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SORTING SKILLS/MAGIC IN YOUR RPG
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CloseI was just curious about preferences with regards to skills/special moves/magic in your games, especially how you sort them. If you have physical and magic abilities, is it cool to just put all of them in one generic "Skills" command, or would you rather see separate "Physical" and "Magic" commands or something similar?
When it comes to what order the skills appear in, do you just put them in the order that the character learns them? Or do you group skills by use, perhaps sticking all the healing moves together and all the buffs together etc?
I don't know if there's a best way or right way to do any of this, so I was curious to see how everyone handles it ^_^
When it comes to what order the skills appear in, do you just put them in the order that the character learns them? Or do you group skills by use, perhaps sticking all the healing moves together and all the buffs together etc?
I don't know if there's a best way or right way to do any of this, so I was curious to see how everyone handles it ^_^
Red_Nova
Sir Redd of Novus: He who made Prayer of the Faithless that one time, and that was pretty dang rad! :D
9192
For my current project, I'm separating weapon skills (like a double slash or state-inflicting physical attacks) into one generic skill category. Then I place more unique and nuanced skills into a separate category. Some characters can use magic, others can use skills that swap their own classes mid-battle to change the abilities in their Skill category. Each category makes the player's strategy different, so switching categories can help with switching mentalities and hopefully subtly coax players to think differently.
I like what you said about separating physical and magic skills the most. I would also like to see separations like offensive and defensive. Or Attack skills and State-inflicting skills.
If there are skills that work off each other (like one skill that staggers opponents and another that deals increased damage to staggered opponents), then I feel like those could be their own category.
EDIT: One of the things I remember fondly about Final Fantasy 6 was that each character had their own skill set. It would have been easy to just put everything under a generic Ability category and be done with it, but naming every skill branch differently help diversify the characters. To me, at least. So one approach could be just eschewing different skill categories, and just have one category per character with it's own name.
I like what you said about separating physical and magic skills the most. I would also like to see separations like offensive and defensive. Or Attack skills and State-inflicting skills.
If there are skills that work off each other (like one skill that staggers opponents and another that deals increased damage to staggered opponents), then I feel like those could be their own category.
EDIT: One of the things I remember fondly about Final Fantasy 6 was that each character had their own skill set. It would have been easy to just put everything under a generic Ability category and be done with it, but naming every skill branch differently help diversify the characters. To me, at least. So one approach could be just eschewing different skill categories, and just have one category per character with it's own name.
As far as databasing is concerned, I've tended to put techniques first, then follow up with magic. Thus, splitting them up into different skill-categories make sense to me. They use different stats anyway!
I've also tended to list things in the order they are learned in for the sake of convenience. In the case of Okiku, Star Apprentice and Oracle of Askigaga, the sort-order was to have one skill, follow it by it's evolutions, then the next skill, it's evolutions, and so forth.
I've also tended to list things in the order they are learned in for the sake of convenience. In the case of Okiku, Star Apprentice and Oracle of Askigaga, the sort-order was to have one skill, follow it by it's evolutions, then the next skill, it's evolutions, and so forth.
Red_Nova
Sir Redd of Novus: He who made Prayer of the Faithless that one time, and that was pretty dang rad! :D
9192
author=Marrend
They use different stats anyway!
Actually, that's another cool way to sort skills! It could bleed into the separating physical and magic skills, but some games that don't have magic could make good use of this kind of organization. For example, some skills may draw on Strength, but others could draw on a Dexterity stat.
For Bossgame I'm organizing them by order of how likely you are to use them, which mostly means from lowest to highest MP cost. For free skills, I'm usually putting the support skills after the attacks. That way, players don't have to dig around menus as much for skills they're gonna use all the time.
I'd only separate skills into different commands if they have something that makes them different mechanically. For example, in PSIV, Techniques were anything that were powered by your TP pool, and Skills were anything that had their own set of individual charges.
I'd only separate skills into different commands if they have something that makes them different mechanically. For example, in PSIV, Techniques were anything that were powered by your TP pool, and Skills were anything that had their own set of individual charges.
How you choose to sort your skills is entirely up to you. Ease of navigation and organization is always important for players in menu-driven RPGs, where list item counts can become large. That said, skills don't need any special considerations in particular. Break it down by skill type if you've got a lot of skills, alphabetize or go by skill strength. If you want to go above and beyond, you can allow players to sort by advanced options like the cost to use the resource or by function: Offense, defense, utility, assist, etc.
