HOW DO YOU DESIGN YOUR DUNGEONS?

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In a lot of games dungeons are simply random encounter filled areas with very little mechanical differentiation or they lack any puzzles to make them more than just another cave or ancient tower of evil.

So I'm curious what goes through your guys's heads when you design your dungeons. Do you try to add some sort of mechanical spin to make the player think differently? Do you pull a Final Fantasy 6 and have split parties? What is your design process for dungeons?
For my main game, I kind of try to stick to this formulae:

Think of a theme for the dungeon and design enemies around that.

With maps, I like to have a fairly obvious main path to follow, that may split up here and there, with most of the optional side paths being smaller. There must also be at least a few hidden passages that are harder to spot if you're not looking for them. For side paths, if possible, there should be made shortcuts back to the main path, to minimise backtracking.

Along the main path, there will be a few story-related events or short cutscenes.
The side paths will have mostly generic loot, while secret passages have unique loot. There will be one optional puzzle or out-of-combat challenge that is related to the theme of the dungeon, followed by a mini-boss that also rewards unique loot.

The boss always has a connection to the story or the world, so it's not just some random thing waiting in the depths of the dungeon.
Kloe
I lost my arms in a tragic chibi accident
2236
Many girls, many chain- oh you mean the RPG type.

I usually start with a location, a castle, a volcano, and work the theme of of that. Then foes which fit the area and difficulty and mechanics of the area.

Then I add lots of chests in places, before making it farily difficult to get them, then add puzzles, then Tada! I have a dungeon! Then I test and see if I wanna change or add something.
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
5958
I start with a boring dungeon, and then I add a segment where you surf on the back of a shark while having a swordfight with another shark that's surfing on the back of a crocodile while escaping from a tidal wave.
I start with the visual design. Usually have a few ideas in my head, then play around in RM to figure out what's most feasible and what kind of tiles I'll need to make. The goal here is to have at least 2 visual themes to make things slightly more interesting to look at. I guess music goes with this step too as it can influence the feel just as much as the look.

Then I settle on 1 or 2 core puzzle mechanics, followed by the theme for the enemy design, and a boss that builds on the normal encounters. Bonus points if the theme behind the puzzle mechanics works its way into the boss.

For the layout, I usually structure the whole thing as one big puzzle that when solved reveals the boss room near the entrance. Most of my dungeons have the entrance/exit as the same place, so finishing the dungeon next to the entrance is huge.
author=Kloe
Many girls, many chain- oh you mean the RPG type.


Oh good I am not the only one thinking the same thing...I mean... >.>

So, about those RPG Dungeons...

When I make a dungeon I tend not to think too much into it. I just start with a focal point say the entrance or maybe a cool landmark. (i.e if it is a demonic temple I may start with the main chamber) then I jsut let the rooms go from there. One long hallway here...one there. Add a room here; room there. Make some cool four-way hallway. Throw in some extras and boom. Dungeon!
First I come up with a theme for the dungeon (well, usually). I try to go for two things so say Ice Cave or Floating Mountain or Silver mine Chasm. I then figure if I want it to be structured or more random - so for a mine I'd have structured areas, where-as for a mountain it'd be more randomised roads.

By structured I mean, squared away with rooms vs rambling paths.

Sometimes I'll draw a map out (especially for structured ones) that show connected rooms.



From there I make the different rooms/areas. Sometimes I'll just free-form it - map as I go. Other times I'll have plans for specific areas (one area might need a small hut, so I'll make that first and then map the rest of the area around it).
I usually have a basic outline of the dungeon in my head. Then I try to fit a complex maze-like structure into that design. Often I find that there are too many possibilities left so I try to limit myself by adding very specific rules to the dungeon.
Marrend
Guardian of the Description Thread
21781
Very badly.


In more seriousness, I suppose that I have some vague idea of what kind of dungeons I want to make (which may include a theme, a puzzle idea, or what-have-you), and just play around with things in the map editor. Of course, I sometimes don't necessarily think about dungeon design until the story/plot calls for a dungeon to happen, it, so...
unity
You're magical to me.
12540
I start by asking what purpose does the dungeon serve. Sure, it may be holding an item needed to advance the plot or it may just be connecting two other areas, but, aside from that, there are a lot of other purposes dungeons can serve, both from the story perspective to the gameplay perspective.

First, things for the game's narrative. Is there a story purpose for this cave? Are there rooms that the characters will comment on, or scenes that take place when the party reaches certain rooms? Make note of any that are needed.

Then I think about what the dungeon itself means in a general way: How can I design this to tell the player something about the location. This can be as simple as "This is a lava-filled volcano dungeon, so lots of magma," though it can be more fun (to me at least XD) to get more complex. "This is a bandits hideout, with cells, rooms for their various operations, a meeting room, and perhaps a leaders' room" isn't a super complicated idea, but you can do a lot with that, design-wise.

Then, if the dungeon's layout is very complex, I may draw it up on paper. Otherwise, I generally open the editor and get to work on it from there. At this point, enemies and items are easier, too, because you can ask yourself "Given the questions I asked myself earlier about this place, what sort of items/monsters make sense?" Of course, they don't all have to be connected, but it can make the dungeon more interesting and fun.
Usually I'll start off by brainstorming what the dungeon I need is, its realistic function, general size, how it fits into the world, etc. Writing down notes I use notepad or abiword for sketching/layout use gimp and/or rm.

