Full Games List
Featured Games
New Games
Reviews
Media
Images
Blogs
Game Updates
Images Feedback Summary
Game Design Highlights
Tutorials
Articles
Scripts
Utilities / Plugins
Resources
Engines
Engine Bulletins
What is Makerscore?
Past Events
Achievements
Misaos
Forums
Post History
Chat
New to RMN?
Full Store List
RMN Music Pack (free)
WHAT COULD BE SOME OF THE HARDEST DECISIONS THAT KINGS MIGHT HAVE HAD TO MAKE?
Posts
KhaliCanvas Studios
View playlists
Close
Niiiiiiiiice~
My sassometer just hit 11! XD
Usually the divide between personal want and what is best for the kingdom is something that they have to struggle with - it definitely shows the character of a ruler, whether they'll do what needs to be done (and how they handle it after the fact) for the good of the people or are selfish and do what they want without regard for how their people will react/be hurt from the decision.
For example, love is usually a big one. If the King is in love with one person but has been arranged to marry for the sake of an alliance, what they do and how they approach the aftermath tells a lot of their character. Do they go through with the alliance but dally behind the back of their spouse with the woman they loved? This could cause skism in the marriage and could lead to her not wanting to have his children. A King with no official heir isn't much. And what if he doesn't dally, but instead takes it out on her, hurting her? If her family hears of it, will they retaliate in some way? Politics, man, it can get deadly when you play in the arena of kings.
What if he marries the love of his life? Perhaps the alliance falls apart and the other country retaliates with war or trade embargoes. Either can be deadly for a country if the populace get into their heads that things would be better with someone else on the throne.
And what if they don't invade but the loved wife was barren instead? Would he put her aside for a new queen so that an heir could be obtained, steal/adopt a child to raise as his own (not looked apon well by blood purists) or stay adamant that he will keep her by his side? And if he puts her aside, what happens if she betrays his secrets out of bitterness or kills herself (thus afflicting him with depression)?
And that's not getting into the political arena where your Lords want as much as they can get out of you. Some can be trusted, some can't and some wouldn't know the meaning of the word. Yet you have to deal with them because they provide money and arms and men and food and trade items. Cut one off and there will be an imbalance. It's a very hard act to balance. Never mind spies and other people trying to claim your throne in some underhanded ways.
Go read some high fantasy books dude. You learn so much. And no, don't do the whole 'ugh but fantasy is fantasy' thing that a lot of people do. A fantasy writer has it harder than a non-fiction writer because their worlds have to be as realistic as possible so that people will lose themselves in the illusion of them being 'real'. You have to know so much and understand a lot about all the things you write on. It's a lot of studying and learning and researching involved, so you can learn a hell of a lot about all kinds of subjects from them. Especially kingships.
A good series is the Trilogy Trilogy by Robin Hobbs (it's basically three trilogies that tie together into a full story). The first trilogy is good for kingship business - as is the third trilogy. The second is more about ships and sailing (though it's still really good.)
Also, Game of Thrones is great for the nitty gritty. George RR Martin.
Oh, and David Eddings. His writing is weird in that his characters are very similar in each series (he writes by pattern, and you'll recognise tropes between them that he uses) so just reading one of his series will probably work. I'd suggest either the Belgariad/Malloreon series or the Ellenium/Tamul series (each is two series that are linked together.)
Lastly, I suggest the Bone Doll's Twin and it's other two books by Lynn Flewelling. It's a really interesting series that examines court life.
Oh and of course the Song of the Lioness series by Tamora Pierce. It's YA, skewed a bit more towards kids, but it's pretty good.
...there are so many books I could recommend. >.<;
My sassometer just hit 11! XD
Usually the divide between personal want and what is best for the kingdom is something that they have to struggle with - it definitely shows the character of a ruler, whether they'll do what needs to be done (and how they handle it after the fact) for the good of the people or are selfish and do what they want without regard for how their people will react/be hurt from the decision.
For example, love is usually a big one. If the King is in love with one person but has been arranged to marry for the sake of an alliance, what they do and how they approach the aftermath tells a lot of their character. Do they go through with the alliance but dally behind the back of their spouse with the woman they loved? This could cause skism in the marriage and could lead to her not wanting to have his children. A King with no official heir isn't much. And what if he doesn't dally, but instead takes it out on her, hurting her? If her family hears of it, will they retaliate in some way? Politics, man, it can get deadly when you play in the arena of kings.
