CREATE-YOUR-OWN-TEAM OR PREDEFINED CHARACTERS?

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I want to implement a system to create your own team (kinda like in FF1), but doing so would have to re- do a lot of enemies , bosses and also to rebalance skills , but I think it's worth it, what do you think?

Edit:

My game (Cave Adventure ) is a simple "dungeon-crawler"

Besides putting a basic group of 2 attackers, a magician and a healer, also I added several skills and enemies who work around these skills ( enemies with high evasion , high armor, counter physical attacks , resistant to certain elements , etc. (Some skills work better on certain enemies, for example, take aim and quick attack is effective against enemies with high evasion))

Now, several people have told me "where 's the story ?, who are these people ?" When my goal is to make them without personality ...

Then I remembered Final Fantasy 1, you can create your own team , which creates replayability (Many different combinations besides personal challenges as : 4 white mages or solo runs)

The only problem is the balance , my idea of ​​effective skills against certain enemies is hard to do, if I have an enemy made of ​​water resistant to all attacks but thunder? Previously, the magician has the necessary skill , but now , what happens if you choose a group of 4 warriors?

Now , I can do two things: Either do as FF1 where most of the enemies only attack or create the necessary skills for all classes

Both ideas are bad, the first would be simply boring , and the second would make all the classes very similar

(Sorry, google translate)
If this is only about the gameplay, then yes it would be best to tweak the enemies and abilities to make sure that the game is balanced.
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
6138
What a waste of a potentially interesting topic. Try again, but this time at least talk about why you're doing it, the pros and cons you've thought of so far, and why you think it would work in your game.
author=LockeZ
What a waste of a potentially interesting topic. Try again, but this time at least talk about why you're doing it, the pros and cons you've thought of so far, and why you think it would work in your game.


Sorry , I already fixed the OP
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
6138
author=El_WaKa
my idea of ​​effective skills against certain enemies is hard to do, if I have an enemy made of ​​water resistant to all attacks but thunder? Previously, the magician has the necessary skill, but now, what happens if you choose a group of 4 warriors?
This is definitely the most interesting part to me. It's absolutely something you can solve! You just have to be more creative.

The goal here, I think, should probably be to make different classes better at different things. You don't want the player to be unable to progress, but you also don't want having the "right" class to feel useless. You want different classes to be better against different enemies.

One way around this is to make the bonuses be overcomable. For example, take your water enemy. If the enemy takes double damage from lightning attacks, the difference between having one mage and having no mages is only about 25% more damage. Double damage feels like a big deal, but when you only have lightning spells on one of your four characters, the player isn't really doing double damage. The extra damage from a mage feels good, but it will only take one extra hit to kill the enemy without it.

Another way around it is to make multiple ways to defeat an enemy. This is more interesting to me. This will basically mean giving every enemy several properties. You won't ever just make an enemy that's weak to lightning and has nothing else unique about it. You'll make an enemy that's weak to lightning, uses magic sometimes, and heals its allies. Now the player has multiple problems to deal with, so it makes more sense for multiple classes to have solutions. The mage can kill it quickly with lightning damage, the priest can inflict undead status on the enemies so that the healing spells hurt them, the rogue can cut the enemy's throat to silence it, or the warrior can put up a barrier to reflect magic attacks. The key will be to make most of the enemies in the game have multiple properties like this, and give each class several abilities that deal with different enemy properties. This will also make the battles a lot more interesting in general!

Of course, no matter what you do, sometimes the player just won't have any of the abilities that would be useful. The good news is, this is an RPG. The player can always grind to become stronger if he or she is having trouble. It's okay for some of the battles to be hard, as long as they're still beatable.

Remember you can also give the player some limited consumable items, like elixirs and silence grenades. Or have powerful summon abilities or limit breaks, letting a class do things they couldn't normall do, that can be used only once every twenty battles or so. These won't permanently make up for the lack of a certain class, but they can help a player who's having trouble - the help just comes at a cost.
author=LockeZ
Another way around it is to make multiple ways to defeat an enemy.


Thank you ! I'll try to work on this idea for bosses , common enemies will be like:

author=LockeZ
One way around this is to make the bonuses be overcomable. For example, take your water enemy. If the enemy takes double damage from lightning attacks, the difference between having one mage and having no mages is only about 25% more damage.
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
6138
If you want more specific ideas for bosses, please allow me to shamelessly plug my boss design thread.
author=LockeZ
If you want more specific ideas for bosses, please allow me to shamelessly plug my boss design thread.


Thanks , I will try to implement the new system (Redo skills , create new classes ...) and then I will work on the balance, then maybe I'll send you a PM
If characters have no personality, you have to make your own team. Now, what would be interesting is if you had some flags (maybe the accessories slot has something class specific). That why "if you have a cleric in the party" they say certain lines.
author=bulmabriefs144
If characters have no personality, you have to make your own team. Now, what would be interesting is if you had some flags (maybe the accessories slot has something class specific). That why "if you have a cleric in the party" they say certain lines.


Yeah, I was thinking about adding this, where the characters say something different depending on the classes you have

But it will be for the next game
Isrieri
"My father told me this would happen."
6155
If you're going to create your own team I as a player would appreciate it if there was a way to customize them beyond just choosing their class (Final Fantasy isn't the best example of how to do customization).

The usual benefit of pre-made characters is that you can flesh them out to the benefit of the storyline and really make them into characters you can love or love to hate. With ones you create at the game's outset, that story factor is no longer in your control and belongs to the player. Their dialogue, motivations, and personalities are determined by the player's imagination and actions. Which is a good thing to bear in mind when writing the story or creating dialogue options.

