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9/10, BUT STILL TERRIBLE? ABOUT GAME-KILLING FEATURES
Posts
LightningLord2
230
LightningLord2
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CloseSo you got a game - a lot of things you saw made you interested, when you actually play, you can mostly even agree on the game's strong points - but, at one point (early or late), you encounter something that is so bad that you now hate the entire game, even if all the other features are good. Any experiences you had like this?
I can cite an example myself:
The World Ends With You
What I like about it
It was a very unique setting to start an rpg with, it has an interesting (though not that amazing) plot and some very cool mechanics for item drops.
What ruined it for me
The controls. Though I managed to find games that are even worse, I just couldn't play a game like that. It was really awkward to handle moving and attacking (I generally slide the stylus for tap controls for precision), they even added rythmic button presses to that! I turned the game away forever after that happened.
I can cite an example myself:
The World Ends With You
What I like about it
It was a very unique setting to start an rpg with, it has an interesting (though not that amazing) plot and some very cool mechanics for item drops.
What ruined it for me
The controls. Though I managed to find games that are even worse, I just couldn't play a game like that. It was really awkward to handle moving and attacking (I generally slide the stylus for tap controls for precision), they even added rythmic button presses to that! I turned the game away forever after that happened.
I can see it work, but I know from what I have seen I will not like it. I've had the setting before and the music alone is enough to make me want to walk away. Cool style overall, but some stuff just .. ugh. Drop the singer please.
It's a game I may like. But it is very unlikely.
It happens a lot, but I know what to expect from myself so I can't really any specific cases that stuck with me or surprised me.
It's a game I may like. But it is very unlikely.
It happens a lot, but I know what to expect from myself so I can't really any specific cases that stuck with me or surprised me.
It's true that the battle system is hard to handle, and despite finishing the game I still can't fully dominate that mechanic, but that didn't stopped me from playing (and enjoying) the game.
I guess we both have different levels of patience for these kind of things...
EDIT: Also, no. I don't recall this ever hapenning to me. At least, not that I remember...
I guess we both have different levels of patience for these kind of things...
EDIT: Also, no. I don't recall this ever hapenning to me. At least, not that I remember...
LightningLord2
230
TWEWY is not exactly the worst game ever to me - the controls were weak enough to not make me enjoy it anymore, though.
In general, there's several other games I turned away from because I hated the controls so much - The Void (PC), WET (Xbox 360), Lost Magic (DS) and Wonderful 101 (Wii U - that game also had totally unrecognizable game objects)
Other deal breakers for me were Fable III's villian, Lords of Xulima's combat system, Final Fantasy's lack of difficulty and also some RPG Maker games because there's no indication where to go next.
In general, there's several other games I turned away from because I hated the controls so much - The Void (PC), WET (Xbox 360), Lost Magic (DS) and Wonderful 101 (Wii U - that game also had totally unrecognizable game objects)
Other deal breakers for me were Fable III's villian, Lords of Xulima's combat system, Final Fantasy's lack of difficulty and also some RPG Maker games because there's no indication where to go next.
I have a Darksiders story that might count for this. For a bit of background, I played Darksiders 2 first, and thought it was pretty awesome. It was reasonable to assume that the first game would be similar, if not as polished an experience.
As it happened, I got as far as obtaining the portal gun (or whatever it was called in that game), and in a dungeon with increasingly annoying puzzles (that probably needed to use said portal gun). I can't recall the exact puzzle-situation I got stuck on, but, I just rage-quit that game. So. Hard.
Witch is kinda sad, because, I really wanted to see War's story, but, yeah, those puzzles were just too annoying.
As it happened, I got as far as obtaining the portal gun (or whatever it was called in that game), and in a dungeon with increasingly annoying puzzles (that probably needed to use said portal gun). I can't recall the exact puzzle-situation I got stuck on, but, I just rage-quit that game. So. Hard.
Witch is kinda sad, because, I really wanted to see War's story, but, yeah, those puzzles were just too annoying.
Red_Nova
Sir Redd of Novus: He who made Prayer of the Faithless that one time, and that was pretty dang rad! :D
9192
Resident Evil 6. I know that game got a bad rep, but I actually enjoyed it a lot, even the stuff that everyone hated (Chris' and Jake's story. I thought they were okay). Leon's story being my favorite by far. I've already made my peace with the series' lack of survival horror, so perhaps that's why I enjoy the games more than others might.
