FF7 REMAKE. IT'S A THING.

Yeah, that's fine, but that's not what I'm talking about. I think we're apples and oranging here.

author=kentona
I derive the most satisfaction from the challenge of building my character's skills/equipment/party/class to face the game's obstacles (most often battles). The battles are a test of my ability to plan, anticipate, and craft a well-rounded and powerful avatar.

I agree, so what I'm saying is that I don't want my ability to plan, anticipate, and craft a well rounded and powerful avatar to make the game easy. I want my ability to do those things to be met with an appropriate challenge where I can test those tools and use them to conquer that challenge, not steamroll it, which is what I was contesting. There are plenty of pure (not action) RPGs that meet even the best planning and party with real challenge that feels great.

You responded that that mindset is most applicable to action games, and my retort is that instead it should be applicable to all games.

author=ken
I hate it when it is undone simply because I can't press buttons fast enough. I don't like having my twitch skills tested unless I am specifically playing an action game.

Sure, but that's not what I'm talking about (although your ability to press buttons fast enough and correctly is also a skill, but isn't a requirement for a game to be a game or a challenging game).

You two need to play a Shin Megami Tensei game. Good planning and party setup is needed, but doesn't make combat overly easy/boring thanks to the battle mechanics. No action RPG or action game with RPG elements there.

EDIT: Oh right. Something on topic. Hm...

The screenshots are leaving me feeling pretty "meh", honestly.I'm not sure what it is about JRPGs recently, but this trend of shrinking UIs is starting to annoy me. Maybe I'm just getting old, but all that information packed into each character's status window looks really hard to read from a distance. I can imagine having difficulty reacting to perilous situations when I'm trying to read my character's basic stats. It was obnoxious in FF15 and it looks even worse here with even more info crammed into the same space.

I'll have to see it in action to tell for sure.

author=Red_Nova
You two need to play a Shin Megami Tensei game. Good planning and party setup is needed, but doesn't make combat overly easy/boring thanks to the battle mechanics. No action RPG or action game with RPG elements there.

Already a big fan of the series, and a perfect example of what I mean.

A lesson in powercreep when powercreep is a van and you drive it off a cliff after replacing a dead battery

author=Red_Nova
I'm not sure what it is about JRPGs recently, but this trend of shrinking UIs is starting to annoy me. Maybe I'm just getting old, but all that information packed into each character's status window looks really hard to read from a distance. I can imagine having difficulty reacting to perilous situations when I'm trying to read my character's basic stats. It was obnoxious in FF15 and it looks even worse here with even more info crammed into the same space.

I'll have to see it in action to tell for sure.

My TV screen is four times the size it was in 1997, and I suspect yours is too, so to be honest I think it's actually the same amount of information in the same amount of space. It only looks smaller on a computer monitor.

Being semi-transparent definitely makes it feel smaller though, even though it isn't. It's the same size but it takes up less of the screen. I'm ok with that. Especially in an FF game where the visuals are guaranteed to be top-notch.

In a vaccum, looking at a screenshot, the semi-transparent interface also makes it take a split-second longer to read because it's a little harder to "find" the text on the interface, because it's surrounded with game world stuff instead of with a solid blue rectangle. But in practice it's in the same place for the entire game, and it's the only thing on the screen that doesn't move, so your brain gets used to it very, very quickly.

Guard Scorpion 1997
Guard Scorpion 2017

author=Feldschlacht IV

author=kentona
I derive the most satisfaction from the challenge of building my character's skills/equipment/party/class to face the game's obstacles (most often battles). The battles are a test of my ability to plan, anticipate, and craft a well-rounded and powerful avatar.

I agree, so what I'm saying is that I don't want my ability to plan, anticipate, and craft a well rounded and powerful avatar to make the game easy. I want my ability to do those things to be met with an appropriate challenge where I can test those tools and use them to conquer that challenge, not steamroll it, which is what I was contesting. There are plenty of pure (not action) RPGs that meet even the best planning and party with real challenge that feels great.

You responded that that mindset is most applicable to action games, and my retort is that instead it should be applicable to all games.

author=ken
I hate it when it is undone simply because I can't press buttons fast enough. I don't like having my twitch skills tested unless I am specifically playing an action game.

Sure, but that's not what I'm talking about (although your ability to press buttons fast enough and correctly is also a skill, but isn't a requirement for a game to be a game or a challenging game).

Agreed, for the most part.

