RACE AND GENDER IN GAMES

Posts

Solitayre
Circumstance penalty for being the bard.
18722
Sated, I'm getting sick of having to tell you to stop calling people stupid for not agreeing with you.
author=Solitayre
Sated, I'm getting sick of having to tell you to stop calling people stupid for not agreeing with you.


I keep reading your posts in eyore's voice, and the laughter is constantly physically hurting me. And it's awesome.

Just thought you ought to know.
Craze
i bet she's a diva with a potion popping problem
13616
I'd also argue that the Fallout series is 100% a parody of the straight white sharksculture of the mid 1900s, not a celebration. So that's another thing!

But thanks for those links penta!!



i want this character in an RPG now. she seems like a fabulous party member. (from that medievalpoc blog)

MOTOKUCHOMA
If you don't like/care about inclusiveness in games I'd suggest you not to tell people who want it to shut up.

if you've read any of my posts you know that i am 100% supportive of inclusiveness in games. me giving advice to somebody who said they're tired of <mediocre trend x> is not saying inclusiveness is bad... i'd suggest you look at some sassy image macros and pretend they're me looking at you

Solitayre
Circumstance penalty for being the bard.
18722
author=Aegix_Drakan
author=Solitayre
Sated, I'm getting sick of having to tell you to stop calling people stupid for not agreeing with you.
I keep reading your posts in eyore's voice, and the laughter is constantly physically hurting me. And it's awesome.

Just thought you ought to know.


Thanks for noticing me.
author=Solitayre
author=Aegix_Drakan
I keep reading your posts in eyore's voice, and the laughter is constantly physically hurting me. And it's awesome.

Just thought you ought to know.
Thanks for noticing me.


Hello, this is the local coroner.

You may wish to know that the cause of Mr. Aegix's death was "Laughter". Thank you and good day.
author=Sated
Good to know.

In other words, stop doing that.
author=Sooz
Just as an advisory, medievalpoc has been shown to be not all that accurate several times. They're doing decent work, but are REALLY loose on their fact checking.

yes, this is true. Also wikipedia is often an unreliable source (but can still be useful) and if I link something I hope most people don't think that means I endorse everything that person has said/done. Not saying you're doing this here, but it's an assumption that happens more than it should so here's my public statement about it.

And the Pope is Catholic.

Despite the above being true im gonna be real stubborn about advocating medievalpoc as a good source of info. There's a corrections tag. There's apologies. (though those are sometimes used for posts you might not expect them on,idk all the Tag Logic) There's a transparency to things that I super appreciate after one too many sites/blogs/classrooms where that's lacking, and I think everyone is gonna be wrong about things sometimes. If someone wants to research art history or representations of various groups or w/e else, of course they're not gonna rely on one source. And for general readers, I've yet to see her provide information that's seriously misleading and gone uncorrected.

No matter what I link to anyone, I encourage folks who actually follow up on that or interested to learn more, or cross-check sources, or just stop and think. Even if someone turns out wrong about one thing, or certain things, it's not always cause to disregard the source as a whole. I don't usually link things with a tagline of "this is a definitive source" and I try to throw in caveats of "alright I might not agree with X but Y point is solid", but that gets tiring. Oftentimes I link an Outside Thing as a jumping off point or as a "for more information: call this number" type deal. Or if I'm just tired and lazy.

Even linking the poland/frozen tag to craze was more just me being cheeky about "you're assuming this is whiter than it probably was or could have been"* rather than thinking he was making some serious claim about poland or the probability of elsa and anna's skin tone being different (0% because enough people at Disney didn't care)

*for the record this is one of those assumption I don't really fault people for, it's one that's very widespread and usually goes unquestioned unless someone like....idk, looks into it on their own for whatever reason
Sooz
They told me I was mad when I said I was going to create a spidertable. Who’s laughing now!!!
5137
Yeah, mostly I just want people to be aware that they're not an actual historian and have a spotty record, so double-checking things is a must.

