied to some form of gameplay. If that's not the case, rewrite the story until it is.
E.G. Pokémon Any Color
-Player ventures into TALL GRASS and is given some POKEMON by an OLD GUY
-Player seeks out GYM LEADER for BADGE.
-SOMETHING BAD happens involved TEAM _____.
-MORE BADGES.
-ELITE FOUR.
Other plot points, like 'PLAYER fights RIVAL' are in there, but are optional. Things like 'PLAYER'S MOTHER gets sick and he/she visits her in the hospital' are not there because they add nothing to the game, unless you have to 'FIGHT stuff to find the CURE.'
Thus, when approaching it, it's best to have a firm grasp of gameplay so that the story is written around the gameplay. Trying to stretch it around later may result in boring stretches or stuff the player does not care about.
Remember, translating a book into an interactive experience is not as foolproof as building one from the ground up.
E.G. Pokémon Any Color
-Player ventures into TALL GRASS and is given some POKEMON by an OLD GUY
-Player seeks out GYM LEADER for BADGE.
-SOMETHING BAD happens involved TEAM _____.
-MORE BADGES.
-ELITE FOUR.
Other plot points, like 'PLAYER fights RIVAL' are in there, but are optional. Things like 'PLAYER'S MOTHER gets sick and he/she visits her in the hospital' are not there because they add nothing to the game, unless you have to 'FIGHT stuff to find the CURE.'
Thus, when approaching it, it's best to have a firm grasp of gameplay so that the story is written around the gameplay. Trying to stretch it around later may result in boring stretches or stuff the player does not care about.
Remember, translating a book into an interactive experience is not as foolproof as building one from the ground up.
Sviel
2006
Well, that's interesting...computer had a near death experience and posted again 15 minutes later...k...
Desertopa
775
author=LockeZ
Take FF7 as an example. The entire middle third of FF7 - from the time you leave Midgar until when you arrive at the Great North Cave and Cloud gives Sephiroth the black materia - is technically nothing but filler, chasing Sephiroth from one place to the next when you could have just bought a plane ticket and headed straight from Midgar to wherever Sephiroth was.
Well, not really, since the protagonists didn't know ahead of time where Sephiroth was going, and Black Materia plot point hadn't been introduced yet at that point.
I think that this can be an effective way to direct the flow of journeys in general; it's not that the protagonists couldn't skip ahead, if they had all the right information, but not having it, they're forced to move ahead step by step.
With a mission like "catch and stop Sephiroth," you've got a solid overarching goal for the story, a reason that you can't skip ahead through intended stops in the narrative (because you don't know where Sephiroth is going in advance,) and a clear basis to reveal more information (stop Sephiroth from doing what?)
If your mission is something like "travel to Mount Fear to meet the Onion King and force him to give back your video collection," then you already know the endpoint and what you'll be doing when you get there, and every diversion from the direct route becomes a transparent attempt to drag out the narrative.
@LockeZ: At first I thought that you were talking about Chrono Trigger and I was ready to prove your wrong. But then I read the words "Crimson Echoes" in that title and I had to delete the long-ass reply that I was writing. xD But in my defense, it's only natural that my brain didn't register those words at first, because I've yet to play that game... Yeah. xP
_
Now, to make this post less off-topicy, and even though I don't have a great insight to share about this subject atm... I think even a short, somewhat disjointed game is better, or feels less forced, than the opposite. When a game's main plot is sewn together through side quests or filler dungeons are very obvious to spot, and exhausting to play.
So, imo, get rid of the "small things" and just tell the story that needs to be told. And if you want to make use of the "actual gameplay" just make really kick-ass boss battles, or even puzzles, and be done with it.
_
Now, to make this post less off-topicy, and even though I don't have a great insight to share about this subject atm... I think even a short, somewhat disjointed game is better, or feels less forced, than the opposite. When a game's main plot is sewn together through side quests or filler dungeons are very obvious to spot, and exhausting to play.
So, imo, get rid of the "small things" and just tell the story that needs to be told. And if you want to make use of the "actual gameplay" just make really kick-ass boss battles, or even puzzles, and be done with it.