What if he marries the love of his life? Perhaps the alliance falls apart and the other country retaliates with war or trade embargoes. Either can be deadly for a country if the populace get into their heads that things would be better with someone else on the throne.
And what if they don't invade but the loved wife was barren instead? Would he put her aside for a new queen so that an heir could be obtained, steal/adopt a child to raise as his own (not looked apon well by blood purists) or stay adamant that he will keep her by his side? And if he puts her aside, what happens if she betrays his secrets out of bitterness or kills herself (thus afflicting him with depression)?
And that's not getting into the political arena where your Lords want as much as they can get out of you. Some can be trusted, some can't and some wouldn't know the meaning of the word. Yet you have to deal with them because they provide money and arms and men and food and trade items. Cut one off and there will be an imbalance. It's a very hard act to balance. Never mind spies and other people trying to claim your throne in some underhanded ways.
Go read some high fantasy books dude. You learn so much. And no, don't do the whole 'ugh but fantasy is fantasy' thing that a lot of people do. A fantasy writer has it harder than a non-fiction writer because their worlds have to be as realistic as possible so that people will lose themselves in the illusion of them being 'real'. You have to know so much and understand a lot about all the things you write on. It's a lot of studying and learning and researching involved, so you can learn a hell of a lot about all kinds of subjects from them. Especially kingships.
A good series is the Trilogy Trilogy by Robin Hobbs (it's basically three trilogies that tie together into a full story). The first trilogy is good for kingship business - as is the third trilogy. The second is more about ships and sailing (though it's still really good.)
Also, Game of Thrones is great for the nitty gritty. George RR Martin.
Oh, and David Eddings. His writing is weird in that his characters are very similar in each series (he writes by pattern, and you'll recognise tropes between them that he uses) so just reading one of his series will probably work. I'd suggest either the Belgariad/Malloreon series or the Ellenium/Tamul series (each is two series that are linked together.)
Lastly, I suggest the Bone Doll's Twin and it's other two books by Lynn Flewelling. It's a really interesting series that examines court life.
Oh and of course the Song of the Lioness series by Tamora Pierce. It's YA, skewed a bit more towards kids, but it's pretty good.
...there are so many books I could recommend. >.<;
"my son is a retarded buffoon, how do I kill him so my second eldest son inherits the kingdom when I die without looking like I was responsible for his death?"
- me, playing ck2
"I want to marry Anne but the pope won't annul my current marriage to Cathrine, what do I do?"
- King Henry the VIII
- me, playing ck2
"I want to marry Anne but the pope won't annul my current marriage to Cathrine, what do I do?"
- King Henry the VIII
Study any leader that has ever gone down in history as a monster. You'll find a good intention that degraded into an avalanche of atrocities. The easiest decisions turn out to be the ones you wish you'd never made. Once the decision is made, though, the hardest decision is to stay the course. Failure to do so ends in disaster.
One of my favorite book series, but I don't know that it's such a good example in the area of good decision making. The next bit has spoilers, so I'm putting it in a hide tag.
author=Liberty
Oh and of course the Song of the Lioness series by Tamora Pierce. It's YA, skewed a bit more towards kids, but it's pretty good.
One of my favorite book series, but I don't know that it's such a good example in the area of good decision making. The next bit has spoilers, so I'm putting it in a hide tag.
The consequences of decisions aren't really explored. The only people we actually meet that hold Alanna's decisions against her are King Roald, who we never really get to know, and Duke Roger, who's a murderous psychopath anyway. Virtually all of Alanna's angst at having pretended to be a man is self-inflicted, and she never really comes face to face with any of the consequences of that decision. All she encounters are passing glances; learning that the K'mir thought she should have been stoned, or burned alive--strangers she had never and never would meet--, Duke Roger's insistence that she was a traitor (appropriately having just been caught committing treason; the pot clearly didn't know it's own color.). Likewise, where difficult decisions are made, they're circumvented by other characters, anyway; King Roald's edict being the shield Duke Roger uses not to rescue Alanna, Prince John defies that order and does it anyway. If there was ever a hard decision made in that series, it was Alanna's decision to pursue the Dominion Jewel during a blizzard, which meant betraying Liam's trust in the worst possible way, but that only really led to a breakup. There's no way to tell whether everything else that happened between Alanna and Liam was the result of that decision; they continued to be friends, he stayed along with her on her way home, and fought alongside Prince John, and then made sure she knew that he already knew his future.