I am generally a stickler for accuracy on account of being a huge nerd. :V

That being said, honestly I feel like in most historical fantasy cases, there's enough general mangling of history that throwing in some variation from the accepted norm should be fine. Hell, even if you're being a super stickler, there's enough wiggle room for a lot of options; it's not like the entire world has been made up only of impermeable borders forever!
As a consumer, I'm down for anything. Race and gender in video games don't matter to me at all, really, as long as its not arbitrary, which is difficult, because video games don't have to be based on reality. I'm down for whatever!

Speaking of arbituary though, what I am seeing lately is a big movement from maybe well meaning, but overall self flagellating white people talking a whole lot about racial minority inclusion in video games which is really a subject that they don't intimately understand, thinking they're helping, I guess? Just...stop.

I'm not saying that white people can't talk about these things! But some people veer way outside their lane and they just start to not what they're talking about.
Sooz
They told me I was mad when I said I was going to create a spidertable. Who’s laughing now!!!
5137
Where is the self-flagellation?

Also what aspect of the subject do you think people here are misunderstanding?

Besides, I'm given to understand from several not-white people that they actually would be very happy to be included as protags in fiction, so I tend to go by the assumption that they are not making shit up. I know I personally would like a lot more awesome female protags, so I'm quite happy to see people talking about making that a thing.
Corfaisus
"It's frustrating because - as much as Corf is otherwise an irredeemable person - his 2k/3 mapping is on point." ~ psy_wombats
7527
Helping is good, but I think what Mog is getting at is the whole tendency by the well-off to throw artificial solutions at a problem instead of actually being neck deep in the thick of it like those whom it affects. People want to feel like they can get their own shit straightened out instead of having someone else fix their problems for them.

author=Sooz
Besides, I'm given to understand from several not-white people that they actually would be very happy to be included as protags in fiction, so I tend to go by the assumption that they are not making shit up.

This kind of thinking is exactly the problem. "I'm just giving you want you want; you should be thankful."
author=Liberty
author=Sated
Good to know.
In other words, stop doing that.

No shit, Sherlock.
author=Sooz
Where is the self-flagellation?


It's just a subjective observation, but as a minority, it just seems that relatively recently a good bit of socially conscious, left leaning white people have taken 'being aware of their white privilege' to the next level and have started actively like, shoving their whiteness in a corner and putting it in a box under the bed. Like, I am aware of white privilege and I have discussions on it daily with my comrades in arms when the issue comes up, but I guess I kinda think its weird as fuck to be ASHAMED of being white! I mean, it is what it is.

I'm a dude, and males/men/dude have historically have done heinous shit since like, forever, but I don't think I'd ever be ashamed to be a dude. I just do what I can with what I got and try to be the best dude I can. Sometimes I feel that some white people try to overcompensate in being aware of their white privilege and it just looks odd to me.

If this doesn't apply to you, feel free to move on! I'm not attacking anyone in particular on this site or this topic.

Also what aspect of the subject do you think people here are misunderstanding?


Anyone here? I'd have to scan through the topic. In general? Get back to me on that.

author=Sooz
Besides, I'm given to understand from several not-white people that they actually would be very happy to be included as protags in fiction, so I tend to go by the assumption that they are not making shit up.


Of course, that's not what I mean. I agree that minorities don't get enough representation in media. It doesn't stop me from enjoying a work in particular (in some games it stands out more than others), but no disagreement here,

I know I personally would like a lot more awesome female protags, so I'm quite happy to see people talking about making that a thing.


Of course. As a male, I don't really have a dog in that fight, except of course the statement 'I wholeheartedly agree'. I can't speak for not being a male! I meant racial minorities, so my bad on the lack of clarification.

I'm on duty stuck on base right now, so I'm not at my most eloquent. When I return to this topic I'll be better at words and shit.
Sooz
They told me I was mad when I said I was going to create a spidertable. Who’s laughing now!!!
5137
author=Corfaisus
Helping is good, but I think what Mog is getting at is the whole tendency by the well-off to throw artificial solutions at a problem instead of actually being neck deep in the thick of it like those whom it affects. People want to feel like they can get their own shit straightened out instead of having someone else fix their problems for them.

Has any of this actually shown up in this thread?