Jalex
979
author=alterego
So, imo, get rid of the "small things" and just tell the story that needs to be told. And if you want to make use of the "actual gameplay" just make really kick-ass boss battles, or even puzzles, and be done with it.
Why should "actual gameplay" be limited to boss battles and other things that generally make up a minority of the content? Since we're writing games rather than novels, I think it makes more sense to create gameplay segments and adapt plot points to those, as Sviel said. If your plot calls for the heroes to climb Mount Snow for whatever reason, then create a mountain pass for the player to explore.
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
5958
The original Chrono Trigger is an excellent example of a game that had turned its story into a journey. There were two distinct "main" goals across the course of the game, the second of which was the game's main goal. It actually took a while to reach that point, and then even though you knew what your ultimate goal was, the game handled the sub-goals well enough to make sure everything you were doing felt like it was moving forward and relevant. It almost never uses the same trick twice, which keeps it from feeling forced. I think even the extremely overused "monster-filled cave/forest/road that's in your way" excuse is only used three or four times - something other games could take a hint from.
Main Goal 1: Get Home
- Objective 1: Travel through Truce Canyon because you're stranded there
- Objective 2: Travel through Guardia Forest because you're chasing Marle.
- In the process of trying to complete this goal, you encounter a bigger problem that is worth doing first.
Sub Goal 1A: Correct History
- Objective 1: Travel through Guardia Forest twice because it's in your way.
- Objective 2: Explore the Cathedral because it's the final destination of your current goal.
- Return to Main Goal 1.
Main Goal 1 Continued: Get Home
- Objective 3: Travel through Guardia Forest and Truce Canyon again because they're in your way. (These zones take less than two minutes to travel through after you've done them once, so it doesn't feel obnoxious.)
- Temporary success! You are home! Your adventure is over... right?
- In the aftermath, you decide to take your friend home as well. This doesn't go very well and you now once again need to get home.
- Objective 4: Escape from Guardia Castle Prison because you were jailed.
- Objective 5: Travel through Lab 16 because you are stranded in the future and need to find some sort of civilization before you starve.
- Objective 6: Explore Arris Dome because you need to get information, and there's a supercomputer in the basement that can help you find a way home.
- Learn critical game-changing information. Main Goal 1 is abandoned completely at this point.
Main Goal 2: Save the World from Lavos
- Initially, you have no concrete known way to do this. You only know that you need to find a time gate first, so Main Goal 1 effectively becomes a sub-goal of Main Goal 2.
- Objective 1: Travel through Lab 32 because it's in the way.
- Objective 2: Explore the Factory because the time gate in Proto Dome is sealed. This is a transparent attempt at drawing the story out to lengthen the game, but it is done extremely well in that it takes the opportunity to answer many questions the player had about the setting, and reinforces the player's desire to accomplish the new Main Goal.
- After this point the player gets information about a specific way to accomplish the main goal.
Sub Goal 2A: Defeat Magus Before He Can Summon Lavos
- Objective 1: Travel through Heckran's Cave because everyone in Medina is too unfriendly to give you a boat ride.
- Objective 2: Fight your way across Zenan Bridge because the enemy army has occupied the only way into Magus's territory.
- Objective 3: Travel through the Magic Woods in search of information about Magus's weakness.
- Objective 4: Climb Mt. Denadoro to get one half of the MacGuffin.
- Objective 5: Explore the Mystic Mountain Pass in 65MBC in search of the second half of the MacGuffin.
- In the process of completing this objective, your means of travel is stolen.
Sub Goal 2B: Retrieve the Gate Key
- You are forced to reacquire your means of travel. This is, again, a transparent attempt to lengthen the game. But like the Factory, it's also more than that: it's building a new setting, and making you spend time there, and making you interact heavily with the main characters of the setting, so that you'll already care about this setting later when it becomes really important.
- Objective 1: Track the thief through the Forest Maze.
- Objective 2: Explore the Reptite Lair because it's the final destination of your current goal.
