Full Games List
Featured Games
New Games
Reviews
Media
Images
Blogs
Game Updates
Images Feedback Summary
Game Design Highlights
Tutorials
Articles
Scripts
Utilities / Plugins
Resources
Engines
Engine Bulletins
What is Makerscore?
Past Events
Achievements
Misaos
Forums
Post History
Chat
New to RMN?
Full Store List
RMN Music Pack (free)
ALTERNATE METHODS OF GAINING SKILLS RATHER THAN LEVEL-UP
Posts
Pages:
1
unity
View playlists
CloseHello everyone! I constantly find myself brainstorming about games, and I realized that in most of my games I've been sticking to giving the characters skills as they level up. While this is fine and dandy, I'd really like to branch out, and try out new ways of doing things. I was curious if any of you had experiences with alternate methods of having characters learn skills and how well they work.
I've been thinking about a point system, where the characters spend points to learn new abilities. I wonder if it could work in a sort of tech-tree kind of fashion: ala you need to buy certain combinations of skills to unlock powerful new ones. Or even two or three "paths" that you can spend points on, with really nice skills at the top of the path.
The "use an item on a character" or just "find the skill in the environment" is another method, but I must admit that I worry about the player missing skills and then being at a big disadvantage in battle. If I went this route with a game, I suppose I could have the option to buy skills later on if you missed out on them.
Then there are games that are really cool and allow each character to learn skills in a different manner (like LockeZ's shark game :D ), though such a complex setup feels like it's a bit beyond my skill levels at the moment.
So, how do you handle learning skills? ^_^
I've been thinking about a point system, where the characters spend points to learn new abilities. I wonder if it could work in a sort of tech-tree kind of fashion: ala you need to buy certain combinations of skills to unlock powerful new ones. Or even two or three "paths" that you can spend points on, with really nice skills at the top of the path.
The "use an item on a character" or just "find the skill in the environment" is another method, but I must admit that I worry about the player missing skills and then being at a big disadvantage in battle. If I went this route with a game, I suppose I could have the option to buy skills later on if you missed out on them.
Then there are games that are really cool and allow each character to learn skills in a different manner (like LockeZ's shark game :D ), though such a complex setup feels like it's a bit beyond my skill levels at the moment.
So, how do you handle learning skills? ^_^
Red_Nova
Sir Redd of Novus: He who made Prayer of the Faithless that one time, and that was pretty dang rad! :D
9192
A point system? You mean something like this?
Anyway, I like tying skills to equipment. Some weapons/armor enable characters to use skills. It's a quick way to enable players to customize their characters to their liking. Alternatively, you can tweak the equipment system and have special items that only skills. For example, have an item that grants a fireball spell that you can equip on any party member.
You could also pull a Megaman by having characters gain some abilities from enemies you defeat. I think you could make something interesting by having rare monsters with rare abilities that you need to hunt down to acquire.
Anyway, I like tying skills to equipment. Some weapons/armor enable characters to use skills. It's a quick way to enable players to customize their characters to their liking. Alternatively, you can tweak the equipment system and have special items that only skills. For example, have an item that grants a fireball spell that you can equip on any party member.
You could also pull a Megaman by having characters gain some abilities from enemies you defeat. I think you could make something interesting by having rare monsters with rare abilities that you need to hunt down to acquire.
I'm using a combination of what Nova suggested ( equipment grants temporary skills ) and a JP-system as seen in FFT ( where characters unlock skills and passive abilities through a new currency called 'JP' from defeating foes ). It's a bit hard to balance atm. Even though I can impose restrictions such as having to learn a base skill first or just lock the skill for story-reasons, I'm also trying to negate the 'grind-factor' that comes with a system like this.
So I like giving the players other options as well in the form of skill orbs, crafting new items etc. Even doing those oft-ignored sidequests could reward your character in some way or the other by having an NPC teach them a new skill ( ala Duncan teaching Sabin Phantom Rush XD ).
So I like giving the players other options as well in the form of skill orbs, crafting new items etc. Even doing those oft-ignored sidequests could reward your character in some way or the other by having an NPC teach them a new skill ( ala Duncan teaching Sabin Phantom Rush XD ).
As long as it makes sense in the context of the game world and is properly explained to the player, I don't really see the problem with any odd systems. Shadow Hearts: Covenant probably did unique character-based skill-finding the best out of games that I've played. From what I remember...
>Everybody equipped spells from a general pool, but then also had their unique personal abilities.
>Karen only had four skills, I don't remember how she got them. Eh.
