2017 PSA: ONLINE SAFETY

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Solitayre
Circumstance penalty for being the bard.
18257
Hello RMNers,

Recently, we learned of an incident where a user on RMN attempted to 'dox' another user with the intention of stirring up trouble for them. If you are unfamiliar with what 'doxxing' is, this is to publish personal information about someone, such as their real name, social media presence, or perhaps even address or place of employment, usually with the intention of that person being harassed or to cause problems with their personal life. In extreme cases this can result in threats to the individual's safety.

Attempting to organize campaigns of harassment against our users is a serious offense and won't be tolerated. The person who instigated this attack has been banned and will not be coming back.

Obviously, everyone is responsible for keeping their own personal information safe on the internet and everyone should take care as to how any information they publicize can be traced back to them offline. However, this is a creative community. People publish their work here, often under their real name or with contact information so that players can share their thoughts on their projects. We have no wish to discourage this, so with that in mind, as a community we have a responsibility to help keep our users safe.

How much information you choose to reveal about yourself online is a personal choice. We want users to be aware of what they are posting and how it could potentially be used against them. Everyone has different ideas of what best practices people should use to protect themselves and our community. Feel free to discuss them here. But one thing is clear; attempts to weaponize another user's personal information are a serious form of harassment and anyone engaging in such behavior shouldn't expect any sympathy from our staff. As always, harassment will not be tolerated on RMN. Please report any incidents to one of our Moderators.

We thank you as always for helping us build a better community. Let's all have a safe and productive 2017.

Sincerely,

The RMN Staff
^
A billioneded.

Doxxing, stalking, harassment of any kind both on or off the site, is horrible and while there's not much we can do off-site, on-site we can offer some kind of protection (as long as proof is brought to bear, of course).

The staff wish to protect our members and their privacy, and we wish to make sure that everyone feels safe here, or as safe as is possible on a forum where many different people interact. The most important step in doing that is to let us know if you are being harassed - don't just sweep it under the rug and pretend it isn't happening.

We have had users who have done so in the past, trying to ignore monstrous interactions with other members (even though said interactions did not occur on the site). Reporting it to the staff allows us to make sure that not only you, but others who may fall under their radar of harassment and who may not be as capable of dealing with such things, are protected.

Please give us your confidence in that regard and we will do our best to support you, and protect you, as well as we are able. Look out for each other, and yourselves.
<3
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
5958
The idea that revealing someone's personal information could somehow negatively affect them on a website like this is absolutely comical. This isn't a hookup site for married people to cheat on their spouses, or a place to buy illegal drugs. This is a game development site where people are trying to put their name out there and become famous for what they're creating. The worst possible scenario is that someone sends you free samples of KY jelly as a prank, or invites Jehova's Witnesses to visit you by claiming you're their wayward son who has fallen from the faith. The infinitely more likely scenario is that future employers have an easier time finding your software development projects on RMN, and maybe someone buys you a pizza.
Craze
why would i heal when i could equip a morningstar
15150
i would love some ky jelly samples
And yet, one of our members' information linked back to their home information and put them and the people living with them in danger, because another member decided they wanted to use /chan/ rooms to hurt others after they had a small argument over something here.


We just don't want our members being hurt because they choose to use real information here. They shouldn't be - such a thing should never have happened and we were all not only in shock, but horrified over it. We just want our members to be aware and to know that they can talk to us about such things - that we take it seriously.

We aren't saying not to use your name or feel free to do so, but to be aware of what the worst outcome is and how to look after yourselves if such a thing (no matter how slim a chance it is) occurs.
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
5958
I don't see how it could possibly put them in danger. It's not an attack. That's like saying that having a conversation with someone is an attack. The whole idea of doxxing only applies to people who've been revealed doing awful or illegal things. Government spies and drug dealers and people participating in scandals. It doesn't apply to this website.

The idea that revealing someone's personal info could potentially be a punishable offense makes no sense to me. It's not a bad thing to do in any way. There's no potential harm that could possibly come from it.
LockeZ, I think you sorely underestimate the workings of organized online harassment groups, or you are alarmingly under-informed of their existence. If some sort of controversy pops up about you under your nose, whether you expect it to or not, doxxing is a very real threat and a very scary thing.
Tell that to the person who got rape and murder threats from faceless strangers, over an argument they had here, because their information was plastered all over a /chan/ board. Even if nothing comes from it, there is very good reason to fear when people who have made such threats have your home address. Especially when the person who gave that information to them made themselves out to be the victim and deliberately tried to rally people to strike out at them in that kind of way.