- Objective 3: Travel through Mystic Mountain again to reach the time gate and return to Sub Goal 2A.
Sub Goal 2A Continued: Defeat Magus Before He Can Summon Lavos
- Objective 6: Travel through the Magic Cave because it's in the way.
- Objective 7: Battle through Magus's Castle because it's the final destination of your current goal.
- Whoops, that didn't work.
And then you have the second half of the game after that, because PLOT TWISTS. But do you see how long they drew out the Magus thing? Ten dungeons between learning that you needed to defeat Magus and actually defeating him. The sidetrack to 65MBC would feel extremely disconnected if you didn't get sent back there again immediately after defeating Magus - but you do, so it all feels very coherent, like there's a reason everything is in the game. Climbing up Denadoro Mountain to get the hilt of the MacGuffimune Sword is actually the weakest link in the Defeat Magus section of the game.
Main Goal 1: Get Home
- Objective 1: Travel through Truce Canyon because you're stranded there
- Objective 2: Travel through Guardia Forest because you're chasing Marle.
- In the process of trying to complete this goal, you encounter a bigger problem that is worth doing first.
Sub Goal 1A: Correct History
- Objective 1: Travel through Guardia Forest twice because it's in your way.
- Objective 2: Explore the Cathedral because it's the final destination of your current goal.
- Return to Main Goal 1.
Main Goal 1 Continued: Get Home
- Objective 3: Travel through Guardia Forest and Truce Canyon again because they're in your way. (These zones take less than two minutes to travel through after you've done them once, so it doesn't feel obnoxious.)
- Temporary success! You are home! Your adventure is over... right?
- In the aftermath, you decide to take your friend home as well. This doesn't go very well and you now once again need to get home.
- Objective 4: Escape from Guardia Castle Prison because you were jailed.
- Objective 5: Travel through Lab 16 because you are stranded in the future and need to find some sort of civilization before you starve.
- Objective 6: Explore Arris Dome because you need to get information, and there's a supercomputer in the basement that can help you find a way home.
- Learn critical game-changing information. Main Goal 1 is abandoned completely at this point.
Main Goal 2: Save the World from Lavos
- Initially, you have no concrete known way to do this. You only know that you need to find a time gate first, so Main Goal 1 effectively becomes a sub-goal of Main Goal 2.
- Objective 1: Travel through Lab 32 because it's in the way.
- Objective 2: Explore the Factory because the time gate in Proto Dome is sealed. This is a transparent attempt at drawing the story out to lengthen the game, but it is done extremely well in that it takes the opportunity to answer many questions the player had about the setting, and reinforces the player's desire to accomplish the new Main Goal.
- After this point the player gets information about a specific way to accomplish the main goal.
Sub Goal 2A: Defeat Magus Before He Can Summon Lavos
- Objective 1: Travel through Heckran's Cave because everyone in Medina is too unfriendly to give you a boat ride.
- Objective 2: Fight your way across Zenan Bridge because the enemy army has occupied the only way into Magus's territory.
- Objective 3: Travel through the Magic Woods in search of information about Magus's weakness.
- Objective 4: Climb Mt. Denadoro to get one half of the MacGuffin.
- Objective 5: Explore the Mystic Mountain Pass in 65MBC in search of the second half of the MacGuffin.
- In the process of completing this objective, your means of travel is stolen.
Sub Goal 2B: Retrieve the Gate Key
- You are forced to reacquire your means of travel. This is, again, a transparent attempt to lengthen the game. But like the Factory, it's also more than that: it's building a new setting, and making you spend time there, and making you interact heavily with the main characters of the setting, so that you'll already care about this setting later when it becomes really important.
- Objective 1: Track the thief through the Forest Maze.
- Objective 2: Explore the Reptite Lair because it's the final destination of your current goal.
- Objective 3: Travel through Mystic Mountain again to reach the time gate and return to Sub Goal 2A.
Sub Goal 2A Continued: Defeat Magus Before He Can Summon Lavos
- Objective 6: Travel through the Magic Cave because it's in the way.
- Objective 7: Battle through Magus's Castle because it's the final destination of your current goal.