I don't really think much really needs to be said on this topic, so I can't really add anything more. ^^
I don't really think much really needs to be said on this topic, so I can't really add anything more. ^^
Hm, organisation-wise I like to do it by character (like I do with weapon/armour when there's no overlap). In the case of enemies, I also do that by 'character', starting with one area and monster and going forth. It does leave you with a LOT of skills but if it's in order from weak to strong monsters, it's usually easy to find what you want to tweak. Helps that I add tags like:
=======
Baikura
=======
Skill 1
Skill 2
Skill 3
Skill 4
=======
Gangle
======
....
amd so forth. And yes, I always leave a few spaces between because my God, it helps if you want to add skills to a monster later down the track.
=======
Baikura
=======
Skill 1
Skill 2
Skill 3
Skill 4
=======
Gangle
======
....
amd so forth. And yes, I always leave a few spaces between because my God, it helps if you want to add skills to a monster later down the track.
Red_Nova
Sir Redd of Novus: He who made Prayer of the Faithless that one time, and that was pretty dang rad! :D
9192
Pretty sure this topic was less, "What's the absolute best way to do this?" and more, "How do YOU like to do it?"
By the way, is it even possible to reorder skills? I thought they sorted by their identity in the database?
By the way, is it even possible to reorder skills? I thought they sorted by their identity in the database?
They are by default, but you can change how they work via script. Here's one that re-orders them based on learn order, instead of Skill DB order.
Actually, all of the skills in Bossgame are from equippable items, so I need to find a way to have the skill list match the equipment order, so players can arrange them how they like...
Actually, all of the skills in Bossgame are from equippable items, so I need to find a way to have the skill list match the equipment order, so players can arrange them how they like...
Red_Nova
Sir Redd of Novus: He who made Prayer of the Faithless that one time, and that was pretty dang rad! :D
9192
Oh man that is so useful! Thanks for point this out, Slash!
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
5958
Of course it's possible to reorder skills. It's possible to download and run a copy of Doom in the middle of your game. Anything is possible.
Letting the player reorder skills might be helpful in some games. But usually, like in FF4, I see it as an excuse for the designer to not have to order them intelligently.
What order is intelligent, and which skills go into different categories or even get their own unique command, is gonna be different for each game. Maybe you group them by purpose, maybe you group them by what resource they use, maybe you group some of them by some sort of plot criteria. Any skill that is categorically different from everything else you can do, like Defend or an MP-recovery skill, is probably a good candidate for getting its own unique command. But if the player only uses it once every fifty battles, then that stops being as true.
Defend is an interesting case study. In a typical Final Fantasy game, the player might use Defend in two battles in the entire game, so there's no real particular reason for it to be a special command instead of just a normal skill. However, in FF1 through FF4, it makes sense for it to be a special command, simply because every non-magical skill gets its own special command. This is because the idea of physical skillsets literally hadn't been invented yet. That reasoning is now super ultra obsolete, but the dumb practice of giving Defend its own command has somehow persisted through tradition.
Letting the player reorder skills might be helpful in some games. But usually, like in FF4, I see it as an excuse for the designer to not have to order them intelligently.
What order is intelligent, and which skills go into different categories or even get their own unique command, is gonna be different for each game. Maybe you group them by purpose, maybe you group them by what resource they use, maybe you group some of them by some sort of plot criteria. Any skill that is categorically different from everything else you can do, like Defend or an MP-recovery skill, is probably a good candidate for getting its own unique command. But if the player only uses it once every fifty battles, then that stops being as true.
Defend is an interesting case study. In a typical Final Fantasy game, the player might use Defend in two battles in the entire game, so there's no real particular reason for it to be a special command instead of just a normal skill. However, in FF1 through FF4, it makes sense for it to be a special command, simply because every non-magical skill gets its own special command. This is because the idea of physical skillsets literally hadn't been invented yet. That reasoning is now super ultra obsolete, but the dumb practice of giving Defend its own command has somehow persisted through tradition.