>Yuri and his cousin beat up demons (some as awesome boss battles) to unlock new transformations
>Gepetto unlocked dresses for his doll Cordelia that let her cast new black magic spells. You bartered the dresses from the traveling merchants by trading them cards with naughty pictures of guys on them
>Bianca had to find other wolves (my favorite was the space wolf that only talked in emoticons) and duel them one-on-one to unlock new wolf skills
>Joachim, the vampire butterfly wrestler, went through two sine waves over time where he had different stances -- being invisible, being golden, and/or being a bat -- each one having different weaknesses and strengths
>Tarot card girl... forgettable character but fun in battle. I don't remember her gimmicks outside of battle though
>Anastasia Romanov is a blue mage who takes pictures of enemies and then uses those photographs as attacks
I think that's all of the main cast? It's been a while.
Anyway, like I said, any methods work as long as they make sense in the world and can be easily explained. I'm sure everybody knows by now that I do love skills as customizable equipment, too (FF9/TA/TA2 suck though, I hate the method that ties skills to stat-raising equipment... keep them separate, I don't want Zidane to use this bad dagger for thirty battles so that I can then equip this mediocre dagger and long for this good one I just pulled out of a chest :< ).
>Everybody equipped spells from a general pool, but then also had their unique personal abilities.
>Karen only had four skills, I don't remember how she got them. Eh.
>Yuri and his cousin beat up demons (some as awesome boss battles) to unlock new transformations
>Gepetto unlocked dresses for his doll Cordelia that let her cast new black magic spells. You bartered the dresses from the traveling merchants by trading them cards with naughty pictures of guys on them
>Bianca had to find other wolves (my favorite was the space wolf that only talked in emoticons) and duel them one-on-one to unlock new wolf skills
>Joachim, the vampire butterfly wrestler, went through two sine waves over time where he had different stances -- being invisible, being golden, and/or being a bat -- each one having different weaknesses and strengths
>Tarot card girl... forgettable character but fun in battle. I don't remember her gimmicks outside of battle though
>Anastasia Romanov is a blue mage who takes pictures of enemies and then uses those photographs as attacks
I think that's all of the main cast? It's been a while.
Anyway, like I said, any methods work as long as they make sense in the world and can be easily explained. I'm sure everybody knows by now that I do love skills as customizable equipment, too (FF9/TA/TA2 suck though, I hate the method that ties skills to stat-raising equipment... keep them separate, I don't want Zidane to use this bad dagger for thirty battles so that I can then equip this mediocre dagger and long for this good one I just pulled out of a chest :< ).
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
5958
Craze how can you hate FF9's ability-learning system
Stop being a terrible person, the ability to choose a trade-off between short-term power and long-term power and then go back and change your mind any time with no permanent penalty was great and wonderful
It was pretty lame in the first FFTA though since every weapon was nearly equally strong and you gained all of them 10% of the way into the game, with the exception of a few hidden things that you could only get with strategy guides. That's not how you do that system.
Stop being a terrible person, the ability to choose a trade-off between short-term power and long-term power and then go back and change your mind any time with no permanent penalty was great and wonderful
It was pretty lame in the first FFTA though since every weapon was nearly equally strong and you gained all of them 10% of the way into the game, with the exception of a few hidden things that you could only get with strategy guides. That's not how you do that system.
Alichains
637
If I remember correctly, Karen got her skills from people giving her excerpts from Wagners Opera.
My experimentation has been limited to skill evolution (Okiku, Star Apprentice, Oracle of Askigaga). However, I could totally see me attaching skills to equipment if it makes sense in context to the game.
Such as mech-tactical-gam-that-keeps-getting-shelved.
Such as mech-tactical-gam-that-keeps-getting-shelved.
I threw my hat into the skills from equipment ring a while back. The actions each character could take was entirely dictated by their current equipment (barring generic actions, like Item). Weapons would give nothing but a pile of skills and each character could equip three weapons at a time to build a skill set. Other equipment like helmets and belts were for stat boosts, passive abilities, and in rare cases would give another ability. Characters could also change their equipment in battle at the cost of a turn too in case their current skill set proved insufficient for the current fight. The game itself never went anywhere so I can't give any meaningful feedback on how it turned out though.
LockeZ
Craze how can you hate FF9's ability-learning system
Stop being a terrible person, the ability to choose a trade-off between short-term power and long-term power and then go back and change your mind any time with no permanent penalty was great and wonderful
It was pretty lame in the first FFTA though since every weapon was nearly equally strong and you gained all of them 10% of the way into the game, with the exception of a few hidden things that you could only get with strategy guides. That's not how you do that system.
because it fucking feels bad and promotes grinding
agree with craze
Tying abilities to skills wasn't THE WORST, it doesn't kill the game, but it seems pretty shitty and counter intuitive. It just seems to promote hoarding and unnecessary grinding.