Hunting was practically made for 'losing' heirs. Send 'em out on a boar hunt then have one of the hunters either poison his lunch goblet or 'help' him fall into a boar.
A carriage running off a cliff due to the horses 'spooking' works too.
Political opponent being set up as assassin gets rid of two.
'Accident' during a jousting tournament held in honour of his birthday.
'Fell' overboard on a ship journey.
'Honour' him by making him the head of an armed unit at the front lines and have the communications 'fail' at an 'inopportune' moment.
The ol' 'snake got in his bed' trick.
'Caught him fornicating with a goat'.
Oh dear, he can't have kids (because he was fed a certain kind of poison that slowly gets rid of that ability). Looks like he can't be king.
Oops, he went ice skating on thin ice in winter (read, salted the lake and let him be the first to 'break' the ice... so to speak).
Good old 'bandit attack'.
Hell, just hire an assassin. Easy done~ Just make sure they're very good at their job and won't be traced back to you. :D
If you want a fail-safe way, though, set him up for treason and behead him. That way you know for sure he won't be suddenly reappearing any time soon.
The ways are many and varied. ;p
@piano: true, but it does give a good insight into the knighthood and how they (and the court) was supposed to behave. It's a basic look, though, so good for easing beginners into the subject. Plus, it's fun. XD
A carriage running off a cliff due to the horses 'spooking' works too.
Political opponent being set up as assassin gets rid of two.
'Accident' during a jousting tournament held in honour of his birthday.
'Fell' overboard on a ship journey.
'Honour' him by making him the head of an armed unit at the front lines and have the communications 'fail' at an 'inopportune' moment.
The ol' 'snake got in his bed' trick.
'Caught him fornicating with a goat'.
Oh dear, he can't have kids (because he was fed a certain kind of poison that slowly gets rid of that ability). Looks like he can't be king.
Oops, he went ice skating on thin ice in winter (read, salted the lake and let him be the first to 'break' the ice... so to speak).
Good old 'bandit attack'.
Hell, just hire an assassin. Easy done~ Just make sure they're very good at their job and won't be traced back to you. :D
If you want a fail-safe way, though, set him up for treason and behead him. That way you know for sure he won't be suddenly reappearing any time soon.
The ways are many and varied. ;p
@piano: true, but it does give a good insight into the knighthood and how they (and the court) was supposed to behave. It's a basic look, though, so good for easing beginners into the subject. Plus, it's fun. XD
@Liberty: Yes, it was fun, and Alanna was so wonderfully impulsive all the way through to the end. Actually, thinking about it, there was one very hard decision that Alanna refused to make to the very end; the decision to be herself.
Let me tell you about
- how clogs in the system, despite being made up of shit, are amazing durable
- assassins one and all are horrible at their job
- the horrors of getting the kinslayer trait (successful kin slaying not required!)
I had better luck rolling the dice hoping he'd get captured fighting Muslims and letting him rot in prison for eternity. I learned to just send unhopefuls to become priests when they're kids to remove them from the succession line
- how clogs in the system, despite being made up of shit, are amazing durable
- assassins one and all are horrible at their job
- the horrors of getting the kinslayer trait (successful kin slaying not required!)
I had better luck rolling the dice hoping he'd get captured fighting Muslims and letting him rot in prison for eternity. I learned to just send unhopefuls to become priests when they're kids to remove them from the succession line
Gah, now I wanna re-read Protector of the Small!
Is being a king much different than being, like, an elected President or Prime Minister? Like, you gotta do your best to make sure your subjects support you because you need them to accomplish your goals, whether those goals are for your kingdom or for your personal interests. Do you attempt to win their support through honesty and representing their best interests? Do you win them over through brute force and fear? Or do you act as if you have their best interest while subtly manipulating them as much as possible to reinforce your position?
Is being a king much different than being, like, an elected President or Prime Minister? Like, you gotta do your best to make sure your subjects support you because you need them to accomplish your goals, whether those goals are for your kingdom or for your personal interests. Do you attempt to win their support through honesty and representing their best interests? Do you win them over through brute force and fear? Or do you act as if you have their best interest while subtly manipulating them as much as possible to reinforce your position?
