ARBITRARY DAMAGE CAP

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Yeah, Yiazmat could full heal at ANY point I think. Yiazmat was dumb. I never bothered with him, and he's the ONLY one I never bothered with in FFXII (I swear I'm not going to make him that retarded in my game either...).

As for damage caps? I have no beefs with them, assuming they're done fine. Multi-hitting attacks are essentially a way to override the damage cap anyways (FFVI's X-Fight, Limit Breaks, Quick Hit, etc. to name a few). It's all just a matter of how the game handles its damage output and whatnot. For instance, Chrono Trigger handled this really well I feel (but it handles a lot of things well). Most attacks for most of the game won't really ever go above 1,000-1,500 damage (Dual and Triple Techs sometimes don't even go above 2,000-4,000 damage), and you'll rarely, if ever, see the 9,999 damage cap hit. But really? That's perfectly fine. If the game DIDN'T have a damage cap, then...well, that'd be pretty dumb I feel.

Meanwhile, a game like FFXII where bosses tend to get RIDICULOUS amounts of HP (Omega MK.XII, Yiazmat, Hell Wyrm, and King Behemoth all come to mind here) would've benefited more from having the damage cap removed for the player (instead, you have to use Genji Gloves to do that I think. And you only ever get one I believe?). Even FFXIII would've benefited from it, and I absolutely loathe that game.

...I am not the best at conversing, I realize this.
So the damage cap is balanced in Chrono Trigger by making it near-unobtainable? That doesn't seem like a strong argument for damage caps. In fact, it's never a real example of a thing "done well" if its being only diminished (as that insinuates that it would be even better if removed entirely). Most games have a damage cap in so far that there's a finite of ways to improve your damage output, which means the game doesn't give you any tools to boost your damage further than that.

PS: Yiazmat could full heal only once, which is still one more than there should be.
LouisCyphre
can't make a bad game if you don't finish any games
4523
Yiazmat could only fully heal if you left him alone for too long. You could leave, save, and come back to him with his damage intact if you were fast.
the thing is that in chrono trigger the damage cap is so hard to attain that it actually serves the purpose of informing you "hey you rock! Maxed out stats! Awesome!"
I kind of agree with LockeZ on this one. Damage caps mean you acknowledge the math of whatever it is your doing doesn't scale well, and needs to be limited on the higher end. Caps on stats tend to be more forgivable, but if you have something in your game that can get your characters so far past acceptable stat levels that the game becomes broken, you have an issue anyway.

My favorite games tend to be ones with low numbers, and not a rapid amount of scaling. SMT games tend to be very low numbered, and while some do have damage 'caps', that also tends to be the max amount of HP allowed except for enemies. For the Persona games, this actually allows a difference between instant death spells (which can be resisted/nulled), and 'you done fucked up, now you die' effects that the optional bosses pull.

For Square styled games, it does tend to hard limit your growth. The biggest problem I'm having in Bravely Default at the moment is I ran into the damage cap long ago, and if anything isn't hitting damage cap consistently, it feels under powered...then again, I also hit level cap about 5 chapters ago, and am beginning to despise the repeat boss fights...so...

Quick Edit: I feel designers should aim to keep numbers low, and scaling equally low, because if nothing else it encourages players to experiment with non-direct damage more often. One of the biggest differences between SMT and Square games for me is the former heavily encourages status effects, buffs, debuffs, and focusing on weaknesses. In the latter, after the early game weaknesses don't matter, since everything is hitting max damage anyway, and barring FFXII and FFXIII-Series, buffs/debuffs don't tend to matter.
author=Rine
Quick Edit: I feel designers should aim to keep numbers low, and scaling equally low, because if nothing else it encourages players to experiment with non-direct damage more often. One of the biggest differences between SMT and Square games for me is the former heavily encourages status effects, buffs, debuffs, and focusing on weaknesses. In the latter, after the early game weaknesses don't matter, since everything is hitting max damage anyway, and barring FFXII and FFXIII-Series, buffs/debuffs don't tend to matter.

Paper Mario keeps numbers even lower, but I rarely bother with status effects and debuffs when playing that game. I don't see why low numbers would change the tactics either. How does you having 1,000 hp and enemies doing 300 damage a hit differ from you having 10 hp and enemies dealing 3 points of damage? Perhaps there could be a psychological effect going on, but I doubt this alone will get players to use up turns for defense.

Anyway, I think that damage caps are an ugly half solution to a problem the designer caused in the first place. Damage caps are not needed unless the designer already messed up. If you don't want the player to deal more than a certain amount of damage, why then are you even designing you game so that the player can with reasonable effort reach that amount?

Often the damage cap only works for some attacks. It will cap massive single hit attacks, but multi hit attacks are free to exceed the cap. Even if the game doesn't allow multi hit attacks or restricts them, it still messes up the balance. Suppose among two characters, one deals 120% the damage of the other. Supposedly, the weaker character has another thing going for it. However, once they hit the cap, both are now dealing the same amount of damage. Either the previously weaker character is now obviously superior because it keeps the advantage that was supposed to compensate for having a lower damage output while losing the disadvantage or it also loses the advantage at some point, making the characters more sameich.
BizarreMonkey
I'll never change. "Me" is better than your opinion, dummy!
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author=LockeZ
If you're bad at gameplay balance, damage caps can be a really simple bandaid for certain problems, since they can help ensure that your most important bosses at least survive long enough for the player to see them do some shit. It won't make the boss interesting or engaging, but it'll make it not so completely anticlimactic.

So, I can understand why amateurs would add damage caps to their games. I don't know why Final Fantasy 9 or any professional game has them.
I think it's a marketing gimmick for them at this point, they hooked us on quad 9's.

Now they are bringing the wagon hooooomme.
author=Crystalgate
Paper Mario keeps numbers even lower, but I rarely bother with status effects and debuffs when playing that game. I don't see why low numbers would change the tactics either. How does you having 1,000 hp and enemies doing 300 damage a hit differ from you having 10 hp and enemies dealing 3 points of damage? Perhaps there could be a psychological effect going on, but I doubt this alone will get players to use up turns for defense.

Higher numbers are more useful for fine-tuning stats: If I have a monster with 10 HP and 3 Damage and deem it to be overpowered, making it 10 HP/2 Dam can easily make it too weak. But I can have a lighter nerf when it's 100 HP/30 Dam, as I can reduce the damage from 30 to 25.

Interestingly, Pokémon also starts with very low numbers, even if you won't start on Level 1 - Pokémon on that level can have 11-16 HP and 4-11 on their base stats at most. It goes up to 714 HP and 614 base stats at Level 100 (theoretically, the stat cap for base stats is 669, but no Pokémon has a 255 base in a non-HP stat). And Shuckle can do enough damage to kill Yiazmat four times over.
Psychological effects will cause people to defend more.

When it's easier to calculate the amount of damage it'll take to kill you, you feel more tactical, more willing to play defensively or use items to heal.

Take for example, Dragon Quest, with players starting at 25 HP, and every hit from a Slime that does 1 damage still makes me count down to when I need run back to heal.

25,000 HP and losing 1000 HP per hit... I don't know, I don't feel the same urgency.

Maybe it's just me. (sorry if I went a bit off the rails with this)
author=Nivlacart
Psychological effects will cause people to defend more.

When it's easier to calculate the amount of damage it'll take to kill you, you feel more tactical, more willing to play defensively or use items to heal.


This is the default operation during any boss fight or tactical rpg - as long as you keep turtling, there's no risk of overextending or taking too much damage from an attack. If anything, more RPGs need to encourage aggressive or risky manuevers.
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