For example, if I was making a one floor warehouse dungeon the general size would be a rectangle(or any boxy shape, it just works better for the storage of goods). There would be few if any partitions, most warehouses don't have 30+ rooms with snaking hallways. To make it more interesting just add in crates, boxes, shelves, debris, etc. that the player has to move around. 'Why can't I just jump over the crate of powdered orange juice?!', yells the player. The same reason why you can't jump over a 1 foot fence or squeeze through a window. *magical rainbows on* Game design~! *magical rainbows off*

Enemy encounters are tied to dungeon design and I have a similar approach, put enemies that fit in with the story, atmosphere, and what would logically be there. Unless there is a demon infestation, don't stick a Cancerous Pit Lord in your harem dungeon. He might look...cool? and all badass, but whats he doing surrounded by scantily clad maidens of perhaps dubious intent? If you are making a japanese mythos game staring a magical ninja the inclusion of Thor, Odin's Son would be a bit of a shock. (Could totally work if it was a comedy/slapstick...Hmmm)
author=Delsin7
Unless there is a demon infestation, don't stick a Cancerous Pit Lord in your harem dungeon.


Or maybe the Pit Lord owns that dungeon. ;D
author=BlackWolf1992
author=Delsin7
Unless there is a demon infestation, don't stick a Cancerous Pit Lord in your harem dungeon.
Or maybe the Pit Lord owns that dungeon. ;D


Hmm, a game where you purchase/run 'business' establishments in a fantasy setting. Maybe you could buy said dungeon from the Pit Lord. Wonder what the going rate on it would be.
author=Delsin7
author=BlackWolf1992
author=Delsin7
Unless there is a demon infestation, don't stick a Cancerous Pit Lord in your harem dungeon.
Or maybe the Pit Lord owns that dungeon. ;D
Hmm, a game where you purchase/run 'business' establishments in a fantasy setting. Maybe you could buy said dungeon from the Pit Lord. Wonder what the going rate on it would be.


No idea, but I would so buy it!
author=Shadowsong
In a lot of games dungeons are simply random encounter filled areas with very little mechanical differentiation or they lack any puzzles to make them more than just another cave or ancient tower of evil.


I've since played a few games on this site and, unfortunately, this is usually what I got. Most of the time it's a cave/forest/temple arranged like a random maze with very few things to do other than get into randomly frequent encounters. Then at the end it's probably a single room that's practically screaming "BOSS HERE" and viola.

I saw in an article here somewhere that dungeons, in addition to themes and monster types, should have a 'gimmick'. Could be as simple as 'Boulder cave' filled with boulder pushing puzzles and what not, but probably something more interesting than that. You know. Something to make it stand out from your average random encounter maze. Anything except that.
author=Liberty
First I come up with a theme for the dungeon (well, usually). I try to go for two things so say Ice Cave or Floating Mountain or Silver mine Chasm. I then figure if I want it to be structured or more random - so for a mine


Nice! I liked your method! Could you please elaborate on that first picture where you show the general layout of the map using RM assets, like what every icon means? Also, could you show us a picture of the final product?
author=gsp1995
author=Liberty
First I come up with a theme for the dungeon (well, usually). I try to go for two things so say Ice Cave or Floating Mountain or Silver mine Chasm. I then figure if I want it to be structured or more random - so for a mine
Nice! I liked your method! Could you please elaborate on that first picture where you show the general layout of the map using RM assets, like what every icon means? Also, could you show us a picture of the final product?


I am guessing completely but:

Crystal = Save point
Book = Maybe and event or cutscene?
Bones = Battles or encounters possibly?

The others I am not sure but puzzle rooms or some sort?
Oh, sure.


So basically for this one:
Cross = Boss
Book = Save/Heal
Gems = Treasure room
Skull = Battle Room
Crystal = Secret
Bed = Inn
Light = Exit/Entrance

This game is a bit different to usual ones as it's more like a Visual Novel cross Point and Click RPG. Room interaction is like this:

Where you can explore by highlighting checkable items with the square and interacting with them. Monster rooms would throw you into a battle as soon as you explore (you can't check out the room before you clear it of enemies).

Here's what a typical room in that dungeon looks like, without the events:



Another example is here:

A much larger dungeon. The brown dots are teleports between the dungeon areas. The green dots are exits into the non-dungeon areas (no enemies). The squared water shows water teleports, bones are planned enemy encounters (they're the more important enemies that are either bosses, mini-bosses or story-necessary), the stumps are treasures that are important (anything that's equipment, story-related or otherwise interesting - item chests, money and the like don't count). The stairs are hidden areas.


This is the map for the bottom-left room of the image above. Pink dots are non-dungeon exits. Blue dots are dungeon room teleports. Green dots are water teleports. Yellow dots are treasure and red dots are basic enemies.



I should probably add that for smaller dungeons I tend to just wing it. I try to have a general idea in mind for what I want but mostly I just map as I go. Actually, I think my mapping tutorials give a generally good idea of how I approach the mapping of my dungeons - path planning first, then building up layer by layer.
Eh, I was close. xD Love the maps though Libby.
Decky
I'm a dog pirate
19645
I liken it to flinging paint against a wall and hope it sticks without spraying in my face too much.

There has to be a water puzzle in there somewhere by default.
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