Or are you just innately entitled to the extravagance of lordship and the kinddom is your personal playground and coinpurse?
emmych
817
Honestly, I would go back and research real monarchs during times of tension (during a war, a revolution, etc.) throughout history. Fiction is great for researching what makes for good drama, but it's, eeehhh... not great for stuff that actually happens.
And before you dismiss actual history as being "boring" or NOT having enough drama, BOY HOWDY do I have news for you. History is fascinating, historical figures are fascinating, and I can tell ya that I have not regretted the switch from fantasy novels to historical texts one little bit. That shit's engaging as all hell and educational as fuck when it comes to writing your own stories!
And before you dismiss actual history as being "boring" or NOT having enough drama, BOY HOWDY do I have news for you. History is fascinating, historical figures are fascinating, and I can tell ya that I have not regretted the switch from fantasy novels to historical texts one little bit. That shit's engaging as all hell and educational as fuck when it comes to writing your own stories!
Just think about how shitty corrupt selfish horrible and depraved people act these days... and then realize they have ALWAYS been this bad OR WORSE.
Also read Cartoon History of the Universe for a ffun history primer.
Also read Cartoon History of the Universe for a ffun history primer.
author=emmych
Honestly, I would go back and research real monarchs during times of tension (during a war, a revolution, etc.) throughout history. Fiction is great for researching what makes for good drama, but it's, eeehhh... not great for stuff that actually happens.
And before you dismiss actual history as being "boring" or NOT having enough drama, BOY HOWDY do I have news for you. History is fascinating, historical figures are fascinating, and I can tell ya that I have not regretted the switch from fantasy novels to historical texts one little bit. That shit's engaging as all hell and educational as fuck when it comes to writing your own stories!
Except that it is since a hell of a lot of research goes in to making it realistic. You know, because assholes tend to complain when fictional fantasy isn't realistic. Like, "<insert wheezing noises here>Obviously the succession would have played out differently if the Prince had married x woman instead of y, but it's so unrealistic how y didn't do z when she could have!" or "It'd be more realistic if he just cut off all their heads. This is stupid. So unrealistic. 1/10."
-_-
author=kentonaauthor=Libertyhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Ship
'Fell' overboard on a ship journey.
XD
I misread that initially and thought it said the prince survived, so my immediate thought was "Someone is an RPG hero." XD
Then I reread. Nope. :<
author=Liberty
If you want a fail-safe way, though, set him up for treason and behead him. That way you know for sure he won't be suddenly reappearing any time soon.
This reminds me of Peter the Great. Tzar of Russia around the 1700s.
OP dude: Read about Peter the Great. Guy was crazy. Not that he was crazy in the head (although maybe a little bit I dunno) he just did some crazy things during his reign. For instance: Wandered around Europe for a bit to see how they did things, so that he might bring back that culture to Russia and advance it culutrally and technologically. But his disguise was terrible: Pretended to be a carpenter to fool the people he interviewed on the streets...with an entourage of guards, servants, and ministers in tow.
Oh but wait a minute I lost my train of thought: Liberty reminded me of him because his son, Alexi (I THINK?! Its been a while, I'm bad with names) went and ran off with some maid he fell in love with; his father was totally against it but the noblemen that didn't like Peter convinced Alexi that they'd back him on his true love as long as he "remembered" their "help" later when he became king.
And then Peter sent the army to go get Alexi, put him on trial for treason, and killed him. Not quite the same thing cuz I'm sure Peter didn't really want to, but its one of those decisions you've got to make when you're a king.
Speaking of actual people to research who had to make some really awful decisions and really didn't have a choice:
Peter the Great, as Isrieri said...
Richard I, the Lion Heart (The Crusade king who was imprisoned and tortured in Jerusalem)
Ivan the Terrible (Try being forced to murder your family in order to save your country.)
Genghis Khan (Try having to survive by drinking the blood of the first horse you personally raised from a colt)
Boudicca (Try being forced to watch Roman soldiers rape your daughters)
For historical figures who are more myth than legend:
King Ban of Benoic (So, could you arrange to have your own head buried at the gates of your city?)