- Whoops, that didn't work.
And then you have the second half of the game after that, because PLOT TWISTS. But do you see how long they drew out the Magus thing? Ten dungeons between learning that you needed to defeat Magus and actually defeating him. The sidetrack to 65MBC would feel extremely disconnected if you didn't get sent back there again immediately after defeating Magus - but you do, so it all feels very coherent, like there's a reason everything is in the game. Climbing up Denadoro Mountain to get the hilt of the MacGuffimune Sword is actually the weakest link in the Defeat Magus section of the game.
I was going to say something like that. CT is in generally speaking a good example of good pacing. But it still has it's highs and lows...
I wouldn't say that is having to climb Denadoro Mountains was one of those low points, though. Not only because that's one of the first in that particular long chain of events, but also because the game needs to establish the Masamune is not your ordinary sword (And what better way to convey this than to place it atop a mountain?). The sword needs to be broken too because the game needs to establish Melchior is not your ordinary blacksmith either. Also, the game needs to introduce the conflict between the humans and Reptites in 65m BC, so the journey there looking for the Dreamstone is justified. So far so good...
But then, acting completely out-of-character, the, uh, characters, get shit-faced and have their Gate-key stolen. This, I believe, was the weakest link of that entire arch. Not only because the game could do without that silly occurrence and the two-dungeon long tangent. But also because you're stranded there. And if you're under-leveled and/or under-equipped, you have no other option but to grind, and engage in that time-consuming barter system, before you can overcome that obstacle... The whole thing just feels like a chore. And it's exactly the kind of thing that needs to be avoided when planning the story of a game.
@AlexanderXCIII: I didn't mean to say gameplay needs to be "limited" to just those things. But that you don't have to introduce filler gameplay just because you feel like connecting the dots between one event/location and another. If the plot of a game calls for the heroes to climb Mount Snow, let it be for a 'good' reason, not for 'whatever' reason.
I wouldn't say that is having to climb Denadoro Mountains was one of those low points, though. Not only because that's one of the first in that particular long chain of events, but also because the game needs to establish the Masamune is not your ordinary sword (And what better way to convey this than to place it atop a mountain?). The sword needs to be broken too because the game needs to establish Melchior is not your ordinary blacksmith either. Also, the game needs to introduce the conflict between the humans and Reptites in 65m BC, so the journey there looking for the Dreamstone is justified. So far so good...
But then, acting completely out-of-character, the, uh, characters, get shit-faced and have their Gate-key stolen. This, I believe, was the weakest link of that entire arch. Not only because the game could do without that silly occurrence and the two-dungeon long tangent. But also because you're stranded there. And if you're under-leveled and/or under-equipped, you have no other option but to grind, and engage in that time-consuming barter system, before you can overcome that obstacle... The whole thing just feels like a chore. And it's exactly the kind of thing that needs to be avoided when planning the story of a game.
@AlexanderXCIII: I didn't mean to say gameplay needs to be "limited" to just those things. But that you don't have to introduce filler gameplay just because you feel like connecting the dots between one event/location and another. If the plot of a game calls for the heroes to climb Mount Snow, let it be for a 'good' reason, not for 'whatever' reason.
matthewac95
55
I appreciate the feedback this thread has gotten, and I'm pleased to see that the information here seems to have been what other people needed as well, not just myself.
I do just want to comment, though, that in my original post I wasn't endorsing the idea that a game's story should have a bunch of random fetch quests in order to progress the plot, but I understand how it seemed that way since I guess I didn't articulate the idea well. I'm one to think that everything that happens in a story should happen for a reason, and should in some way be connected to the overarching objective; my difficulty was in coming up with the "everything"s that happen.
I do just want to comment, though, that in my original post I wasn't endorsing the idea that a game's story should have a bunch of random fetch quests in order to progress the plot, but I understand how it seemed that way since I guess I didn't articulate the idea well. I'm one to think that everything that happens in a story should happen for a reason, and should in some way be connected to the overarching objective; my difficulty was in coming up with the "everything"s that happen.
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