There are people out there who are boldened by the idea of being anonymous and striking out at others 'for just cause', even though that supposed 'just cause' is a silly argument fight. Especially if the person directing them spouts specific hate-speech and lies about their argument in order to inflame specific egos towards that kind of thing.
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
5958
If a user is harassing another user, then that's bad, sure. But then the thing they should get punished for is just harassment. It's no different from any other harassment. The exact same result could come from posting their RMN username on 4chan.
pianotm
The TM is for Totally Magical.
32347
So, LockeZ, you're saying that if somebody puts your home address on Facebook, nobody could show up at your door with an AK-47 and kill whoever answered the bell? You'll forgive me if I'm not willing to test your theory.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doxing#Notable_examples
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
5958
People could show up at my house with an AK-47 anyway! My address is in the phone book. Everyone's address is in the phone book. It's also in my church directory, on my resume, in the company directory at my job, on the shipping label of everything I've ever purchased, and in the contact info page on my website. My neighbors all know who I am. It's not a secret.

Surprisingly, if someone shows up at your door to kill you, it turns out that the bad part of that is killing you, not showing up at your door.
author=LockeZ
If a user is harassing another user, then that's bad, sure. But then the thing they should get punished for is just harassment. It's no different from any other harassment. The exact same result could come from posting their RMN username on 4chan.

Which is what they did (as well as links to their account page here), but they then deliberately took what they could find from the username, followed threads, did research, found their home and posted -that- on the chan board as well. And photographs. And email and phone and facebook pages. All manner of information.

The harasser in question was dealt with, of course, but we want to make people aware that this is something that can be done, despite how rare a chance it is to actually happen, and to think about it and practice safe internet usage.

We're not wanting people to quail and be afraid to share - definitely not! But we want people to be careful and understand how to take care of themselves. Also, to understand that we do take this kind of thing seriously, and that we won't stand for such behaviour from our users, either.

That's why we want this discussion - so people can talk about what they can do if harassed, and share information about such a serious thing.


I've been in the harassed seat before - it's not a comfortable place. There's been a few times in the past that I was stalked online from posts I've made in these forums - some of them from when I was a normal member, some from dealing with bad behaviour here as a moderator. One such person still harasses me from time to time even after a year - in fact, they showed up to a stream I did two nights ago.

I'm not afraid of that person, or any of the others (mainly because being in Australia adds a barrier of sorts), but it always shocks me any time I get a message from someone from here, making threats about such things. The first time I was terrified. Horrified. I didn't let it stop me from posting here, though (if my post count is anything to go by).

Even if nothing comes from such a thing, even if realistically you -know- the chance of someone showing up on your doorstep to rape or kill you is incredibly small, it still doesn't stop you feeling unsafe in your own home. No one should feel that way because they had a small argument on an internet forum.
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
5958
Funny how that Wikipedia link to a list of "notable examples" doesn't have even a single example of anything bad happening as a result of doxxing. All it has is examples of it being used as a tool in activism and criminal investigations.

If someone is harassing you, I think the best possible thing you can do is give them your personal contact info, because as soon as they use that to harass you, you have their contact info too, which means the police can get involved. It removes the anonymity from the equation, which is exactly what you want if they're doing something bad and you're not.
pianotm
The TM is for Totally Magical.
32347
It's not just bad people that get doxxed. People get doxxed for being better than other people at MMORPG's. Have you ever heard of swatting? Something that can get you, and the police officers involved, killed? That's a form of doxxing. This is swatting:

Idiot25188275: "That fucking LockeZ! The asshole always wins! I'm sick always fucking losing to him. I'm done with this shit!" (Picks up phone) (Scared voice) "Umm, hi, umm...FBI? Yeah, I was playing Another DumbAss Online Game and username LockeZ threatened in the chat to kill me and my family. He said he was going to bomb my house. I usually just brush it off but he gave my home address in chat! Please, I'd like to remain anonymous. I'm afraid he'll find me!"