Tying abilities to skills wasn't THE WORST, it doesn't kill the game, but it seems pretty shitty and counter intuitive. It just seems to promote hoarding and unnecessary grinding.
eplipswich
2728
I know the game I'm currently translating, Nocturne: Rebirth, has players gain skills in a unique way. Players gain exp in battle as in any other RPG, but this exp doesn't immediately apply to and level up characters like any other RPG. Instead, this exp is accumulated and can be spent to gain skills and level them up. And only by doing this can a player level up a character and expand the character's skill tree.
In another game, Hat World (https://youtu.be/g97FL0KbJLA?t=2m27s), ball-shaped crystals are used to gain and level up skills. Crystals can be collected in dungeons.
In another game, Hat World (https://youtu.be/g97FL0KbJLA?t=2m27s), ball-shaped crystals are used to gain and level up skills. Crystals can be collected in dungeons.
I'm really liking all of this "equip stuff, get skills." :D What if you had artifacts that anyone could equip, but they grant different skills based on which character is equipping them?
zeello
40
I wish to make it so my protagonist learns his first spell at a fixed point in the story, right before the first boss. Ideally his MP bar would be hidden until that point. (If I can find a way of doing that) (but maybe it's not that important, since its better to have MP in advance instead of having it suddenly show up out of nowhere)
For the rest of the game, spells would be learned from leveling. But maybe I should introduce them at fixed points. I dunno. We'll see.
Or maybe pay to learn skills. But that seems iffy because your be forced to choose between spells and buying something else. This is why shops suck.
For the rest of the game, spells would be learned from leveling. But maybe I should introduce them at fixed points. I dunno. We'll see.
Or maybe pay to learn skills. But that seems iffy because your be forced to choose between spells and buying something else. This is why shops suck.
Red_Nova
Sir Redd of Novus: He who made Prayer of the Faithless that one time, and that was pretty dang rad! :D
9192
author=unity
I'm really liking all of this "equip stuff, get skills." :D What if you had artifacts that anyone could equip, but they grant different skills based on which character is equipping them?
That sounds like an interesting idea. Riviera: the Promised Land did something similar to that. Players could only choose 4 items to bring into battle, but every character could do something different with each item, and often had a special ability unique to each individual item.
I'm not sure if a script like that exists in RM, and I'm pretty sure it would be difficult to implement, but it's an idea.
author=unity
I'm really liking all of this "equip stuff, get skills." :D What if you had artifacts that anyone could equip, but they grant different skills based on which character is equipping them?
Ahhh yea! I like this! Peri, accha and I were gonna do that for the halloween game. When you defeated a boss or challenge room, you'd get a stone that would have a theme to it, like "Wind" or "Reckless". Your party consisted of a Warrior, a Mage, and a Cleric, and they learned different skills from each stone. The Wind Stone would teach the Warrior a barrier spell, the Mage a free-action Wind Blast, and the Cleric a haste spell.
It was a fun idea and I think it can create some cool choices! But it also makes for a lot of spells to balance.
LightningLord2
230
author=slashauthor=unityAhhh yea! I like this! Peri, accha and I were gonna do that for the halloween game. When you defeated a boss or challenge room, you'd get a stone that would have a theme to it, like "Wind" or "Reckless". Your party consisted of a Warrior, a Mage, and a Cleric, and they learned different skills from each stone. The Wind Stone would teach the Warrior a barrier spell, the Mage a free-action Wind Blast, and the Cleric a haste spell.
I'm really liking all of this "equip stuff, get skills." :D What if you had artifacts that anyone could equip, but they grant different skills based on which character is equipping them?
It was a fun idea and I think it can create some cool choices! But it also makes for a lot of spells to balance.
I once had a similar idea with same thing, different skills - but in my case, different actors learned different skills depending on the class they level up in (which is mainly what elemental trait those skills have as each actor has a different affinity)
EDIT: My idea would be having a certain number of slots for a number of skills where you put in effect stones to craft spells - Lightning-Lightning-Lightning is a Tier 3 Lightning spell, Lightning-Heal would be a lightning element HP drain, Lightning-Spread-Poison-Weakness would be a hit-all Tier 1 Lightning spell that poisons all enemies and lowers their attack...
author=Red_Novaauthor=unityThat sounds like an interesting idea. Riviera: the Promised Land did something similar to that. Players could only choose 4 items to bring into battle, but every character could do something different with each item, and often had a special ability unique to each individual item.
I'm really liking all of this "equip stuff, get skills." :D What if you had artifacts that anyone could equip, but they grant different skills based on which character is equipping them?
I'm not sure if a script like that exists in RM, and I'm pretty sure it would be difficult to implement, but it's an idea.
If I wanted to do this, I'd be the kind of crazy that would make the equipment-checks and skill-giving (skill-removing too, probably) in scripts, but make the scripts be called by a Common Event.
Pages:
1