A lot of great stuff in the thread so far ^_^
Yeah, I have a big problem not organizing things so well in my games, as LockeZ pointed out to me like a year ago, so this type of sorting is super-valuable. I'm trying to get into good habits like these, because hunting skills (or anything else) in a disorganized database is a huge pain! XD
I guess what I'm wondering now is, if you have, say, Skill and Magic commands, and some characters only get one or two skills in one category, would it be better to just have a Skill command and put magic there, too? Or does that make Magic seem less special?
author=Liberty
Hm, organisation-wise I like to do it by character (like I do with weapon/armour when there's no overlap). In the case of enemies, I also do that by 'character', starting with one area and monster and going forth. It does leave you with a LOT of skills but if it's in order from weak to strong monsters, it's usually easy to find what you want to tweak. Helps that I add tags like:
=======
Baikura
=======
Skill 1
Skill 2
Skill 3
Skill 4
=======
Gangle
======
....
amd so forth. And yes, I always leave a few spaces between because my God, it helps if you want to add skills to a monster later down the track.
Yeah, I have a big problem not organizing things so well in my games, as LockeZ pointed out to me like a year ago, so this type of sorting is super-valuable. I'm trying to get into good habits like these, because hunting skills (or anything else) in a disorganized database is a huge pain! XD
author=LockeZ
Of course it's possible to reorder skills. It's possible to download and run a copy of Doom in the middle of your game. Anything is possible.
Letting the player reorder skills might be helpful in some games. But usually, like in FF4, I see it as an excuse for the designer to not have to order them intelligently.
What order is intelligent, and which skills go into different categories or even get their own unique command, is gonna be different for each game. Maybe you group them by purpose, maybe you group them by what resource they use, maybe you group some of them by some sort of plot criteria. Any skill that is categorically different from everything else you can do, like Defend or an MP-recovery skill, is probably a good candidate for getting its own unique command. But if the player only uses it once every fifty battles, then that stops being as true.
Defend is an interesting case study. In a typical Final Fantasy game, the player might use Defend in two battles in the entire game, so there's no real particular reason for it to be a special command instead of just a normal skill. However, in FF1 through FF4, it makes sense for it to be a special command, simply because every non-magical skill gets its own special command. This is because the idea of physical skillsets literally hadn't been invented yet. That reasoning is now super ultra obsolete, but the dumb practice of giving Defend its own command has somehow persisted through tradition.
I guess what I'm wondering now is, if you have, say, Skill and Magic commands, and some characters only get one or two skills in one category, would it be better to just have a Skill command and put magic there, too? Or does that make Magic seem less special?
Crystalgate
694
I tend to go with either resource usage or physical vs magic. Granted, if they do use different resources, physical skills usually use different resources than magic anyway.
That said, I think the point with making multiple lists is user friendliness. How many lists you need depends on how many skills a character will have simultaneously. In one of my projects, every character would eventually be able to learn over a hundred of skills, but only eight could be equipped at a time, so only one skill category was needed. Likewise, if a character has a big enough pool of skills, you may need more than two skill lists. I would also suggest ordering the list themselves so that the most used is positioned highest.
As far as listing individual skills goes, I think what often makes the most sense is to list last learned skill highest. Assuming your game uses a Fire/Fira/Firaga type of model, once the player learns Fira, Fire will barely ever be used again, ditto for Firaga vs Fira. In this case it makes the most sense to have Firaga on top and Fire on bottom. If you don't use a model where skills become outdated, then I think sorting them thematically is the best idea. The player has an easiest time finding them then.
That said, I think the point with making multiple lists is user friendliness. How many lists you need depends on how many skills a character will have simultaneously. In one of my projects, every character would eventually be able to learn over a hundred of skills, but only eight could be equipped at a time, so only one skill category was needed. Likewise, if a character has a big enough pool of skills, you may need more than two skill lists. I would also suggest ordering the list themselves so that the most used is positioned highest.
As far as listing individual skills goes, I think what often makes the most sense is to list last learned skill highest. Assuming your game uses a Fire/Fira/Firaga type of model, once the player learns Fira, Fire will barely ever be used again, ditto for Firaga vs Fira. In this case it makes the most sense to have Firaga on top and Fire on bottom. If you don't use a model where skills become outdated, then I think sorting them thematically is the best idea. The player has an easiest time finding them then.
Milennin
2060
In my game everything is under the Skill command, but characters' support skills are on the left side, while offensive skills are on the right side.
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