Fionn MacCumhail (Try knowingly marching to your death)
Hector of Troy (Try having to cross swords with the greatest warrior in the world because your brother couldn't keep his junk in his pants)
For cross-reference, let's look at a few people who couldn't make the hard decisions.
Lief Ericsson founded the first American colony. His sister led a rebellion...twice. They all had to leave because Lief didn't have the heart to put his own sister to death.
Juan Peron: Everyone always suspected his wife was the real ruler of Argentina, and when Eva Peron died, it was proven. She kept the country in line, running charity, making sure everybody had everything they needed from running water to medicine, and brutally silencing dissenters. When Juan was on his own, the regime fell apart because all he knew how to do was steal and do what the typical politician does.
Peter the Great, as Isrieri said...
Richard I, the Lion Heart (The Crusade king who was imprisoned and tortured in Jerusalem)
Ivan the Terrible (Try being forced to murder your family in order to save your country.)
Genghis Khan (Try having to survive by drinking the blood of the first horse you personally raised from a colt)
Boudicca (Try being forced to watch Roman soldiers rape your daughters)
For historical figures who are more myth than legend:
King Ban of Benoic (So, could you arrange to have your own head buried at the gates of your city?)
Fionn MacCumhail (Try knowingly marching to your death)
Hector of Troy (Try having to cross swords with the greatest warrior in the world because your brother couldn't keep his junk in his pants)
For cross-reference, let's look at a few people who couldn't make the hard decisions.
Lief Ericsson founded the first American colony. His sister led a rebellion...twice. They all had to leave because Lief didn't have the heart to put his own sister to death.
Juan Peron: Everyone always suspected his wife was the real ruler of Argentina, and when Eva Peron died, it was proven. She kept the country in line, running charity, making sure everybody had everything they needed from running water to medicine, and brutally silencing dissenters. When Juan was on his own, the regime fell apart because all he knew how to do was steal and do what the typical politician does.
War, actually.
There's a lot of examples of historical rules who got their rocks off constant conflict and such, and of course there have been wars that could be argued as necessary and inevitable (wars against invasions, etc), but there's countless instances throughout history where the decision to go to war or not isn't so clear cut. This is especially considering wise rulers who had a lot to think about whether or not it would be wise to commit their country to conflict.
You're a ruler of Nation A, and Nation B is antagonistic towards your nation, but doesn't want to engage your country directly, but instead ceases vital trade with your nation and takes over nearby arable land and fishing. If you don't do something, your people will starve. Will you send your country to war to defend your country's assets? Either way, people will die.
In the modern era, these scenarios don't exist too much anymore, so it's easy to consider war as a last of a last resort for most everything, but hundreds of years ago or longer, these sort of things happened all the time. As a ruler, you had some tough choices to make.
There's a lot of examples of historical rules who got their rocks off constant conflict and such, and of course there have been wars that could be argued as necessary and inevitable (wars against invasions, etc), but there's countless instances throughout history where the decision to go to war or not isn't so clear cut. This is especially considering wise rulers who had a lot to think about whether or not it would be wise to commit their country to conflict.
You're a ruler of Nation A, and Nation B is antagonistic towards your nation, but doesn't want to engage your country directly, but instead ceases vital trade with your nation and takes over nearby arable land and fishing. If you don't do something, your people will starve. Will you send your country to war to defend your country's assets? Either way, people will die.
In the modern era, these scenarios don't exist too much anymore, so it's easy to consider war as a last of a last resort for most everything, but hundreds of years ago or longer, these sort of things happened all the time. As a ruler, you had some tough choices to make.
Corfaisus
"It's frustrating because - as much as Corf is otherwise an irredeemable person - his 2k/3 mapping is on point." ~ psy_wombats
7874
author=Libertyauthor=kentonaXDauthor=Libertyhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Ship
'Fell' overboard on a ship journey.
I misread that initially and thought it said the prince survived, so my immediate thought was "Someone is an RPG hero." XD
Then I reread. Nope. :<
Not as bad as what I thought. "How old? 17? You don't know how to swim, you stupid shit?"
To be fair, swimming in the ocean is a lot different than swimming in a calm river or lake. And a lot of countries don't teach swimming to their kids even today, so back then it probably wasn't something a lot of people knew. I'd be surprised if he knew anything beyond how to paddle in waist-length water, tbh.
