EXTRA PLAYABLE CHARACTERS FOR PERSONALIZATION VS PLAYSTYLE

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Ratty524
The 524 is for 524 Stone Crabs
12986
This has been on my mind for a while. I remember reading a game review somewhere that criticized the way a game handles multiple characters. Specifically, it pointed out that each character didn't add anything different to the gameplay with anything other than a simple change in appearance, and the whole addition of extra characters was called "pointless."

I wonder why this is? To me, the ability to choose from multiple characters, on a fundamental basis, is to allow players to play as someone they can identify with. I don't think giving multiple characters a set playstyle is a bad thing, but how is the other way around a bad thing? ... or is it all just neutral and dependent on other factors of the game?

What are your thoughts, RMN?
It depends on whether it has a story-foundation or not. And what the player is used to and expects to see.

To me, a set character gives a stronger foundation for the lore, history and plot - including character interactions. Knowing someone else can take the spot in the exact same way can seem odd. Most changeable characters are kinda neutral or very malleable in their character and opinions to make up for that (or fully custom or f/m)

If you have a set of characters to choose from you may expect differences (due to this happening in many commercial games - where you either have a set of few, like multiple storylines, or fully custom or f/m version) but any time I encountered it I did appreciate the ability to change appearance (I remember a dungeoncrawler I started recently here having the option to change appearances freely, even with the class being to it upon the first selection. So kinda interchangeably).
Generally,

options = good.
if options are tied to more differences = great

The expectations should be taking into consideration though depending on what kind of game you are making. The fact you are choosing from a selected pool of characters make it appear more like different characters to play rather than the main character being malleable. And often different characters are tied in with slightly different skillsets and abilities.
Nevertheless, especially for fighting-heavy games it is really great to have the option to change appearance.
If it's a story-heavy game, or has larger portions in it.. careful.
Well, if the guy doesn't care about his appearance, or liked the initial character the best, then for him I guess it would be pretty pointless.
Probably a bit petty to really hold it against the game, though. (Granted, you didn't give any context for what kind of game this is)
Also keep in mind that some people consider entire games and difficulty modes pointless if they don't give you achievements or trading cards...
Corfaisus
"It's frustrating because - as much as Corf is otherwise an irredeemable person - his 2k/3 mapping is on point." ~ psy_wombats
7874
When a game has an extraordinarily large cast of characters to choose from, you're going to have overlap in terms of playstyle, so you're going to need characterization to help bridge the gaps. If the game follows up having too many characters with most of them also behaving the same or having the same backgrounds, that's when it fails.

Gameplay-wise (and especially in an RPG), the more characters you have to work with, the more busywork you have to put into making sure they're properly equipped and leveled for when they're needed. This is one of my biggest complaints with FF8. I mean, sure, you've got Drawing which is already tedious enough but isn't a completely broken system, but when you couple that with having two full teams worth of characters and having to bounce your GFs/magic between them, you have to draw the line somewhere.

"Keep it simple, stupid." Automate, don't infuriate.

Then there's the equipment, which you can't get through traditional means and instead have to grind to get materials for in order to make them. It wouldn't surprise me in the least if some people used the Revolver up until getting the Ragnarok and then perhaps going for the Lionheart, strictly because of how the deck is stacked against the player.

In short, you really have to know what you're doing before you inflate the roster. If anything, I think most games that star more than one full party's worth of playable characters (I see you over there in the corner, FF6) should shave it down and get more mileage out of their villains instead (aside from FF9 because the characters in that game are wildly different* enough as it is).

*One of your characters is a straight-up chef; a CHEF who stabs monsters to death with a FORK! When was the last time you saw that in your Dragon Warrior-clone class selection list?
Craze
why would i heal when i could equip a morningstar
15150
i always use the prettiest characters
I think Personality and Playstyle should always be kept together - not only do they follow the same rules, a character's playstyle should ideally reflect their personality.

You're not really giving players any options if your characters are too same-ish by either personality, playstyle or both. At best, your game loses replay value. At worst, it makes your game look like a lazy copypaste environment.
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
5958
Having characters all be exactly the same in combat is the same as letting the player equip different weapons that are all the same but have different appearances, or like making all the magic spells do the same thing but have different animations. It's... it's just pointless. You already did 95% of the work, you created the graphical assets and incorporated the character into the game. You can't take the one extra step to add actual gameplay?

It's a place where gameplay is expected, so when it's missing, to the player it feels like you consciously deleted it, rather than like you simply didn't add it. Theoretically you might think that it's no different than letting the player choose their hairstyle, but the difference is all about player expectations. The player gets hyped up and then let down; that's not a good thing.
Ratty524
The 524 is for 524 Stone Crabs
12986
author=LockeZ
Having characters all be exactly the same in combat is the same as letting the player equip different weapons that are all the same but have different appearances, or like making all the magic spells do the same thing but have different animations. It's... it's just pointless. You already did 95% of the work, you created the graphical assets and incorporated the character into the game. You can't take the one extra step to add actual gameplay?

It's a place where gameplay is expected, so when it's missing, to the player it feels like you consciously deleted it, rather than like you simply didn't add it. Theoretically you might think that it's no different than letting the player choose their hairstyle, but the difference is all about player expectations. The player gets hyped up and then let down; that's not a good thing.


True, but can't you also get let down when you find a character you like for their appearance/design, yet find out their gameplay unsuitable to your playstyle or just obsolete? It's probably one of my biggest peeves of fighting and mmo games, because due to some "meta" I feel like I'm constantly getting punished for playing someone/something that appeals to me.
author=Ratty524
author=LockeZ
Having characters all be exactly the same in combat is the same as letting the player equip different weapons that are all the same but have different appearances, or like making all the magic spells do the same thing but have different animations. It's... it's just pointless. You already did 95% of the work, you created the graphical assets and incorporated the character into the game. You can't take the one extra step to add actual gameplay?