Thus, full customization down to adjustable base stats, and maybe even the ability to write a little synopsis of who they are, is usually the way to go. The more ways you allow players to tinker with them, the better.
Max McGee
with sorrow down past the fence
9219
Having played Cave Adventure and made games with extensive character customization, I think you should absolutely add party creation to Cave Adventure. Go for it!
author=LockeZ
If the enemy takes double damage from lightning attacks, the difference between having one mage and having no mages is only about 25% more damage.

This is not always true.

"Another way around it is to make multiple ways to defeat an enemy..." <= this is a good way to go about it. Here are a few scenarios you can use to identify what are the optimal options a given character can take at a given time against a given enemy.
Suppose the characters act in the following order:

Scenario A
-Warrior attacks: 150 dmg
-Monk attack: 200 dmg
-Thief attacks: 50 dmg
-Mage casts Thunder: 100 dmg (+100 due to weakness) = 200 dmg
Total dmg: 600. The Thunder dmg corresponds to 200/600 = 33% of the total dmg dealt.

Scenario B
-Warrior attacks: 50 dmg
-Time Mage attacks: 25 dmg
-Thief attacks: 25 dmg
-Mage casts Thunder: 100 dmg (+100 due to weakness) = 200 dmg
Total dmg: 300. Thunder is 200/300 = 66% of the total dmg dealt.

Now what if the enemy has...

1. 500 HP in Scenario A: The Thief's attack is useless because it's overkill. The Thief's optimal option here might rather be to Steal a Coral Ring from the enemy.

2. 400 HP in Scenario B: The first round won't kill him. Two Thunder spells will, which makes the Warrior's, Time Mage's and Thief's attacks all useless. For instance, the Time Mage's optimal action here could be to cast Haste on the Mage in hopes the enemy won't get a turn to attack (in an ATB system).

And we could also consider equipment, twin classes and the enemy's actions in order to make the scenarios even more accurate.
In other words, don't forget to take all variables into account when you design a battle. Killing an enemy in one hit before it can act is usually the best option when your goal is to win the fight, and that's what most players are likely to go for.
author=Avee
In other words, don't forget to take all variables into account when you design a battle.


Hmm... interesting, thanks!

I have a particular case, an enemy that is type "ghost " attacks with magic and can only be damaged by magic attacks ( and has little HP, easy job for the magician )

Now with the new system , it is the same but I added a new event, when he runs out of MP he will escape the battle, what do you think? of course, the amount of MP will not be very high ( and at least 3 classes can use magic now )
It should be fine. Having at least 3 out of 4 characters who are "reliable" in any situation should be plenty. Likewise, having at least 3 characters who can do decent physical damage is a good thing. And you can always promote the use of a balanced party by having an NPC say so or something.

A character who doesn't have the means to deal decent damage against a given enemy should still have access to abilities that may come in handy. Like Steal mentioned earlier, or buffs, state-inflicting abilities, etc.
Focusing on dealing damage every time is not fun anyway.
Max McGee
with sorrow down past the fence
9219
I have a particular case, an enemy that is type "ghost " attacks with magic and can only be damaged by magic attacks ( and has little HP, easy job for the magician )

Now with the new system , it is the same but I added a new event, when he runs out of MP he will escape the battle, what do you think? of course, the amount of MP will not be very high ( and at least 3 classes can use magic now )


PCs can escape, right? I mean as long as an all-physical party can run away from this battle, and this battle doesn't happen all the damn time, then that's fine.

Also, magic weapons should probably be a thing for warrior types.
author=Avee
A character who doesn't have the means to deal decent damage against a given enemy should still have access to abilities that may come in handy. Like Steal mentioned earlier, or buffs, state-inflicting abilities, etc.
Focusing on dealing damage every time is not fun anyway.
author=Max McGee
Also, magic weapons should probably be a thing for warrior types.

Good ideas

Here is another: Let's say this is a ghost boss , what to do for any team to have a chance against him? I was thinking it would have two phases, one physical phase, and a magical phase , remember Siren ? in FF5 ? She is constantly changing shape , being weak to magic or physical attacks depending on the form it took, I think a boss like this would be a good addition as no matter the team you have, you will have an opportunity (and if you have a balanced team much better )
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
6138
author=El_WaKa
I have a particular case, an enemy that is type "ghost " attacks with magic and can only be damaged by magic attacks ( and has little HP, easy job for the magician )

Now with the new system , it is the same but I added a new event, when he runs out of MP he will escape the battle, what do you think? of course, the amount of MP will not be very high ( and at least 3 classes can use magic now )


This idea isn't bad. I definitely like the idea of having an alternative way of letting the player dealing with enemies, and running out of MP is an interesting one, and it might work as long as the enemy MP is pretty low. But it could also result in a lot of situations where the player just has to sit there and do nothing for a few rounds after all the non-ghost enemies are dead. You may want to also have usable items that cast a magic spell, as long as they're weak and expensive, or unbuyable and limited in quantity.

In one of my games I actually have a party member who is a ghost and can't be hurt by physical attacks. The way I handle it is to always automatically count her as "dead" for the purposes of winning/losing the battle. If she's the only one left, you get a game over. This would be a good way of handlng the enemies in your game if you are looking for an alternative to the MP idea. Make it so the player simply has to kill all the non-ghost enemies, instead of having to kill them all and then sitting around on their ass waiting for the ghost to run out of MP. But be sure to give the magic-using ghosts a lot of offensive power (or a major status ailment or some other very useful skill), and pretty low HP, so that it's ideal for mages to kill them first even though they don't actually have to be killed.
author=LockeZ
You may want to also have usable items that cast a magic spell, as long as they're weak and expensive, or unbuyable and limited in quantity.


I added objects that teach magic and magic weapons, also I will keep the MP => Escape method, thanks!
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