(Hero's Realm suddenly makes more sense, hearing Kentona's ideology. XD)

Streamlining combat and infusing "action" elements into more classic jRPG mechanics isn't a new thing for the series, though. It's just been seeping into Final Fantasy very gradually - first with the ATB (which was a pretty significant shift), and then again in FF7-9, where they kicked it up a notch. Speed and quick-thinking became essential to the underlying strategy of the battle system.

In fact, I'd even say it's been shifting gears more toward a "Kingdom Hearts" type of system for almost a decade (with FF12/13 and even more with 15), although hopefully it's not quite as utterly mindless as something like KH.

For better or worse, it makes sense for Square to forego the classic FF7 system to fit with the aesthetic of the remake...although hopefully it keeps enough similarities that the "spirit" of the original endures.

author=kentona

author=Red_Nova
EDIT:

The three ticks next to the ATB bar worry me. The modernization of FF7's combat system is... even more waiting to store up actions? I guess it could work if stronger moves cost 2 or 3 ATB ticks, but adding more wait time isn't exactly the first thing that comes to mind when I think about improving a battle system.

Reminds me of Septerra Core. While there were other shortcomings in that game, the 3 tick ATB bar was actually interesting. iirc, it basically equated to 'quick attack - medium attack - heavy attack', which translated into a bit more depth in your selection of moves (ie, a quick attack to finish off an almost-dead opponent or smaller weaker opponents vs waiting a full atb cycle)

3-tick ATB bar is on my (long) list of mechanics to explore in a developing an RPG.

That's basically how FFXIII works. You have an ATB meter with varying numbers of subsections (which you can increase per character through plot, sidequests, equipment, etc) and abilities cost a number of ATB meter segments. It was the best implementation of ATB I've seen and lent itself well toward a more dynamic feeling of action while still being turn-based.

author=Liberty
...I wonder if they'll still allow rainbow windows and messing around with colours or not.

I can absolutely see them putting that in post release if they don't include it on release; that was a really cool and popular aspect of FFVII's UI that I don't think any other FF really had.

Thank God.

author=LockeZ

author=Red_Nova
I'm not sure what it is about JRPGs recently, but this trend of shrinking UIs is starting to annoy me. Maybe I'm just getting old, but all that information packed into each character's status window looks really hard to read from a distance. I can imagine having difficulty reacting to perilous situations when I'm trying to read my character's basic stats. It was obnoxious in FF15 and it looks even worse here with even more info crammed into the same space.

I'll have to see it in action to tell for sure.

My TV screen is four times the size it was in 1997, and I suspect yours is too, so to be honest I think it's actually the same amount of information in the same amount of space. It only looks smaller on a computer monitor.

Being semi-transparent definitely makes it feel smaller though, even though it isn't. It's the same size but it takes up less of the screen. I'm ok with that. Especially in an FF game where the visuals are guaranteed to be top-notch.

In a vaccum, looking at a screenshot, the semi-transparent interface also makes it take a split-second longer to read because it's a little harder to "find" the text on the interface, because it's surrounded with game world stuff instead of with a solid blue rectangle. But in practice it's in the same place for the entire game, and it's the only thing on the screen that doesn't move, so your brain gets used to it very, very quickly.

Guard Scorpion 1997
Guard Scorpion 2017

Actually, my first time with FF7 was a couple years ago when I got it on PSX. I played it on the same TV as the one I plan on playing the remake on. The information is much, much harder to read in the remake. The size of the meters and numbers are way smaller now than they were in the original, making it that much harder to read.

The original layout may not look as sleek as the remake, but it absolutely took up more space on the screen and was easier to read. In the original, I can look at one character's HP and read everyone else's instantly through peripheral vision, which is useful after being hit with a strong party-wide attack. In the remake, there's so much space and different elements between HP bars that it will take longer to read. And that's just with two party members. With three? Oof...

The transparency is an issue, yes, but not nearly as bad as the organization and size of the information you're supposed to be reading. If you take the original party status window, layer it on top of the remake's, and resize it to fit the same dimensions as the new one, it's still a lot easier to read:



Same dimensions, but one is a lot more readable even shrunk as it is.

Of course, this is all pointless niggling if the game is easy enough that finding this info on a moment's notice is not required. But if the battle system is as action-y as Kitase and Nomura say so, then I'm pretty sure this will be a problem. Besides, bad UI is bad UI no matter how unnecessary it is to read it.