WHAT SIZE IS FULL SCREEN - DEBATE

Posts

Pages: first 12 next last
Once upon a time it was easy for games and web pages to be designed at 800x600 and everybody to happily play them in full screen mode, but these days there are as many screen sizes as there are types of machine to play them on. If you want something to be multi-platform then you're looking at working at an even more complex level. This isn't really a problem for RPG Maker, but those constructing games using scratch built or custom games have to think carefully about it before they can even start to work on graphics.

So - what resolution do you as a player consider 'full screen', is it important in a modern day environment to cater to smaller screen sizes (800x600 etc) and does a game even still need to run as a full screen application to be taken seriously?
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
5958
I feel like you don't fully understand part of the first question you're asking. The resolution of a game has nothing to do with the user's desktop resolution, as monitors switch screen modes when running a game. Nearly every game you've ever played has been running at a different resolution than your desktop.

Higher resolution is obviously better. If players have the option to increase the game's resolution, they will invariably do so until it starts to lag. However in a 2D game, having a higher resolution means you need to either draw larger, more detailed sprites and backgrounds, or else increase the viewable area on the screen which affects the gameplay and makes the game feel "zoomed out."

Also, obviously, it's absolutely vital that your game function properly on both fullscreen and widescreen monitors.

I've never seen a game other than browser games that doesn't run as a fullscreen application, and I've never seen an engine that doesn't support fullscreen by default, so the answer to your last question is A) yes and B) impossible for you to mess up.
What I do is design everything for 320x180 (16:9), but I include similar internal resolutions for 320x200 (16:10), and 320x240 (4:3). As long as the GUI fits in 320x180, it will fit in all of the rest. Other aspect ratios just get to see a little more on the map. You can also set custom resolutions in a configuration file, but results may vary.

For fullscreen, I detect and recommend any resolutions supported by the user's display that are a multiple of the internal resolution, though a stretched resolution may be chosen in spite of that.
/\ that's kinda similar to what I do--except in ace so I use 640 x 352 which is the closest to 640x360 (16:9) that still supports whole tiles. The good thing about using relatively low pixels is that you can zoom them to uneven sizes like 5.12x and the deformations in zooming up will not appear.
I actually wrote a pretty lengthy discussion of how this is handled for SaGa4: https://rpgmaker.net/games/7236/blog/15984/

tl;dr: most map-based games you can't just straight scale up the viewport and most pixel-based games you can't just scale up the sprites, so do everything in whole number multiples and get as close to native resolution as you can

Keep in mind this is for a game with a UI that's intentionally retro. For actual UI that's supposed to adaptively fill and make the most of its space... well, that's more a job for a UX designer and I generally suck at that stuff.
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
5958
author=JosephSeraph
The good thing about using relatively low pixels is that you can zoom them to uneven sizes like 5.12x and the deformations in zooming up will not appear.

That is... absolutely not true. It will 100% look janky as fuck on every single monitor in the world.
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
5958
Are you trying to convince me that's not FUCKING HORRIFYING? Because it's FUCKING HORRIFYING. The pixels are all fucked up and I'd rather kill myself than play a game that's stretched out unevenly like that.

The second one is way less bad, but still very clearly not right.
It's... not... and I'd probably only notice it on the fourth or fifth play session if I'd notice it at all and hey, I am a pixel and digital artist and i stare at pixels all day...

Buuuut it's your opinion! Everybody can have opinions! Yay!
Have a facebook gratitude flower.



And have a nice day.
author=JosephSeraph
/\ that's kinda similar to what I do--except in ace so I use 640 x 352 which is the closest to 640x360 (16:9) that still supports whole tiles. The good thing about using relatively low pixels is that you can zoom them to uneven sizes like 5.12x and the deformations in zooming up will not appear.


Terrible idea. No display conforms to that weird resolution, such that any nearest-neighbor upscaling will result in uneven pixel widths and shuffling. The latter is especially unsettling and noticeable during play. I allow this lind of stretching to occur for the weirdos that want it, but my default internal resolutions are specifically chosen because they perfectly scale to the most common displays, whereas yours does not. Reconsider.
author=JosephSeraph
I am a pixel and digital artist and i stare at pixels all day...

Well just because you stare at pixels all day doesn't mean the majority of us people/gamers do.

And I have to chip in that the first one looks pretty pixelated, particularly the words and the sprite/portrait outlines (which is not cool).

