MOGSPECTIVE: FINAL FANTASY V

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So I'm starting a thing!

Every so often (every week or so, or as the preceding topics fade), I'll make a Mogspective; a topic where I discuss a game I like and want to focus on, and why I think you should give it a try. Mostly I'll discuss RPGs, but every so often I'll mix it up. You guys then discuss and talk about it a little as well! Keep in mind this is all my opinion, subjective, so feel free to disagree. Let me know if you like this, so I can keep doing it.

This week, I want to talk about Final Fantasy V, an entry in one of the most iconic video game series of all time, and for me, an underrepped classic.




WHY I LIKE IT

In my opinion, FFV is by far one of the best Final Fantasies in terms of gameplay, offering a great application of the Job system with a gradual, organic progression of strength, a deceptively complex, yet solid battle system, and narrative flow. The plot, while more whimsical in nature compared to the other titles, I find refreshing, and it carries the game on its own.



WHY I THINK YOU SHOULD LIKE IT

Final Fantasy V is among the crux of the quintessential 'old school' RPG experiences, having the design charm and aesthetics of classic titles, while dabbling into modern gameplay tenets like Skill Points, party management, and nonlinear battle tactics.



Final Fantasy V, also has something that many, many Final Fantasies have missed the mark on, before and since, something I like to call the 'Dungeon/Life Balance'. Dungeons in this game seem to be just right; they're not too long, not too short, not too frustrating or infuriating, and the game manages to balance your party's journey between dangerous dungeons, important plot events, and safe zones like towns and castles perfectly.



It really feels that your party is going on a journey around the world, and not suffocated through dungeon fatigue, and you never feel too 'safe', either, as a challenge is right around the corner. Many accolades have been said about FFV's battle gameplay, but I think this is something that a lot of people miss when they judge the game.

All in all, I think FFV is a great entry in the series, and a refreshing breath of air in a series that often leaves fans hungry one way or the other. It's worth a look if you haven't already!
You should totally post this an an article rather than as a forum topic. People can still post comments in articles :)

Anyway, I understand that FFV has a unique gameplay system like the Job system and the 'Dungeon/Life Balance', but I just don't like FFV for some reason. I don't know... It just feels...generic.
Final Fantasy V is so good. So good. It's up there with 7 and 9 as my favourites in the entire series.

I wrote a little essay about FFV a while back, but I never managed to touch on the "Dungeon/Life" thing- now that you say it, it seems really obvious, but I guess it wasn't in the forefront of my mind. The game's pacing is stellar, it's one of the few RPGs I feel like I could sit down and play all day without even realizing I'd been passing so much time.

People often say the plot is bad or uninspired or generic, but honestly, I always thought it was really brilliantly simple. They knew the draw was the gameplay, but they still crafted an entertaining and humourous story with some great characters (Galuf being one of my favourite RPG party members ever). I especially find it refreshing to have an RPG with a comical story that never resorts to lame jokes at the genre's expense or "point out the cliche" moments like so many groan worthy modern comedy RPGs do.

The soundtrack is completely fantastic, too. I honestly can't think of a single song on it that I find boring or hard to listen to.

Now I want to play it again. God damn.
Corfaisus
"It's frustrating because - as much as Corf is otherwise an irredeemable person - his 2k/3 mapping is on point." ~ psy_wombats
7874
author=eplipswich
It just feels...generic.

What I like is that it completes all that it sets out to do while blessing you with great music, excellent level design (I mean, look at that castle) and a job system that is second to none. Everything is really bright and cheery so it engages that inherent childlike imagination in your brain and invites you in.

It's a very comforting world to experience with plenty of baddies to fight, as is the goal of many JRPGs.

Really, if I could point to any game outside of Clouded Heart for the RPG Maker 2000 that originally inspired or continues to inspire me to map better, it'd be FFV. It packs so much detail in such a small amount of space.
unity
You're magical to me.
12540
I have nothing but love for FF5 and I've played through it multiple times. While the story may not be the best especially in today's standards, I always find that it's perfect for the game, as even though it's simple and follows the whole cookie cutter "evil villain out to destroy the world(s)" scenario, it still allows the characters to flourish and do their thing while still being enjoyable.