What turned me off from it is the fact that you can't create your own loadout. My favorite thing to do in RE games is to run through them with a premade loadout of weapons/equipment. For example, I do a no merchant run a lot in RE4, and RE5 I give Chris and Sheva a primary weapon and handgun. In RE6, you are given every weapon in the game each chapter, and you can't drop them. Hell, I purposely bypassed some weapons to I wouldn't have to pick them up, but the game automatically gives them to me at the end of the chapters.
So now I'm forced to collect ammo for weapon I know I'm never going to use (Piers comes with a friggin sniper rifle! Why do I have to pick up a second one?!). The part that pisses me off the most is that I'm sure the ability to drop weapons would have been added in, if Capcom hadn't forced to game to release a month early.
Screw you, Capcom.
What turned me off from it is the fact that you can't create your own loadout. My favorite thing to do in RE games is to run through them with a premade loadout of weapons/equipment. For example, I do a no merchant run a lot in RE4, and RE5 I give Chris and Sheva a primary weapon and handgun. In RE6, you are given every weapon in the game each chapter, and you can't drop them. Hell, I purposely bypassed some weapons to I wouldn't have to pick them up, but the game automatically gives them to me at the end of the chapters.
So now I'm forced to collect ammo for weapon I know I'm never going to use (Piers comes with a friggin sniper rifle! Why do I have to pick up a second one?!). The part that pisses me off the most is that I'm sure the ability to drop weapons would have been added in, if Capcom hadn't forced to game to release a month early.
Screw you, Capcom.
Shinan
4314
Bioshock. Though for a really silly reason.
I mean the game was okay. Nothing spectacular but it was nice to look at and stuff. But then it crashed. And hadn't autosaved. So I said "fuck it". Maybe I was just so used to autosaves and checkpoints (the game has its own checkpoint system with those revive chambers so I just assumed it autosaved each time) but I hadn't saved. In ages.
I mean the game was okay. Nothing spectacular but it was nice to look at and stuff. But then it crashed. And hadn't autosaved. So I said "fuck it". Maybe I was just so used to autosaves and checkpoints (the game has its own checkpoint system with those revive chambers so I just assumed it autosaved each time) but I hadn't saved. In ages.
Final Fantasy XII: Revenant Wings.
There were several red flags that should have stopped me from even buying the game:
The back of the box said nothing other than a brief continuation of FFXII's story line, and a few screenshots. Having played other Final Fantasy and Square Enix games, I figured I'd get it.
The game itself is a Real-Time Strategy game, obviously meant to be inspired by or based on FFXII's real-time field battle system. Ordinarily, I would have been able to accept a new concept on an old series. The problem that drove me away? You didn't actually play as anybody. You just summoned monsters, and commanded them around the map. Main characters were present and controllable, but they served mainly as rally points and occasionally unleashed special abilities. There was no magic, no items, no character development. I gave up after about 12 hours near what I believe was the end of the game.
Terrible, terrible game. To this day, I still won't play any sequel that jumps between systems of different companies.
There were several red flags that should have stopped me from even buying the game:
- It was a Nintendo DS sequel to a PS2 game. Not only did they switch systems, but they switched companies.
- It was $39.99, much more than anybody should ever have paid for a DS game.
- It used SNES-era graphics that were present in a bonus sub-menu of FFXII.
The back of the box said nothing other than a brief continuation of FFXII's story line, and a few screenshots. Having played other Final Fantasy and Square Enix games, I figured I'd get it.
The game itself is a Real-Time Strategy game, obviously meant to be inspired by or based on FFXII's real-time field battle system. Ordinarily, I would have been able to accept a new concept on an old series. The problem that drove me away? You didn't actually play as anybody. You just summoned monsters, and commanded them around the map. Main characters were present and controllable, but they served mainly as rally points and occasionally unleashed special abilities. There was no magic, no items, no character development. I gave up after about 12 hours near what I believe was the end of the game.
Terrible, terrible game. To this day, I still won't play any sequel that jumps between systems of different companies.
suzy_cheesedreams
1480
Dragon Age Inquisition. This is the first game of its type I've ever really played. I just don't like contemporary western fantasy tropes. It definitely is pretty, and exploring the hinterlands level was fun, but I just don't care about any of the lore and so can't really engage with the world or characters. I'm trying to finish it quickly so I can get back to Lightning Returns. Because I somehow care more about the characters in that game despite it being so utterly stupid.
