[GAME OVER] CHEESECAKE MAFIA

It's possible. I doubt mafia would do it. I'm actually a pretty safe kill for everyone. Confirming that Frogge is the bad chef doesn't really hurt scum (in fact, it helps them, which is why I really recommend him for a day 2 lynch. With his kill ability, Frogge is really useful for blackmail. A coinflip nightkill is better than none.). If I were mafia, I'd work on getting rid of town. Remember, mafia doesn't lose if Frogge and I survive. They'd be wasting just as much time as town if they tried to get rid of neutrals. So much better to use their powers on people they know are town. It's a better chance to hit the other roles.

getting the weirdest sense of deja vu

For the record I backed up Frogge, but I admit to minimal scumhunting with the idea that it'll be more effective once we're out of "necessary kills" because there will be less innocents around, one way or the other.

I think the plan is useless because we're effectively letting mafia decide 1) whether piano lives or not, and consequently 2) whether Frogge lives or not. Without knowing the scum gameplan I don't like leaving them that choice. I also don't think Frogge has a good plan on how he acquires his targets. We should really reconsider both parts of this.

As for the scum themselves (assuming piano is irritating untown as opposed to bold mafia), I'm looking at Liberty. Her reasoning just in general seems off to me. The nolynch thing is pointless to reason about, but like here for instance: https://rpgmaker.net/forums/topics/21148/?post=755853#post755853
I don't see anyone could still be against a day 1 lynch with piano and frogge jumping out, plus she seemed pretty aggressive on Cave. The way she words things makes me think she was trying to bait the seer into investigating piano. I also buy zero of her suggested reasons for why Frogge might be faking his claim. None of the things listed are worth a mafia exposing themself.

IF has also been shifty. I don't understand why he would ever think it was "dangerous" for Frogge to offer another vote on a kill (https://rpgmaker.net/forums/topics/21148/?post=755710#post755710). The same logic applies to the daykill, of course scum can influence it, but that's not the point. It seems contrived. He also tries to convince Liberty to jump on board for voting against Frogge because of it, which I don't like.

I have no read on Ratty. He's just acting strange, nothing I'd consider scummy. It's possible that he changed his scum-MO to avoid detection because he was scum last game but I don't think he's scummier looking than anybody else.

author=pianotm
It's possible. I doubt mafia would do it. I'm actually a pretty safe kill for everyone. Confirming that Frogge is the bad chef doesn't really hurt scum (in fact, it helps them, which is why I really recommend him for a day 2 lynch. With his kill ability, Frogge is really useful for blackmail. A coinflip nightkill is better than none.). If I were mafia, I'd work on getting rid of town. Remember, mafia doesn't lose if Frogge and I survive. They'd be wasting just as much time as town if they tried to get rid of neutrals. So much better to use their powers on people they know are town. It's a better chance to hit the other roles.

Not really. While mafia's primary goal is to get rid of town, there is no guarantee that a "serial killer" role will benefit them. Removing the serial killer/bad chef here will also eliminate any potential threat of mafia getting nightkilled and having their plans foiled due to bad luck. Knowingly keeping a role like that alive would be much too big of a risk, so I think they'd make it a priority to get rid of them right away.

I've been pretty busy today, I'll be sure to get caught up soon.

Yeah, if I were mafia, I'd definitely nightkill Frogge. This night phase. Town or independent, I would not want a non-scum with a nightkill running around.

@psy, you're now saying stuff I agree with. I had an itch about Libby earlier. She kind of fell off the radar, but that was because she suddenly changed approach. She feels really off. IF seems to be being extremely cautious, but that may be because he doesn't want to repeat previous mistakes. He feels like a player that's still finding his mafia legs, but that doesn't mean he isn't scum, and he's being just cautious enough that he might be. Remember a couple games back, LockeZ said that when he plays scum, he carefully weighs what he has to say on the thread before actually posting. I really get a strong sense of that from IF.

Frogge can be ignored by mafia up until the point he targets one of them though. When he's announcing his kills he's effectively telling the mafia whether they should be worried or not. Then he HAS to be killed by them

This is the best scenario town could reasonably hope for from Frogge. Another option is mafia kills frogge when he's targeting town, we interpret it as scenario one and we lynch incorrectly. >.<

He's just... not that helpful when you think about it.

lmao I also never said I would vote for Frogge, not in day 1
Others days, yeah probably. Because he has a chance to screw people over.

God damn dude youre all over the place

author=InfectionFiles
@psy- oh come on, man. that's a bit of a reach on me. yes we have a daykill (lynch) that can be influenced by scum. Having TWO of them is dangerous. it wouldn't even be an issue if Frogge didn't role claim and just targeted whoever he wanted.
Frogges chance at a kill can be influenced by mafia, whereas normally it wouldn't without his bold offer.

I feel like you would agree with me if you were town. Like you get what I'm saying, right?

No, I don't understand, sorry. How is an extra daykill dangerous purely by virtue of having two of them? You consider Frogge's judgment calls to be /safer/? Ignoring the fact that Frogge's never going to hit scum in the first place.

Do you or do you not think it's a good idea to kill Frogge today?

I said several games ago that I've decided I have zero fucks to give, and that hasn't changed. I'm genuinely not afraid of losing a mafia game. I've rooted for mafia in the past, but they are consistently winning these games lately. I want to see a town win for once. If they want to lylo me, they can try. I can't quote the PM but nothing stopping me from describing it. Then I'll be nightkilled for not giving into the lylo. During the day phase, I might even be able to pick out who scum is based on voting.

A good town should be willing to sacrifice himself to pull a town win. Why shouldn't a neutral be able to decide to do the same thing?