There are so many ways to play the game and it's all put together so nicely. I must confess that it's a dream of mine to make a game that feels very FFVish and replicates the job system but with new jobs (as best as RPG Maker can, which, honestly, I haven't really looked into as much as I should. I wonder how close you could get) while being simplistic on plot while still having solid characters. Maybe someday ^_^

EDIT: Also want to chime in that the "Dungeon/Life Balance" that you mentioned is something I hadn't really thought about, but is very cool. Something I should keep in mind for my own projects in the future :D
Maybe I should really give FFV another chance.
author=unity
There are so many ways to play the game and it's all put together so nicely.


It really is. The pacing of gameplay is fantastic; it opens itself up consistently throughout the entire game, very rarely you complete a sequence and NOT find something new.

author=eplipswich
Maybe I should really give FFV another chance.


I really think you should! I remember the first time I played it, I couldn't get past the first 30 minutes, because I thought it was lame as hell. But once you really get into it (read: immediately after that 30 minutes) and embrace it for its straightforward nature, you really can learn to love it.
The characters, writing, and dialog are horrible and cheesy as fuck. and I LIKE generic storylines and cliched characters. but all of the characters in the game are gungho chirpy overwrought bombastic dweebs. I am shaking my head just thinking about it. someone once explained it to me that it's because FFV is more like an anime's plot, to which I thought "that explains why I don't really enjoy animes"

The gameplay punishes you for experimenting, as the job system limits you severely unless you grind out the class to mastery. It's cruel that it gives you so many options for skills but only gives you one slot with which to choose. The "deep job system" is an illusion - it's really just 'excessive grind system to unlock perks for your freelancer class'. This wasted potential really irks me and to this day I want to make an RPG that improves on it.

And the final battle was annoying as fuck and I had to use an exploit to win it as Exdeath had the ability to oneshot my entire party.

I don't remember any of the music. (None of it was memorable to me.)

The game itself had little to no powerful or striking scenes (unlike FFIV, FFVI and FFVII). It is kind of a dull predictable game.

FFV is game I really wanted to like (job systems? crystals?! 4 heroes of light?? fuck yes!), but I didn't. It's not as good as FFIV, VI or VII.

So yeah, FFV is underrepped, but not without reason.
Boo!

(but it's an acceptable opinion. However I don't get the fuss about FFIV in some respects)

author=kentona
The game itself had little to no powerful or striking scenes (unlike FFIV, FFVI and FFVII).

Not even Galuf vs. ExDeath?

author=kentona
The gameplay punishes you for experimenting, as the job system limits you severely unless you grind out the class to mastery.

How so?
author=Feldschlacht IV
Boo!

(but it's an acceptable opinion. However I don't get the fuss about FFIV in some respects)

author=kentona
The game itself had little to no powerful or striking scenes (unlike FFIV, FFVI and FFVII).


Not even Galuf vs. ExDeath?

I don't remember that scene. I played the game less than 2 years ago. What happens again?

author=kentona
The gameplay punishes you for experimenting, as the job system limits you severely unless you grind out the class to mastery.


How so?

By only giving you only 1 free slot to put in one of the dozen or so skills you learned from other classes. Very limiting. Or you pick a Freelancer for maximum experimentation at the cost of arresting all class growth as you play the game. Which means that you either pick one class and one other complimentary skill and roll with it (wasting all the potential of 20+ classes), or you grind and grind and grind so that you can make a viable Freelancer build.

There's a lot of wasted potential here and that's frustrating and unsatisfactory.

Couple that with a final boss that is killable only by very specific builds (or a lot of grinding) (or exploits) and the game's "customization" is further cemented as an illusion.
author=kentona
By only giving you only 1 free slot to put in one of the dozen or so skills you learned from other classes. Very limiting. Or you pick a Freelancer for maximum experimentation at the cost of arresting all class growth as you play the game. Which means that you either pick one class and one other complimentary skill and roll with it (wasting all the potential of 20+ classes), or you grind and grind and grind so that you can make a viable Freelancer build.

