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EDITING DEFAULT SCRIPTS - ETHICAL?
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Sgt M
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CloseI've seen a lot of conflicting opinions on this subject for years now: whether or not its ethical to edit the default scripts in RPG Maker.
To give you a bit of a background about myself: I am not a coder, and my programming knowledge is extremely minimal. But it's just enough where I can read and make edits to existing scripts and write very basic lines of code. As a result, I sometimes make edits to the RTP scripts to achieve things that there might not be a script out there for, or the only script that exists is conflicting and/or does ten other things I don't need.
So I've never really seen a problem with doing it, and the consensus seems to be that it's "allowed, but frowned upon". What do you think? Is editing default scripts a no-no in your book?
To give you a bit of a background about myself: I am not a coder, and my programming knowledge is extremely minimal. But it's just enough where I can read and make edits to existing scripts and write very basic lines of code. As a result, I sometimes make edits to the RTP scripts to achieve things that there might not be a script out there for, or the only script that exists is conflicting and/or does ten other things I don't need.
So I've never really seen a problem with doing it, and the consensus seems to be that it's "allowed, but frowned upon". What do you think? Is editing default scripts a no-no in your book?
The notion that editing the original RM scripts is bad is far out there I can't wrap my head around it. My whole understanding of RPG Maker is a middling engine that's super easy to get into and use and being able to make small backend changes with big results was one of the key features of adding scripting in XP.
It'd be like getting mad somebody edited some RTP tiles to better fit a game's specific use-case.
It'd be like getting mad somebody edited some RTP tiles to better fit a game's specific use-case.
Can you please show me a single example of controversy about this because holy shit this is the nonnest of nonissues
In hindsight, making a forum thread with no documentation or proof and basing it on assumptions was a lousy idea.
Well, I'd say it's not a bad thing but I kinda get why people maaaaay get mad but it seems silly. Though you could just use a script to overwrite the default, but if it's easier to edit the default scripts, I think that's fine!
Edit: I couldn't phrase it well, but I meant basically what Nova said bellow :D
Edit: I couldn't phrase it well, but I meant basically what Nova said bellow :D
Red_Nova
Sir Redd of Novus: He who made Prayer of the Faithless that one time, and that was pretty dang rad! :D
9192
Just so I understand you clearly, are you asking if it's okay to edit default scripts or overwrite default script functions with your own scripts? If the latter, I agree with everyone that it's a silly question.
HOWEVER, if you're talking about the former, then I can understand it being frowned upon. Good programming practices include keeping your code modular, meaning that you want your script to rely on as few other scripts as possible. This makes it easy to track and squash bugs should they arise. Much like an MV plugin, scripts should ideally be as self-contained as possible, and taking out said script should MINIMALLY affect the functions of other scripts, if even that.
Editing default scripts goes against the modular practice. If you combine editing default scripts with overwriting other functions with your own, the margin of error increases exponentially, and you have more places to search in case you need to trace a bug.
The default scripts for RM may not be the most robust and bug-free ever, but they work. They function. If you run the program, it won't crash, at least not due to errors in code. Editing these scripts opens the potential for errors and crashing. So if this is what you're asking, then I'd suggest creating a new script to override previous functions instead of messing with the foundation itself.
HOWEVER, if you're talking about the former, then I can understand it being frowned upon. Good programming practices include keeping your code modular, meaning that you want your script to rely on as few other scripts as possible. This makes it easy to track and squash bugs should they arise. Much like an MV plugin, scripts should ideally be as self-contained as possible, and taking out said script should MINIMALLY affect the functions of other scripts, if even that.
Editing default scripts goes against the modular practice. If you combine editing default scripts with overwriting other functions with your own, the margin of error increases exponentially, and you have more places to search in case you need to trace a bug.
The default scripts for RM may not be the most robust and bug-free ever, but they work. They function. If you run the program, it won't crash, at least not due to errors in code. Editing these scripts opens the potential for errors and crashing. So if this is what you're asking, then I'd suggest creating a new script to override previous functions instead of messing with the foundation itself.
Uh, it's fine. They're part of the RTP, basically, and it's expected that you're going to edit them. There's not a thing wrong with it.
I typically copy-paste any and all functions I intend to edit into a separate code-block, sometimes going so far as to comment out lines that I'm not using, rather than deleting them. The general idea is that I would still have the original code to reference if when I get an error message.
Infinite
2103
I was gonna say what Red_Nova said. I think it's discouraged only by elite programmers who follow certain ethics or guidelines to write "good" or "clean" code, which makes it easier for other people to work on.
My personal opinion on "good" or "clean" code is : I don't care what it looks like under the hood, as long as it does what I want it to do. So do whatever you need to do to make your game play how you want it to play, even if you're the only one who care read the code when it's done.
but writing a separate script that references the original scripts by using things like "Alias" makes modifications more of a plug & play, rather than having to dig into each script and make said modifications.
My personal opinion on "good" or "clean" code is : I don't care what it looks like under the hood, as long as it does what I want it to do. So do whatever you need to do to make your game play how you want it to play, even if you're the only one who care read the code when it's done.
but writing a separate script that references the original scripts by using things like "Alias" makes modifications more of a plug & play, rather than having to dig into each script and make said modifications.
Red_Nova
Sir Redd of Novus: He who made Prayer of the Faithless that one time, and that was pretty dang rad! :D
9192
author=Liberty
Uh, it's fine. They're part of the RTP, basically, and it's expected that you're going to edit them. There's not a thing wrong with it.
Liberty, there's a slight difference between editing, say, a default sprite and editing a default script: one can cause the game to look strange, and another can cause the game to crash.