I guess FFXII, as well. I do think I enjoyed the gameplay overall (except for some lame battle features); there were lots of expansive levels and things to explore, but I thought the story was so boring, I hated the bland character design, and I don't really like the type of music present in that game. I appreciate the more obscure and mean-spirited mechanics, though.
I guess FFXII, as well. I do think I enjoyed the gameplay overall (except for some lame battle features); there were lots of expansive levels and things to explore, but I thought the story was so boring, I hated the bland character design, and I don't really like the type of music present in that game. I appreciate the more obscure and mean-spirited mechanics, though.
Grandia III is guilty of my number one pet peeve: You play this amazing game with beautiful artwork and amazing graphics, with an epic fantasy story. You go through 50 plus hours of gameplay, make it to the end boss, and how does it end? With the credits. No end sequence, no nothing. Game over, fuck you. Chrono Cross did the exact same thing. And I'm not talking about the final boss dying an you only get a bit of brief dialogue, no, not even that. The credits roll upon completion of the battle, and there's not even an after-credits sequence. No congrats, no aftermath, no going back home a hero, not even someone saying, "Wow, I can't believe we survived." To me, it's the equivalent of the developer telling you to fuck off. And for the rest of eternity, I will tell people to never ever play those games because they suck sweaty donkey balls. You get this amazing story and once you beat the game, the developer doesn't even tell you how it ends. It's a dickhead move.
@suzy_cheesedreams I am one of the losers that people talk about who absolutely loved Final Fantasy XII. It's not my favorite of the series, and it's far from perfect, and yes, Vaan can go kill himself: I consider Balthier the main character of the story. In my opinion, the story was overloaded. Too many ideas and too convoluted of a narrative. Get around the extra baggage and there's actually a very good story. Unfortunately, the story did not have good script and continuity editors.
@suzy_cheesedreams I am one of the losers that people talk about who absolutely loved Final Fantasy XII. It's not my favorite of the series, and it's far from perfect, and yes, Vaan can go kill himself: I consider Balthier the main character of the story. In my opinion, the story was overloaded. Too many ideas and too convoluted of a narrative. Get around the extra baggage and there's actually a very good story. Unfortunately, the story did not have good script and continuity editors.
LightningLord2
230
author=Sated
I actually really liked both Final Fantasy XII and Final Fantasy XII: Revenant Wings. I thought that the gameplay in both was pretty entertaining, more than enough to make up for the slightly dull storylines. The World Ends With You is easily the best handheld game I've ever played; I didn't have any problems with the controls.
I don't think there is a factor than can take a game from 9/10 to "terrible" for me. I weight gameplay pretty heavily compared to the other parts of a game, so for a game to be 9/10 it'd have to have really good gameplay. To wreck that would require a concerted effort from every other part of the game, not just a couple of features that bugged me a little...
The 9/10 means that you think 90% of the game is great but the remaining 10% is so bad that the other 90% can't make up for it. If you need an example, try thinking of a game where you really enjoy the gameplay if it weren't for a massive flaw in it.
As I mentioned above, I disliked the controls in Wonderful 101 even more - the game demands you to both accurately draw shapes (which the game will never acknowledge beyond the straight line) and use most of your gamepad's buttons. On top of that, you have a highly zoomed out camera and highly generic graphics for entities, which makes it impossible to recognize what is what.
suzy_cheesedreams
1480
@pianotm I don't consider people who like FFXII to be losers! I think I may be the real loser because I don't dislike Vaan XD. I think maybe Balthier was the most tolerable character.
zeello
40
This happens to me all the time. It's so debilitating that I practically consider it a waste of money to buy games and sometimes wonder why I bother playing games at all.
Rather than listing every game that does this and what the game did wrong, since the list would go on for like 100 pages, it probably would be better if I just list a few of the more common offenses:
- random encounters
- game can't be beaten without looking up a guide
- poor button mapping, especially when clawing is required as a result
- touch controls (except when the game is controlled with touch exclusively and in which touch actually makes sense for the game) at best tolerable on select vita games, not tolerable on WiiU which has resistive touch, massive bulky controller, and a screen that is farther away
- you're playing on vita, 3ds, or wiu and have to use motion controls
- poorly thought out mechanics, maidwork, and/or accounting
- game completely and royally screws you over for not saving or for saving at the wrong time/place
- can't see where you're going in side scrollers due to 2d perspective, rendering them unplayable (see every 2d sonic game ever, except the classics, but even the classics) (also occurs in NES Remix levels were Mario automatically runs)
- fighting games where each player can only look at their own movelists while pausing meaning both players have to take turns pausing instead of being able to look at the same time. Also: having to pause to look up movelists. ("ready... FIGHT!" *pause*)
- Fighting games that don't have movelists in the game at all. (See also the second item on this list)
- cultural context: knowing I'm not entitled to any game that avoids these issues, people not understanding what's wrong with these issues when you point them out, and talented game makers repeating these issues time and time again.