It's a place where gameplay is expected, so when it's missing, to the player it feels like you consciously deleted it, rather than like you simply didn't add it. Theoretically you might think that it's no different than letting the player choose their hairstyle, but the difference is all about player expectations. The player gets hyped up and then let down; that's not a good thing.
True, but can't you also get let down when you find a character you like for their appearance/design, yet find out their gameplay unsuitable to your playstyle or just obsolete? It's probably one of my biggest peeves of fighting and mmo games, because due to some "meta" I feel like I'm constantly getting punished for playing someone/something that appeals to me.


Not having any gameplay differences is a bigger letdown for me than having an undesirable playstyle on a character I like. Then again, a big factor in how much I like playable characters is their gameplay style. Still, if the character you chose is inferior to the point of not being viable in the slightest and only a tiny fraction of the roster being useful, chances are that the game isn't fun in general.
Corfaisus
"It's frustrating because - as much as Corf is otherwise an irredeemable person - his 2k/3 mapping is on point." ~ psy_wombats
7874
And then I remembered I wrote an article years back relevant to discussions like these...

author=Corfaisus
If you've ever played any game ever, you'll know the importance of giving all characters some manner of personality to make them unique in their own world and establish sound reasoning for their place in the plot. Though, simply having just "some sort of personality" doesn't quite cut it with the more text-heavy RPG, so going the extra mile to not only give sound reasoning for their actions but also for their dialogue is typically priority number one. Diversity in the characters the player will get to know throughout the experience will not only help establish that only-too-important initial attraction, but also aid to maintain interest in the overarching story and what these people mean for your quest as party arrangements shift during key scenes, such as a hero going their separate way after a dispute, or a divide-and-conquer tactic during a siege on the enemy fortress.

A good personality will only get you so far, unfortunately, and some talent may be part of your saving grace. The characters of this story should also have different stats and abilities to ensure that, even given the chance to increase stats/learn spells through special items, they maintain their personal significance and therefore allow the player to "find their own rhythm", as it were. As this is the case, extra steps taken to decrease the likelihood that your audience will utter the dreaded line "I've played this RPG before" can make all the difference in making your game stand out amongst the masses. Steal, Scan, Blue Magic, and all other sorts of add-ins are a good first step, but you can definitely do better as these still fall nicely into "been there, done that" territory. People appreciate creativity, so scramble your brain and pull out a winner!

After this is all said and done, there is one piece of important information I feel I should drop here. Ahem...

For the love of God, if you're going to cut a certain character out of the experience all together (or at least for a chapter or two), please don't choose the badass, high-stat, versatile character that everyone enjoys playing as, because such a moment might lead to the player losing interest in your game in general if now they're forced to make the lazy, whiny, snot-nosed character the leader.
.. I just realized it wasn't about the personalization of the main character you control but general characters ....

.. whoops.

Keep it simple, sweetheart.
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
5958
author=Ratty524
True, but can't you also get let down when you find a character you like for their appearance/design, yet find out their gameplay unsuitable to your playstyle or just obsolete?
Ah, the pain of wanting to make a team of nothing but lolis, but needing a tank. I know it well. But I think getting the player to try playing in ways they wouldn't normally try if they had complete freedom is actually important.

If your gameplay is well crafted, then playing as a weird-ass team with strange synergy will actually be an enjoyable experience and make them feel like they're doing something they wouldn't do in other games. And at the same time, if your writing is well crafted, then playing as a character whom the player isn't initially crazy about will make the player interested in additional layers of the story beyond what they expected. These seem like important ways to draw the player deeper into your game and keep them from getting bored, though you should wait until after they're initially hooked.
author=LockeZ
author=Ratty524
True, but can't you also get let down when you find a character you like for their appearance/design, yet find out their gameplay unsuitable to your playstyle or just obsolete?
Ah, the pain of wanting to make a team of nothing but lolis, but needing a tank. I know it well. But I think getting the player to try playing in ways they wouldn't normally try if they had complete freedom is actually important.

If your gameplay is well crafted, then playing as a weird-ass team with strange synergy will actually be an enjoyable experience and make them feel like they're doing something they wouldn't do in other games. And at the same time, if your writing is well crafted, then playing as a character whom the player isn't initially crazy about will make the player interested in additional layers of the story beyond what they expected. These seem like important ways to draw the player deeper into your game and keep them from getting bored, though you should wait until after they're initially hooked.


Loli Tank:


Anyways, Dungeons & Dragons 4e has a number of ways you can vary your strategy if your party is unbalanced:

(4e roles defined in Spoiler for reference)
Striker: High DPS towards a single target.
Controller: DPS to a group and delibitating effects.
Defender: Protects the group from damage; a tank basically.
Leader: Heals and buffs the group and such.


Having mostly Strikers and Controllers will make battles more of a DPS race or a kiting exercise, perhaps also big on Crowd Control to avoid letting the opponent getting attacks in, while having many Defenders is mostly about turtling. A Leader-centric party can focus on turtling or buffing a Striker/Controller so hard that they mops up the enemies in seconds. Not having a Defender means that you need to find other ways to migitate the damage from the opponents, while the lack of a Leader mandates a fast, agressive playstyle as you will lose a war of attrition.
If there's room to nurture each character differently, then, it's the player creating unique characters, and his or her own gameplay. (SaGa series)
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