FUNDAMENTAL RPGOLOGY THREAD

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This is the follow-up discussion for the game design event Fundamental RPGology

Once again, thanks to everyone who took part to the contest, or couldn't but still want to talk about it!

Many awesome ideas have been exchanged and more are certainly to come. Feel free to use this thread to discuss each other's entries, ideas that you could not implement, or anything else that could make a contribution to the discussion on how to improve, refine and expand the design of RPG battle systems!

Contest entries:

Here are links to all the accepted entries, sorted by author in alphabetical order (protest if I forgot you!). Many can be found on the main event page but some have their own gamepage, so it's better to centralize everything here.

AegixDrakan: Delusions of Duty - Gamepage

azalathemad: External link

caparo: Battle System Experiment
+list of states and skills

Cap_H: Mace Blue Arena

Karin's soulkeeper: Karin's battle system - Gamepage

Marrend: Oracle of Askigaga Duel test - Gamepage

NeverSilent: The Campaign - Contest Version - Gamepage

rosesarecrimson: Queen of the Ring - External link

Treason89: 3xT - Three Treason Theories - Gamepage


Latecomers:


LouisCyphre: Essence Enforcer Battle Demo - External link
+ Essence Enforcer - Battle Demo Guide
Still not working despite judges asking for a reupload, so out of the competition, but worth discussing once reuploaded


Announcements:


Results

Gold: Azalathemad
Silver: Aegix_Drakan
Bronze: NeverSilent


Scores:

Azalathemad - 236
Aegix_Drakan - 172
NeverSilent - 161
Karin's Soulkeeper - 141
3xT: Elements- 127
3xT: DoT - 122
caparo - 120
3xT: Lens - 97
Cap_H - 96
Marrend - 92

rosesarecrimson - not judged because it seems the implementation is not working according to the ideas
LouisCyphre - not working at all.
LouisCyphre
can't make a bad game if you don't finish any games
4523
I'd like to accept your offer to amend my entry with the following documentation.

Essence Enforcer -- Battle Demo Guide

EDIT: Shinan has discovered my negligence. Overwrite the Graphics subfolder entirely with the contents of this zip file.
I gave all of them a quick whirl. Two were missing files: Essence Enforcer (some strange ethan picture was missing?) and Karin's Battle System. Queen of the Ring was also included twice in the file for some reason, it also was missing some script thingie when I talked to one of the side characters.

I also didn't read any of the tutorials which I probably should have because most of the games were pretty indeciphrable at first glance. For example the Battle System Experiment which was probably well thought out with symbols and stuff but since I am lazy and didn't read the documentation I couldn't figure out a whole lot. (Some came after playing but there was just so much!)

On the other hand was the Delusions of Duty where the battle was long enough that after only a couple of staggering steps I could more or less guess what was going on. I guess Delusions of Duty was the one that impressed me the most since it seemed clear and intuitive enough. Though some of the skill unlocks seemed obscure. I wasn't always sure if a skill would unlock another or not even though it said it would probably had to do with parry effects or something, so I didn't really plan much in advance what I was going to do because I rarely saw further than one move ahead.

Three Treason Theories and Queen of the Ring were completely indeciphrable for me. Three Treason Theories I noticed that it had documentation and even some in game explanations that I didn't bother with so that was completely my own fault and laziness.

Mace Blue Arena and Duel Test were just rock, paper, scissors variants so I found them pretty uninteresting.

EDIT:
Alright so there was one I forgot and it was The Campaign. That one had a lot of interesting bits in it. In one way better than Delusions of Duty since it had the teamwork component and was more or less as clear as Delusions. Though there were a couple of things that I didn't understand but a quick look at the documentation (afterwards) made me go "oh, okay, it was simple really". But even so a fair amount of it was pretty intuitive. Though one point in Delusions' favour was the fact that I knew all the things the enemy could do which made planning more straightforward. Maybe there was some ability to know in The Campaign but not knowing (for example) how much damage an opponent can take changes the playstyle a little bit at least and it is information that one will know with experience, so it's really only a factor for someone who plays for the first couple of times.
Shinan, what do you mean missing? Is it not downloading, or something?

I don't know what happened, but the download found in the game page is a link to my actual event entry (in the event locker). Maybe that's why...

I'll try to re-upload another copy to the gamepage itself, if the problem persists.
Thanks for the heads up!
It was just missing the RTP, I think? Graphics/System/Window is what it complains about when I start it up.
Oh. Yeah, I did not make it rtp-independent because my net here's too slow. If I did do that, I wouldn't have made it to the deadline! (yes, *that* slow >.<)

Sorry about that though :)


ps. I thought everyone had ace rtp here. Guess I'm proven wrong...
Played two entries so far, I'll join the discussion after I'm through with all.
Not too impressed, but there are plenty more to come :)
NeverSilent
Got any Dexreth amulets?
6133
This thread is a great idea and I'll make sure to follow it closely!

I admit that so far, I have only played one entry (apart from my own), namely Delusions of Duty. While I didn't feel like all skills were equally useful, it was certainly a very interesting approach and good for an exciting battle. In short, I liked it.

Also, thanks for the kind words, Shinan. I know the documentation could and should have been much clearer, and I'm not entirely happy with some aspects of the current Campaign version myself. But I'm glad you found it somewhat interesting nonetheless.
Although it makes sense not to know details about enemies from a "realistic" point of view, you're right that this obscurity makes things less intuitive. I had originally planned to include an item that provides some general information about an enemy (no numbers, just tendencies), but I just didn't have the time to actually make it.