Rather than listing every game that does this and what the game did wrong, since the list would go on for like 100 pages, it probably would be better if I just list a few of the more common offenses:
- random encounters
- game can't be beaten without looking up a guide
- poor button mapping, especially when clawing is required as a result
- touch controls (except when the game is controlled with touch exclusively and in which touch actually makes sense for the game) at best tolerable on select vita games, not tolerable on WiiU which has resistive touch, massive bulky controller, and a screen that is farther away
- you're playing on vita, 3ds, or wiu and have to use motion controls
- poorly thought out mechanics, maidwork, and/or accounting
- game completely and royally screws you over for not saving or for saving at the wrong time/place
- can't see where you're going in side scrollers due to 2d perspective, rendering them unplayable (see every 2d sonic game ever, except the classics, but even the classics) (also occurs in NES Remix levels were Mario automatically runs)
- fighting games where each player can only look at their own movelists while pausing meaning both players have to take turns pausing instead of being able to look at the same time. Also: having to pause to look up movelists. ("ready... FIGHT!" *pause*)
- Fighting games that don't have movelists in the game at all. (See also the second item on this list)
- cultural context: knowing I'm not entitled to any game that avoids these issues, people not understanding what's wrong with these issues when you point them out, and talented game makers repeating these issues time and time again.
author=pianotm
Grandia III is guilty of my number one pet peeve: You play this amazing game with beautiful artwork and amazing graphics, with an epic fantasy story. You go through 50 plus hours of gameplay, make it to the end boss, and how does it end? With the credits. No end sequence, no nothing. Game over, fuck you. Chrono Cross did the exact same thing. And I'm not talking about the final boss dying an you only get a bit of brief dialogue, no, not even that. The credits roll upon completion of the battle, and there's not even an after-credits sequence. No congrats, no aftermath, no going back home a hero, not even someone saying, "Wow, I can't believe we survived." To me, it's the equivalent of the developer telling you to fuck off. And for the rest of eternity, I will tell people to never ever play those games because they suck sweaty donkey balls. You get this amazing story and once you beat the game, the developer doesn't even tell you how it ends. It's a dickhead move.
@suzy_cheesedreams I am one of the losers that people talk about who absolutely loved Final Fantasy XII. It's not my favorite of the series, and it's far from perfect, and yes, Vaan can go kill himself: I consider Balthier the main character of the story. In my opinion, the story was overloaded. Too many ideas and too convoluted of a narrative. Get around the extra baggage and there's actually a very good story. Unfortunately, the story did not have good script and continuity editors.
I'm almost certain the ending is after the credits.
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
5958
What? Man Chrono Cross's ending was like an hour long.
Anyway, I think that if what you have in your game is good enough, you can leave out anything. AAA games like to make sure they include every single aspect of gameplay and game design so as to not alienate any of the picky people like those in this thread, but the end result to me often just feels unfocused.
Cut out the ending, but focus more on your game's best characteristics? Yes please.
Don't have likable characters, but just let other parts of the story be good instead? Yes please.
Bad controls, but something amazing happening in the gameplay once you learn them? Yes please.
In most cases, I think I'd enjoy a game more that does great at one thing and terrible at another than mediocre at both. In all cases, I think doing mediocre at both results in the objectively worse game. Sometimes the thing that's left out is something I do care a lot about, but to some other player out there, it doesn't matter that much. It's the difference between selling an unmemorable game to a decent number of people and really connecting with a few people. It's the difference between shovelware and a cult classic.
Anyway, I think that if what you have in your game is good enough, you can leave out anything. AAA games like to make sure they include every single aspect of gameplay and game design so as to not alienate any of the picky people like those in this thread, but the end result to me often just feels unfocused.