Sure, there's nothing inherently damaging about editing a default script, but it both creates unnecessary work for yourself and chips away at a reasonably stable foundation. You have nothing to lose (except a bunch of unnecessary headaches) by having a separate script that overwrites default functions.
To say nothing about working on a game in a team. Remember Though Dark, Liberty? Remember that conversation we had where you mentioned that you changed the encounter rate by editing the default function rather than overwriting it in its own script? Remember how I had no idea you did such a thing until you brought it up well after the game's release? There was nothing that indicated you made such an edit, so how could you have expected me to have known about it without scouring through the default script list just in case an change was made? It was possible that I could have wasted valuable time messing with the encounter rate in the map setting without so much as glancing at the script. All because a change was made to the foundation with no visible indicator.
This is what I'm talking about. This exact situation could happen even when you're developing on your own. Simply going in and editing the default script can work, yes, but it's just poor practice.
MarkusT
2
I have to make edits to the base scripts for MV, if i did not.. my characters would be stuck with the same frame rate for dashing as they do walking (BAD IDEA KADOKAWA!), and i would not have been able to get my players to dash and their animations speed up.
Same with making the windows appear WHERE i want.
I managed to do a LOT by modifying the base scripts in MV...
For one i have NO idea what i am doing when i make a plugin...second, i hate waiting on others to make plugins for things i might be the only one who wants to use.
I seriously don't consider it a bad thing to modify existing scripts.
The issue though is it might interfere with any plugins you might use later.
Same with making the windows appear WHERE i want.
I managed to do a LOT by modifying the base scripts in MV...
For one i have NO idea what i am doing when i make a plugin...second, i hate waiting on others to make plugins for things i might be the only one who wants to use.
I seriously don't consider it a bad thing to modify existing scripts.
The issue though is it might interfere with any plugins you might use later.
author=Red_Novaauthor=LibertyLiberty, there's a slight difference between editing, say, a default sprite and editing a default script: one can cause the game to look strange, and another can cause the game to crash.
Uh, it's fine. They're part of the RTP, basically, and it's expected that you're going to edit them. There's not a thing wrong with it.
Sure, there's nothing inherently damaging about editing a default script, but it both creates unnecessary work for yourself and chips away at a reasonably stable foundation. You have nothing to lose (except a bunch of unnecessary headaches) by having a separate script that overwrites default functions.
To say nothing about working on a game in a team. Remember Though Dark, Liberty? Remember that conversation we had where you mentioned that you changed the encounter rate by editing the default function rather than overwriting it in its own script? Remember how I had no idea you did such a thing until you brought it up well after the game's release? There was nothing that indicated you made such an edit, so how could you have expected me to have known about it without scouring through the default script list just in case an change was made? It was possible that I could have wasted valuable time messing with the encounter rate in the map setting without so much as glancing at the script. All because a change was made to the foundation with no visible indicator.
This is what I'm talking about. This exact situation could happen even when you're developing on your own. Simply going in and editing the default script can work, yes, but it's just poor practice.
I am of course assuming you know what you're doing by editing the script/s in question. I mean, you can slap a script in the editor and have your game crash on you too if you don't know wtf you're supposed to do with it. It's also easy to fix anyway - make new project, paste in new version of edited script. Easy.
(Also, you can create game crashes with graphical stuff as well. It's not just scripts that fuck you over in that regard. If you don't know what you're doing graphically, you can definitely make your game crash. XD )
That said, the title of the thread indicates that this is is a discussion on the ethics of it, not the intelligence of it. Ethically, it's perfectly fine.
author=SgtMettool
I've seen a lot of conflicting opinions on this subject for years now: whether or not its ethical to edit the default scripts in RPG Maker.
I don't know how something so wrong or woefully misinformed could become a hot-button issue.
I took this packet of ketchup from McDonalds for my french fries, but I'm on the ropes regarding the ethics of actually using it. I've heard a lot of dissenting ideas. Any help here?
addendum: Use the power of your own deductive reasoning to reach a conclusion on this matter and I think the answer you are looking for will be very clear
Red_Nova
Sir Redd of Novus: He who made Prayer of the Faithless that one time, and that was pretty dang rad! :D
9192
author=Liberty
I am of course assuming you know what you're doing by editing the script/s in question. I mean, you can slap a script in the editor and have your game crash on you too if you don't know wtf you're supposed to do with it. It's also easy to fix anyway - make new project, paste in new version of edited script. Easy.
True, true, but human error factors into just about any practice. One of the ideas of standard procedures is to bring the human error factor to a minimum.
(Also, you can create game crashes with graphical stuff as well. It's not just scripts that fuck you over in that regard. If you don't know what you're doing graphically, you can definitely make your game crash. XD )
u no wat i mean m8!
That said, the title of the thread indicates that this is is a discussion on the ethics of it, not the intelligence of it. Ethically, it's perfectly fine.
That's... true, yeah. Though I wonder if a topic about good practices will ever pop up in the future? This seemed a good a time as any to bring it up. You're right that there's nothing wrong with it ethically. It's just not a good idea from a practical standpoint.
One minor comment: some versions of RM have some scripts that are hidden because you're not supposed to edit them. For example, VX Ace explicitly asks users not to try to reverse engineer the encryption used in load_data() and save_data(). This is the only thing that I would consider an ethical issue.
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
5958
I am 500000% sure that whoever told you editing the default scripts was "bad" simply meant that it makes your edits harder to keep track of and thus creates more work in the long term despite seeming like a shortcut
One way to solve this is to put a comment like // 2 lines edited by LockeZ after each edit
One way to solve this is to put a comment like // 2 lines edited by LockeZ after each edit
I never even thought about this before, and have edited the default script a number of times. If they didn't want you to edit it then they would have hidden it and just have a materials section.