There's a lot of wasted potential here and that's frustrating and unsatisfactory.

Couple that with a final boss that is killable only by very specific builds (or a lot of grinding) (or exploits) and the game's "customization" is further cemented as an illusion.


I think that's sort of fair, but I think that's more of a product of its age, than anything. In terms of customization, it was lightyears ahead of every FF that came before it, especially the very first iteration of the job system, FFIII.

Even like, years later, FFT didn't deviate much, either.

author=kentona
Couple that with a final boss that is killable only by very specific builds (or a lot of grinding) (or exploits) and the game's "customization" is further cemented as an illusion.


That's not true; ExDeath is challenging to be sure, but there's about a million and one ways to kill him. It's definitely more flexible than 'Zeromus uses Big Bang every other turn' FFIV.
kentona
By only giving you only 1 free slot to put in one of the dozen or so skills you learned from other classes. Very limiting. Or you pick a Freelancer for maximum experimentation at the cost of arresting all class growth as you play the game. Which means that you either pick one class and one other complimentary skill and roll with it (wasting all the potential of 20+ classes), or you grind and grind and grind so that you can make a viable Freelancer build.

Placing the player in a situation where they have to strategize their build by only selecting a single class ability to go with their main isn't a weakness, it's a strength of the battle system. The idea is that you change your party loadout as the dungeons change, and steadily accrue new skills along the way, building your options- which is what happens. You're never put in a situation where building a party is something you don't have to put good thought into, or where it's something you have to bust your balls figuring out.

The game would feel too broken or easy if you could just instantly get all the class abilities and smack three onto every character with no downside- which is the point of the Freelancer, incidentally- an endgame class which accrues the highest base stats of classes you've mastered and is allowed to wield any ability.

I just really, really, really disagree that "choice is an illusion" in FFV. In the face of literally every other FF and a lot of other JRPGs that statement is a fucking joke. Sorry, bossman.

The only point I would agree on is the grinding, in a very specific place- the endgame. Last time I played I wasn't able to beat the final dungeon without spending a lot f time grinding. In this one instance the game feels badly balanced, but otherwise it's a dream to play. Who knows- maybe I just didn't know what I was doing.

EDIT: Thinking about it, the fact that so many four job fiesta games succeed makes me wary of believing that only specific strats can beat Neo ExDeath.
I've been itching to give FF5 another playthrough but I'm holding off until Four Job Fiesta goes live.

gunna be a gud time
author=Pizza
kentona
By only giving you only 1 free slot to put in one of the dozen or so skills you learned from other classes. Very limiting. Or you pick a Freelancer for maximum experimentation at the cost of arresting all class growth as you play the game. Which means that you either pick one class and one other complimentary skill and roll with it (wasting all the potential of 20+ classes), or you grind and grind and grind so that you can make a viable Freelancer build.
Placing the player in a situation where they have to strategize their build by only selecting a single class ability to go with their main isn't a weakness, it's a strength of the battle system. The idea is that you change your party loadout as the dungeons change, and steadily accrue new skills along the way, building your options- which is what happens. You're never put in a situation where building a party is something you don't have to put good thought into, or where it's something you have to bust your balls figuring out.

The game would feel too broken or easy if you could just instantly get all the class abilities and smack three onto every character with no downside- which is the point of the Freelancer, incidentally- an endgame class which accrues the highest base stats of classes you've mastered and is allowed to wield any ability.

I just really, really, really disagree that "choice is an illusion" in FFV. In the face of literally every other FF and a lot of other JRPGs that statement is a fucking joke. Sorry, bossman.

The only point I would agree on is the grinding, in a very specific place- the endgame. Last time I played I wasn't able to beat the final dungeon without spending a lot f time grinding. In this one instance the game feels badly balanced, but otherwise it's a dream to play. Who knows- maybe I just didn't know what I was doing.

EDIT: Thinking about it, the fact that so many four job fiesta games succeed makes me wary of believing that only specific strats can beat Neo ExDeath.