Cut out the ending, but focus more on your game's best characteristics? Yes please.
Don't have likable characters, but just let other parts of the story be good instead? Yes please.
Bad controls, but something amazing happening in the gameplay once you learn them? Yes please.
In most cases, I think I'd enjoy a game more that does great at one thing and terrible at another than mediocre at both. In all cases, I think doing mediocre at both results in the objectively worse game. Sometimes the thing that's left out is something I do care a lot about, but to some other player out there, it doesn't matter that much. It's the difference between selling an unmemorable game to a decent number of people and really connecting with a few people. It's the difference between shovelware and a cult classic.
suzy_cheesedreams
1480
Well, I can handle bad controls if the game's world, characters and especially music are still engaging. Of course everyone has different sensibilities and tastes.
I don't understand necessarily how you can have a good story but (unintentionally) unlikable characters, though.
An example of a cool world/bad gameplay game is Psychonauts. I wouldn't shut up about that game a few months ago, but it is sometimes pretty cumbersome and at times, unforgiving. I gave up in the last level because it was too frustrating, but I still thoroughly love that game.
So yes, I agree about your last point. Deadly Premonition is another game I can think of with this kind of forgivable problem. The combat sections are awful, but that doesn't really matter at all. The bizarre boss run at the end of the game more than made up for all those repetitive and lame zombie fights. There are other conventional flaws in that game, but, again, it's great despite them.
I don't understand necessarily how you can have a good story but (unintentionally) unlikable characters, though.
An example of a cool world/bad gameplay game is Psychonauts. I wouldn't shut up about that game a few months ago, but it is sometimes pretty cumbersome and at times, unforgiving. I gave up in the last level because it was too frustrating, but I still thoroughly love that game.
So yes, I agree about your last point. Deadly Premonition is another game I can think of with this kind of forgivable problem. The combat sections are awful, but that doesn't really matter at all. The bizarre boss run at the end of the game more than made up for all those repetitive and lame zombie fights. There are other conventional flaws in that game, but, again, it's great despite them.
What the fuck? In Chrono Cross, I fought the boss at the beach, got the end credits and was sent straight to the title screen. I got no ending. My first and only play through. Are you telling me that I had to do something special to get an ending, because that's some fucking bullshit! I'm fucking pissed off all over again, as if I just played the fucker and it did that shit to me. And don't tell me some shit about how I didn't watch it, because I never turn the fucking credits off. Never in my life have I turned the credits off anything, even a TV show. All I got are credits after the boss fight. I have an original copy; not greatist hits, not PS ONE classics, I have the Playstation case with the black label that I can put on Ebay right now and get 200 dollars for. Is that it? Did I just have the version that didn't come with a fucking ending?
Man, I'm pissed now. That's especially bullshit if one of a game's multiple endings is NO FUCKING ENDING.
Edit: You know what, there's no damned reason to not have an ending. If you're schedule is that tight, you can at least find five fucking minutes to program a text box that says, "Congratulations on finishing the game! Play it again and try to discover all of its secrets!" That is not too much to fucking ask.
Man, I'm pissed now. That's especially bullshit if one of a game's multiple endings is NO FUCKING ENDING.
Edit: You know what, there's no damned reason to not have an ending. If you're schedule is that tight, you can at least find five fucking minutes to program a text box that says, "Congratulations on finishing the game! Play it again and try to discover all of its secrets!" That is not too much to fucking ask.
author=piano
What the fuck? In Chrono Cross, I fought the boss at the beach, got the end credits and was sent straight to the title screen. I got no ending. My first and only play through. Are you telling me that I had to do something special to get an ending, because that's some fucking bullshit!
Yes, you have to properly utilize the Chrono Cross Element you obtain near the end. It's kinda obtuse on what you have to do, but the hints are there. The final boss is structured in a way that you can attempt it over and over again with almost no risk whatsover.
damn u mad as hell tho calm down
Here's the ending for Chrono Cross, starts at about 4:30. The bits before is the shit you pull from the internet / strategy guide on how to trigger it because the in game hints are obscure enough that the only thing missing is Trebor ready to shove his ghost dick down your throat:
tl;dw Chrono Cross is a pile of genuine talent and manhours thrown into a trashbin by the project heads, kinda like the Star Wars Prequels
tl;dw Chrono Cross is a pile of genuine talent and manhours thrown into a trashbin by the project heads, kinda like the Star Wars Prequels