As for the topic itself, I don't really care the technical details of what "full screen" is as long as the game is in full screen: it covers the whole monitor screen. But of course, higher resolution means better quality.
Ratty524
The 524 is for 524 Stone Crabs
12986
... What's wrong with the second/bottom image example again? I also think the top example was meant to show what happens when you make a standard zoom, while the other shows what happens when you don't. The bottom scales pixels evenly and looks far from the mess that's the top.
Oh @jude, the resolution is actually technically 640x360 -- it just has 4 pixel horizontal bars. Also I don't have much choice given I'm forced to adapt to the 32x32 tile grid of RPG Maker. Lest there be a magic number I've yet to acknowledge, any value that isn't a multiple of 32 will have camera centralization problems and stuff. So welp, the nearest thing I can do is this. And as you can see on the screenshots it is barely noticeable.

eplipswich
Well just because you stare at pixels all day doesn't mean the majority of us people/gamers do.
Exactly what I mean. If someone would notice it, that would be a pixel artist.

eplipswich
And I have to chip in that the first one looks pretty pixelated, particularly the words and the sprite/portrait outlines (which is not cool).

Exactly, once again. The first one is abominable. However when you multiply by bigger values it becomes harder and harder to notice there's something wrong. When the engine forces you to use a weird resolution, I find there to be a threshold between immersion breaking parallel bars and broken pixels. And if your target resolution is around 5x bigger than the render resoluion, I'd say you can begin to consider eschewing parallel bars.


@edit: i hadn't seen ratty's reply when i posted this, but the post below is very explanatory so I don't need to address it. But hey ratty's an example that its pretty hard to see uneven scaling when you're scaling like 520%! :V
Oooh, I love this stuff.
Technical crap for those that want to understand this topic at a granular level:


(Taken from the 2nd image, the nicer of the two)

Bickering aside, as one can see, the the scaled pixels alternate between 5x5, 5x6, 6x6 and 6x5 when that image is scaled up to 1320x880. It looks okay to the untrained eye, and it's kind of annoying to the folks who notice it, but what they're noticing is pixel scaling. With that said, there's not a whole lot you can control about it. Period. That's kind of how you have to look at it, because it depends completely the display resolution of the physical monitor itself and what it's capabilities are. It's an unknown variable.

With portable consoles, pixel scaling is always 1:1 because the screens are still relatively small enough that they don't require scaling. What you absolutely can control is the aspect ratio, which is what Jude was talking about. If you are developing from the ground up, you can take aspect ratio into account to figure out your desired scaling preference. JS is right in that by picking the right resolution that works for your game, you can minimize undesirable pixel scaling while still maximizing common screen ratios.

For instance, GBA games are 240x160, which is a 3:2 ratio, nonstandard for PCs... so scaling that up to 1920 width (800%) would require a height of 1280 (higher than 16:10's 1200px, and 16:9's 1080px). Let's say you had a 16:10 monitor. In order to see the whole picture in the correct aspect ratio, you have to scale it to the height of 1200, making the width 1800 (750%). 1800x1200 isn't a standard windows resolution, so, it has to use 1920x1200, but pads it with black bars on the left & right (pillarboxing) to retain that aspect ratio. If you absolutely had to have 1:1 pixel scaling, the closest you could get in that case would be 1680x1120 (700%), where you'd end up with both pillarboxing and letterboxing (top/bottom) in a 1920x1200 display resolution.

SNES emulation has the same problem. The console itself was 256x224, which does not scale up cleanly to a resolution such as 1920x1200 or 1920x1080, so you end up with black bars all around the image. If you were to scale it to the height of that 16:10 screen, you'd only have pillarboxing, but the pixels would be scaled by something like 535% and get that alternating pattern effect of distorted pixels. This looked gnarly back in the day when people had screens that were 800x600, but it's not so bad these days with much higher resolutions.

RM Specific:
This ties a little into what JS was saying about choosing "640 x 352 which is the closest to 640x360 (16:9) that still supports whole tiles." This is actually a great topic in and of itself, because choosing the resolution in tile-based games impacts whether you can display the character in the direct center of the screen (VX Ace) vs. off to the side (2k/3/XP) In 2k3, the screen of course was 320x240, and always showed 20x15 tiles when the character wasn't moving (offset by x pixels when moving). If the character (while still) was centered on the screen, you'd see half of one tile on the far right and half of another tile on the far left, so to combat this, the character was displayed off-center (in 1 of the 4 center tiles). VX chose the 544x416 resolution so that the player could be dead center on the screen and not cut off tiles along the edges. It still displayed at 640x480 resolution, resulting in pillarboxing and letterboxing because Enterbrain didn't want to scale up the image and end up with uneven pixel scaling.