FBI: "Thank you for your report, Sir. We take matters like this very seriously." (Hangs up)(Calls Stupid Studios) "This is the FBI. Yes, we need to run search of your chat database."

Stupid HR Rep: "I'm so sorry. We don't archive chat logs."

FBI: "Well, then, we need LockeZ's user information."

Stupid HR Rep: "Of course, sir!"

24 hours later.

SWAT team breaks your windows while you're playing Final Fantasy LCVII: The Last Fucking Sequel, We Swear! and through flash and tear gas grenades into your living room. Your Sechuan chicken flies across the room as men who look very much like stormtroopers file in and point M1-16s at you.
Red_Nova
Sir Redd of Novus: He who made Prayer of the Faithless that one time, and that was pretty dang rad! :D
9192
Right. Nothing can possibly happen if your personal info gets out.


You would never be swatted, calling a police station pretending to be you acting violent in order to get a SWAT team to barge in and arrest you.

Your immediate family would never be threatened at all.

You would never be forced out of your home from all the threats.

You would never be driven to or suicide over the constant harassment.

You would never be falsely accused of crimes you didn't commit and had your personal info thrown at a swarm of angry internet anons.


Other than that? Nah. It's perfectly harmless and there is literally no downside to having this info put online against your will.

Make whatever arguments about what "could" happen that you want, but anyone who tries to pull this stunt on RMN will get launched out of here faster than they can finish their Doritos bag, and no amount of crying about "muh appeal to reason" will ever bring them back. Full stop. End of negotiations. Not up for debate.

By the way, every scenario I listed above has happened. Multiple times. All thanks to doxxing.
NeverSilent
Got any Dexreth amulets?
6280
LockeZ, I think the point you're misunderstanding is that the problem isn't the act of sharing more or less publicly known personal information about someone. The bad part of it is how, where and with what intent that information is spread.

It's unlikely anybody is going to come after you because someone told them you're a member of a website about creating video games, that's true. But if personal information is shared combined with aggressive remarks, negative depictions or even direct appeals to harm this person, things get ugly really fast. Especially so if this information is shared on websites that house many people with extreme opinions and the willingness to hurt others over them. It's a practice comparable to riling up a mob or setting up a witch hunt. And even if it never results in physical violence, just knowing that there are people out there who want to make your life miserable just because someone told them you should be their target is pretty horrible.


Either way, I'm disgusted by the fact this happened, and I fully support the staff's decision to take action against it. Whoever was the victim of this kind of harrassment, please don't let it bring you down!
Protecting yourself online is quite important. There are plenty of wankers out there who hurt people simply because they can. Alas, they will most likely not get the help they need with their own issues before they become an issue for someone else.

If we are hurt by someone it is a natural reaction to want to lash out. Hurt them like they hurt us, maybe more. However we must look at the consequences of our actions. We might think that doxing someone is a bit of a laugh, they get some hate mail, nothing too serious. But then someone does something vile. Even though we did not do the vile deed ourselves, we created the environment for it to happen.

Thus I feel that if we are hurt or angered by someone we should take a step back from the computer and think. Think of the consequences of our actions, how to deal with the person/situation to try and defuse it, and if in a moderated forum contact a mod. This falls under seeking advice.

Seeking advice or help is not easy for a lot of people. I and quite a few people are shy around strangers. The reasons for this are /very/ numerous and individualized. Talking abut this stuff with friends can be difficult as we may think they'll think less of us for it. Talking with people online can help, but we have to remember about safety or we run the risk of making it a cycle. That said, talking to mods/people on a smaller forum like this one could be very beneficial. There's lots of good people here so if you need help or someone to talk to, just send a message or even a vague topic post.

Hope everyone has a good day~

*Lacey serious mode off*
author=LockeZ
If someone is harassing you, I think the best possible thing you can do is give them your personal contact info, because as soon as they use that to harass you, you have their contact info too

Um, it's not that straightforward. They can always call from an unknown number. There's also the thing about foreigners from distant lands calling you.
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
5958
Thousands of unhinged strangers from school and work and the supermarket already have your contact info. Doxxing didn't make those situations possible. They were always possible.
This is a pretty silly thing to argue about. Harassing and doxxing are bad. Don't do it.
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