Anyway, I'm excited to hear who won, and I promise to try out some more of the submitted entries.


P.S.: Hasvers, since you linked to my entry in the Event locker instead of the gamepage, I wanted to ask if you could replace the link with this one. Thank you.
LouisCyphre
can't make a bad game if you don't finish any games
4523
The first of many, I imagine! This is what I get for deleting stuff after bug-testing.

Please replace the Graphics file with the contents of this zip file
Hi! Well it seems that the topic is going forward even after the contest! That's cool.

I could play Delusions of Duty, and as I said Aegix, I liked it. Very intuitive, yes! I just don't know how would be possible a system as that to always work... like random battles may not be possible unless the developer think 400 strategies ahead? Putting that aside, an excelent entry.

I've also played Marrend's entry. I gave a glance on it but I couldn't guess the patterns of the fighters. Even so I could get Marrend's idea, so I thought it was enough. Easy and simple. A very good entry.

I also started Karin's Battle system... but I had to work so I haven't got as far as the second battle.

author=Shinan
Three Treason Theories and Queen of the Ring were completely indeciphrable for me.
Excuse me Shinan... Which entry is Queen of the Ring? I can't see it.

I haven't gone for the others, but I'll do soon. About mine? Yeah, 0 intuitiveness there. After some advice I was thinking about doing a tutorial or something like that... but that was outside of my time. My bad. Just feedback if you feel so, I can go better after the contest!

And the good thing is that this gets more exciting now!
author=Treason89
Excuse me Shinan... Which entry is Queen of the Ring? I can't see it.

rosesarecrimson's entry is called that in game. The file is called Fundamental RPGology.
I want to try out everyone else's entries but... I can't...
I'll probably get on to them soon though.

Ps. Turns out that my entry is pretty unbalanced.
how the hell did I not see this? >_<

Oh well...
Please let me know if the judging phase is over, so I can start putting up an update.
NeverSilent
Got any Dexreth amulets?
6133
Since this thread exists to discuss the contest, the entries and the general ideas behind RPG battle systems, I thought I'd ask my fellow participants a question I've been curious about: What rules and goals of the contest had the greatest influence on your submissions?

For me , it was definitely the "No MP" rule, and to a lesser degree the "No regular healing" principle. I had most of the "skill locking/unlocking" covered in my original vision of the battle system, but those other two rules made me rethink and change a lot of things - and for the better, I believe.

Now, my intention is not to blather on about my own entry. I'm interested to hear what aspect of the contest shaped your ideas most. Tell me, please.
That's a good question NeverSilent! I think my entry was heavy influenced about the damage over time idea. RPG use mostly constant damage over time, but it doesn't have to be that way always.

I rarely use items or so and I'm a very lazy healer, so I didn't mind about that, except for that idea of "healing is just going to a starting point". In one of my battles (the only one you can heal) I tried to make a way to heal that would, in turn, be able to heal the enemy or change completely the state of affairs in the battle field (as for attack usually convex lens is needed, but for healing the concave reflective polarized lens is needed, quite the opposite).

I'm also Ok with no MP (a current project I have don't use it) so nothing to mid about either.

Finally something I also had in mind was trying to do a system (I don't know if I succeeded as much as I wanted). Not puzzle like stuff that may not be applicable elsewhere but new ways to interact that can be used with any enemy from a Slime to the Evil Lord-whatever-final boss itself.
author=karins_soulkeeper
I thought everyone had ace rtp here.

D'oh! Nah, I don't have any RTPs other than XP. Looks like I'll be getting this one, though! Your game is up next, just as soon as I get it running. :)

So far I've completed 5 entries, if anyone's really interested in that. XD
Marrend
Guardian of the Description Thread
20691
author=NeverSilent
Since this thread exists to discuss the contest, the entries and the general ideas behind RPG battle systems, I thought I'd ask my fellow participants a question I've been curious about: What rules and goals of the contest had the greatest influence on your submissions?


Mostly, the "no MP" rule and the "there can be no 'best attack'" rule. That's probably what got me started on the rock-scissors-paper thought-process in the first place. Though, the fact that I had most of my system up-and-running in the first place was also, probably, a factor.
What really influenced me was the "no boring old regular healing" rule.

Damage mitigation and recovery is kind of a major thing in RPGs for me, so making a game where I wasn't allowed to use it influenced my work a LOT.

That and the "no pure randomness. You must be able to figure out the enemy" thing. I pushed me to make an actual damn AI. XD
LouisCyphre
can't make a bad game if you don't finish any games
4523
...

I'll zip up a new upload in due time. I am displeased with the editor's compressor.
Wait... there was a 'no best attack' rule?
But I have... four o' them...

Great, now what? >.<


As to neversilent's query:
I didn't have much problems with the rules, honestly. No MP saved me from working with extra numbers. No Spam Healing didn't have much effect either, since I don't like make healing skills that much in the first place. No randomness worked me up in the beginning, since I am a very chance-reliant person when it comes to these stuff. But after a while, I realised that it was not at all that different, so it didn't bug me much anymore later on.

But this doesn't mean it was easy riding all the way for me, of course. It was rather hard to keep things simple, solid, and bug-free; especiallywith the deadline looming over you.

*sigh* this is what I get for procrastinating...
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