640x352 could work in that it would have 4 pixels of letterboxing on the top and bottom (scaled up to whatever 16x9 display you have).

TL;DR:
The maximum resolution of the display is "full screen" as far as 2D games are concerned, but there are numerous considerations as to how you want your game to display, as outlined above. When you take out the output resolution as a factor, pixel scaling is no longer a concern, because it's not something you have control over.
wow this post
i wanna hug this post
so much useful information! Thank you!
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
5958
author=PepsiOtaku
SNES emulation has the same problem. The console itself was 256x224, which does not scale up cleanly to a resolution such as 1920x1200 or 1920x1080, so you end up with black bars all around the image.
As someone who does notice the inconsistent pixel scaling, black bars around the edges of the image are definitely my preferred way of handling the problem. If you use black bars of the right size you can always end up with properly and consistently upscaled pixels. You just get a slightly smaller screen.

Instead of using black bars, some games will solve the problem by using anti-aliasing to blend together the edges of the pixels instead of having inconsistent pixel scaling, which prevents the janky look but causes a blurry look instead. Arguably, the blurriness might actually be a better approximation of how the edges of the pixels blended together on an old CRT television, but it's not what attracts most people to pixel art these days. They're attracted to the cleanness of it.
the thing is, I for one am extremely bothered by pillarboxing (vertical, right?) though I don't mind letterboxing if its minor.
But pillarboxing really dampens my immersion. Now, I'll take a loong while to realize a game is using uneven pixels if the pixels themselves are >5x5. Now, anti-aliasing is extremely obvious and every single person will notice it and will be bothered by it, although apparently some people like you perhaps are less bothered by it than uneven pixel sizes.

I guess in the end it boils down to a matter of preference? Uh, I suppose that's not a very professional approach for it. Or perhaps allowing the user settings. I know that anti-aliasing ughs the heck outta me. So does pillarboxing.

An interesting thing I was thinking about is using the forced fullscreen on the new rm2k3 with purpotedly horizontally compressed graphics. Making a game where all pixels are 3:4, much like how commodore 64 used 2:1 pixels.

I actually tried it on 2k3 and it looked pretty neat, but it was an illustrated text adventure, meaning no rectangle tiles and stuff (which once again could be interesting because perspective :V )

anyhow I guess we're evading the topic but this is exciting to discuss XD
Frogge
I wanna marry ALL the boys!! And Donna is a meanc
18995
I think I'm literally the only person in the planet who likes smaller resolutions better. I find it appealing because you can just click out of the game easily and go do something else while it's running on the background and it almost never lags.
WIP
I'm not comfortable with any idea that can't be expressed in the form of men's jewelry
11363
The 550% vs 150% thing is a bit odd. You get more visual artifacts with 150% because it's easier to see the difference with so few pixels. But both upscaling sizes are not ideal.

Shovel Knight did a similar thing. It runs at 1080p in most places (except for 3DS, where it runs at native res). The game uses the 3DS's res as its internal (400x240) and upscales 4.5x for a 1080p resolution. The artifacting isn't quite as noticeable because its tougher to spot with that many pixels.

I still prefer scaling with whole numbers, though.
I find pillarboxing to be sometimes pretty distracting at first, and terrible if I'm watching movies. After awhile, though, the pillarboxes just sort of blend into the sides of my screen and I forget they are there, especially when I'm doing emulation. Towerfall runs in 4:3 and I somehow didn't even notice that there were black bars until my friend pointed it out to me. My laptop has the infernal 1366x768 max resolution, which makes useful scaling for a lot of resolutions impractical, so I get stuck with either windows or black bars everywhere. I still vastly prefer it over even a single pixel out of place.

From a creator's viewpoint, giving your audience more options is always a good idea. Letting them choose to play in a window, with boxing or with not-quite-right scaling is the best bet, and lots of indie games use this approach. Even in this topic (currently a single page) we have multiple preferences; imagine how many different opinions a larger audience would have?

Lots of us are pigeon-holed by RM's various (sometimes crazy) resolutions, so remember that the struggle is real the next time you see a video option you don't like in someone else's game.
Pages: first 12 next last