I never felt compelled to change my class loadout based on the challenges I was facing in dungeons. My experimentation was based on curiosity more than anything else (except for switching out to a Thief to see hidden passages). Having only one slot felt artificially limiting and ultimately dull.

I only ever beat the game once, but for the final boss none of my characters or classes had enough HP to survive Exdeath's "big bang equivalent" attack. Reading up on it at the time I remember that very specific strats (like some Chemist skill that could make Exdeath confused iirc) or grinding until you have sufficient stats seemed to be only way of beating him. I used an exploit instead because I was tired of the game and wanted it done.
I think "choice is an illusion" is probably the wrong way of phrasing that. Maybe "progression is an illusion" is a better way to put it.

Besides the freelancer class, the only feeling of progression you get while working on other skills is the visual joy of seeing meters fill up and the extra skill, which is more often than not going to be filled with white magic, time magic, or 4x hit. Don't get me wrong--I think that it's a cool system, and it's a big inspiration for Jimmy and the Pulsating Mass's imagination system--but, yeah, there's not much encouragement to go for most of the classes except for a couple of gimmick dungeons and for grinding movers in the last level to improve your freelancers. The system would have been a lot cooler if the stat increases you get for job masteries were applied to you regardless of class change. Or, maybe, you could also get some of the utility skills as permanent passives from mastering classes like "equip ribbon" and "passage"--nothing game-breaking, but just an incentive to build all of the classes up.
as usual Housekeeping articulated what I was experiencing in the game better than I could.

E:
basically, the slot was almost always going to be filled with an optimal choice like White Magic or 4x hit, leaving the rest to languish.

Even having something as innocuous as a slot for an 'Active' skill and a 'Passive' skill would have been appreciated. So that could run instead of walking without having a Thief
unity
You're magical to me.
12540
I must admit, I feel like FFT greatly improved on the class system by having more options to put in abilities learned from other classes, like a slot for Counter abilities, Move abilities, etc. Housekeeping's idea of permanent passives is cool, too! (May steal that XD)

Still, I think FFV was great for its time and I still enjoy replaying it. ^_^
Yeah, FFT also encourages more experimentation because of your party size. I think that a lot of us were underwhelmed by FFV because our first real look at this class system came from FFT, which was a better implementation of it, and then we got the playstation FFV release. In historical context, though, it was a pretty awesome alternative to Dragon Quest's class system.

I agree with Kentona about the plot, too. Even FFIV, which was cheese city, had more relatable characters. The music was indeed pretty forgettable, too--except for Clash on the Big Bridge.

By the way, I like this thread a lot. FFV is flawed, and we're stressing the flaws, but it was still fun, and there's a lot to learn from it. I've been thinking about making threads like this for some lesser-known games, too. I played through Mystic Ark earlier this year and wanted to publicly dissect the hell out of it since it's got some really awesome aspects (and really terrible aspects), but I assumed I was probably the only person who had played the damn thing.
author=Housekeeping
By the way, I like this thread a lot. FFV is flawed, and we're stressing the flaws, but it was still fun, and there's a lot to learn from it. I've been thinking about making threads like this for some lesser-known games, too.


Oh don't worry, some lesser known games are going to get love from this series, too. The goal of these threads are to not only discuss the games, but to analyze them a bit too, and hopefully get some people to play them!
Corfaisus
"It's frustrating because - as much as Corf is otherwise an irredeemable person - his 2k/3 mapping is on point." ~ psy_wombats
7874
The fact that you can spam the best stuff you've got and still be faced with a challenge should speak to Final Fantasy V's balance and strategic approach. Just because you've got Blizzara Spellblade on your heavy hitter(s) doesn't make Liquid Flame any easier. If anything, setting your party up to get the most out of your damage output will only kill you faster because of stuff like Blaze.

And who's really going to try and go up against Garula with four monks and try and out-DPS him? I mean, really.

Being able to work your way out of a pinch by finding a strategy that works on the fly has always been a delight in these RPGs. IIRC, I remember being too weak to fight Archeoaevis and instead used a sort of backdoor route of Vampire and ???? and just used my own HP stat as my weapon.
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