Do you think that, say, white people should not try to make nonwhite characters?

ETA:
author=Feldschlacht IV
If this doesn't apply to you, feel free to move on! I'm not attacking anyone in particular on this site or this topic.

Then why are you bringing this up? It doesn't seem terribly helpful or germane to the actual topic if it doesn't apply to what anyone here is saying.
unity
You're magical to me.
12169
author=Corfaisus
Helping is good, but I think what Mog is getting at is the whole tendency by the well-off to throw artificial solutions at a problem instead of actually being neck deep in the thick of it like those whom it affects. People want to feel like they can get their own shit straightened out instead of having someone else fix their problems for them.


Your creation is a living, breathing space that you create. Making a diverse cast isn't just for inclusiveness, it's for building the game you want to build. As long as you aren't creating stereotyped characters or insulting anyone, then what's the problem?

It's true, there are issues that you probably shouldn't tackle without research and talking to people. But you don't have to be some expert on race relations to make a cast that's not all whiteys.
Sooz
They told me I was mad when I said I was going to create a spidertable. Who’s laughing now!!!
5137
Like I am p. sure we are all aware that Dumbass White People exist, but I feel like unless someone here is actively BEING a Dumbass White People, maybe we don't need to talk about them here.
author=Sooz
Then why are you bringing this up? It doesn't seem terribly helpful or germane to the actual topic if it doesn't apply to what anyone here is saying.

I said I'm not attacking anyone, not that I'm not addressing anyone, a post, a series of posts, or a sentiment in this topic.

author=Sooz
Has any of this actually shown up in this thread?

From what I've skimmed through? Yes. Like I said though, more on that later.

Do you think that, say, white people should not try to make nonwhite characters?

I think people should just write whatever the fuck they want to write (the expletive wasn't directed at you). Of course, critical thinking and 'natural flow of art' aren't mutually exclusive, but all of your characters just so happen to be white, or if they just so happen to be black, or gay, or straight, or whatever, do what you want. If you want to write in minorities or less represented groups, go for it (do your research, but other than that, go for it).

But as an artist you're not beholden to anyone to write whatever, or whoever, and as a consumer we can either consume art of course criticize it positively or negatively (and hope the artist listens to our feedback), or just put it down and enjoy something else.
Sooz
They told me I was mad when I said I was going to create a spidertable. Who’s laughing now!!!
5137
author=Feldschlacht IV
But as an artist you're not beholden to anyone to write whatever, or whoever, and as a consumer we can either consume art of course criticize it positively or negatively (and hope the artist listens to our feedback), or just put it down and enjoy something else.


I don't think anyone has said this though?

I guess I'll have to wait for you to get around to your examples, because so far as I've read I haven't seen anything about being ashamed of being the majority or anything, so your posting confuses me.
unity
You're magical to me.
12169
author=Feldschlacht IV
author=Sooz
Then why are you bringing this up? It doesn't seem terribly helpful or germane to the actual topic if it doesn't apply to what anyone here is saying.
I said I'm not attacking anyone, not that I'm not addressing anyone, a post, a series of posts, or a sentiment in this topic.

author=Sooz
Has any of this actually shown up in this thread?


From what I've skimmed through? Yes. Like I said though, more on that later.

Do you think that, say, white people should not try to make nonwhite characters?


I think people should just write whatever the fuck they want to write (the expletive wasn't directed at you). Of course, critical thinking and 'natural flow of art' aren't mutually exclusive, but all of your characters just so happen to be white, or if they just so happen to be black, or gay, or straight, or whatever, do what you want. If you want to write in minorities or less represented groups, go for it (do your research, but other than that, go for it).

But as an artist you're not beholden to anyone to write whatever, or whoever, and as a consumer we can either consume art of course criticize it positively or negatively (and hope the artist listens to our feedback), or just put it down and enjoy something else.


Fair enough. I'm not advocating forcing anyone to do anything with their own work. But have you never talked to non-white friends, who find the lack of relatable characters in media baffling? I would personally like to remedy that a little bit. Not from any sort of sense of guilt, but because why not? It makes me happy and doesn't cost me anything.