KNEELING DURING THE ANTHEM?

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Corfaisus
"It's frustrating because - as much as Corf is otherwise an irredeemable person - his 2k/3 mapping is on point." ~ psy_wombats
7874
We've heard of the sports stars, celebrities, etc. doing this, but now there's Leah Tysse, breast cancer survivor. Some (most) are claiming she did this because her career is in the crapper, while others are actually wishing the worst on her and saying that she should get "more cancer". This might very well be the most divisive subject in America today, because it takes a time honored tradition and tries to poke a hole in it. Some people understand and respect it, others (some of which have fought for this country and want some damn recognition and honor) consider it extremely disrespectful and anti-American. What say you?

Because I'm one of those people who has a problem picking a side when there's so much at stake, I don't know who to side with. Where does the line from justice end and injustice begin? My grandfather served in Korea, he was a good man (flawed like rest of us) who unfortunately passed away in the summer of 2005. If he were alive today, I'd like to think he'd be like the Vietnam vets who burned the flag because it was just cloth and didn't represent what they were fighting for, but he saw the wages of war. He nearly got blown to kingdom come by a landmine while on duty, and saw the ones who took his place (he was riding behind them).

I want to honor those who've fought - who've died - but I know there's something more we could be doing. I'm torn.
SunflowerGames
The most beautiful user on RMN!
13323

It's interesting that kneeling would be a sign of protest, since kneeling in church or to a royal figure is consider respect to authority. I always thought the American national anthem was poorly written, since there's whole lines in it about being at war. It sort of sets a mentality that war is an okay part of American culture. (Interestingly enough the person who wrote it was captured on a British ship while the USA declared war on the remaining British colonies in North America, ie. The USA invaded Canada in 1812.)
I was under the assumption that the American military fought for freedom.
Sailerius
did someone say angels
3214
It's a free country. Your right to protest is exactly what so many have fought for. The only people who are really dishonoring that sacrifice are those who want to take that freedom away.
I think not standing up for a national anthem in protest is actually a pretty nice way of protesting. It's non-violent (no flag burning exactly) and peaceful while still sending a message.

Like. It's a start.
Hexatona
JESEUS MIMLLION SPOLERS
3702
Hmmm... I wonder how often peaceful protests accomplish their goal... I know my google research for today.
About as often as violent protests do probably (hardly ever)
Hexatona
JESEUS MIMLLION SPOLERS
3702
The things that gets me about the discussion between violent and non-violent protest is that the non-violent camp always tries to claim the civil rights movement.

Do you know how many riots there were? There's a reason 1967 was called The Long Hot Summer
slash
APATHY IS FOR COWARDS
4158
You can honor the hard work & hellish sacrifice soldiers do and still protest the war. A lot of people apparently didn't get this while protesting the Vietnam War (spitting on drafted soldiers, come on) but there's a difference.

Protesting a war shouldn't be considered an insult to the soldiers, it should be considered a rebuke of the people who lead the soldiers. Still, I understand it's not always easy to separate the two.


Thaaaaat said, kneeling during the anthem is kind of vague protest unless it's followed by a critical discussion. Saying "I don't like the government!" is a hollow statement on its own.
People need to chill with this. Every time a black man protests something in America, regardless of method, people be like "ok but i wish they'd protest a different way". Get out of here with that shit.

author=Sailerius
It's a free country. Your right to protest is exactly what so many have fought for. The only people who are really dishonoring that sacrifice are those who want to take that freedom away.

I agree with this, entirely. Especially as a veteran.
I don't get what this has to do with veterans or soldiers at all besides the usual peanut gallery throwing them, willing or not, to try and suppress people trying to bring social issues in the US to light. Kneeling for the anthem, burning the flag, all those kinds of protests are exactly what a society that considers freedom a key principle should allow.

e: im dum and forgot principal isn't principle
Hexatona
JESEUS MIMLLION SPOLERS
3702
Yes, precisely.

I have very little respect for countries that make criticizing leaders against the law in some way.
Yeah I don't see how soldiers and the national anthem go together. Like the place I hear the national anthem the most is during hockey games. (And maybe football games, during the world cup and stuff. But it's not like Finland is ever going to be in the world cup) So really it should be all about the hockey players that fight for our nation with their sticks and that rubber thing.

Though there's been some talk about changing the national anthem. If they did that I'd probably be upset and sit during it.
author=GRS
I don't get what this has to do with veterans or soldiers at all besides the usual peanut gallery throwing them, willing or not, to try and suppress people trying to bring social issues in the US to light.


Because we're always invoked when it comes to people doubting someone elses patriotism. "THINK ABOUT THE TROOPS WHO SERVED AND DIED FOR YOUR RIGHT TO KNEEL"

It backfired tremendously with the #VetsForKaepernick hashtag and people realized that we're not too hip on being used as a political chesspiece.
It's even for anything without a wiff of patriotism that it comes up too. iirc Foreign Aid is a big one: Lots of talking heads give lots of lip service and crocodile tears over the very real issue of homeless vets when that comes up in some of the circles I have an ear in.

Seeing veterans stand up for both themselves and Kapaernick is nice to see too. Thanks for sharing that
(here's an article I found on it for anybody else interested in reading a bit more on this)
SunflowerGames
The most beautiful user on RMN!
13323

I don't see a correlation between a political protest and soldiers who died in a war. (Even if it's a protest about going to war. Because while some wars were necessary to fight WW2, others were well avoided and had nothing to do with freedom IRAQ.)

I doubt athletes are thinking to themselves, "I really hate those dead soldiers." No they are pissed off at something about their country. They want to change it, but there's no mechanism for change outside of a Marxist revolution.
author=kory
They want to change it, but there's no mechanism for change outside of a Marxist revolution.

lol nah that's dumb talk. 0 to 100 real quick

I'd never say that revolution (of any kind) is always unnecessary, after all, it's what created the USA in the first place, and the French Revolution fundamentally changed their society (if not Western Europe as a whole) forever.

But things haven't gotten that bad yet. It's intellectually lazy to say that a full scale revolution is necessary to bring about change when the most that the average person does (including almost every single person who is reading this topic) to even attempt change is a big fat fucking nothing. Half of people don't even vote in their local elections, and then they collectively have the nerve to complain about potholes in the road.

SunflowerGames
The most beautiful user on RMN!
13323

My question to you is was the USA revolution necessary? That's a debatable question because Canada was sort of just given its freedom over time. (Though some would argue that Canada was given its freedom to avoid a revolution.) What sort of place would the USA be if it had a British parliament instead of the one it has now?

I would vote if I was aloud to, but alas I can only vote in Canadian elections (even though I have strong opinions about American and Taiwanese politics.)
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