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HOBBY TO PROFESSION, LOOKING FOR SUCCESS STORIES
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KhaliCanvas Studios
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CloseHello! :)
I would like to know of sources where I can read or see videos of how a hobbyist game developers turned into commercially successful game developers.
Looking for recent,
Recent stories
Starts from there very first game preferably
Discusses the struggles, lessons and even the luck involved
As an undergrad student from Bangladesh, who has been making games and dreaming about making a career out of it for over 7 years, I am really confused about what to do exactly do next. I do not have the access to the resources that people often talk about such as game developer conferences. So I am just looking for some less heard of stories, something closer to home, as I too had started with the RPGMaker engine ;)
Thank you
I would like to know of sources where I can read or see videos of how a hobbyist game developers turned into commercially successful game developers.
Looking for recent,
Recent stories
Starts from there very first game preferably
Discusses the struggles, lessons and even the luck involved
As an undergrad student from Bangladesh, who has been making games and dreaming about making a career out of it for over 7 years, I am really confused about what to do exactly do next. I do not have the access to the resources that people often talk about such as game developer conferences. So I am just looking for some less heard of stories, something closer to home, as I too had started with the RPGMaker engine ;)
Thank you
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
5958
I'm actually Notch
I am hesitant to believe you. :3 I mean. I reviewed Wild Thunder for your years ago. Benefit of a doubt.
Dyhalto
7536
I have a hard time believing any of the "success stories" do more than eke by.
Once in awhile, you'll get a surprise hit like Undertale or To The Moon, but if you like the odds of having the right stuff at the right time, then you should be playing the lottery regularly. Otherwise, what are you doing with yourself? Shouldn't you be aspiring to provide a reasonably comfortable living for yourself and your family? Don't you owe it to yourself not to be the 2010s equivalent of a struggling musician; always one gig away from hitting it big?
Seriously, when you see an entire industry catering to designers, you should be asking yourself where the money is really being made.
Once in awhile, you'll get a surprise hit like Undertale or To The Moon, but if you like the odds of having the right stuff at the right time, then you should be playing the lottery regularly. Otherwise, what are you doing with yourself? Shouldn't you be aspiring to provide a reasonably comfortable living for yourself and your family? Don't you owe it to yourself not to be the 2010s equivalent of a struggling musician; always one gig away from hitting it big?
Seriously, when you see an entire industry catering to designers, you should be asking yourself where the money is really being made.
All I ever wanted to do was make video games. Do not want to be a millionaire, but financial security is important to me.
This is the only reason I am, Majoring in Computer Science & Minoring in Marketing against parents, family and society who told me not to. I was a very bad student in school and not much else. But now, have a little above average CGPA, won and participated in various related contests and currently working on my first research paper.
My aspiration turned my world upside down but in a good way. I understand why and what you are advising. But letting go now would invalidate the last five years of my life and put me in the same shoes as all of my school friends, who had chosen security over passion and now are miserable, not to mention a loss of identity and a mandatory 'soul' searching.
I would like to keep this discussion going. Might help in ways we cannot predict. :)
This is the only reason I am, Majoring in Computer Science & Minoring in Marketing against parents, family and society who told me not to. I was a very bad student in school and not much else. But now, have a little above average CGPA, won and participated in various related contests and currently working on my first research paper.
My aspiration turned my world upside down but in a good way. I understand why and what you are advising. But letting go now would invalidate the last five years of my life and put me in the same shoes as all of my school friends, who had chosen security over passion and now are miserable, not to mention a loss of identity and a mandatory 'soul' searching.
I would like to keep this discussion going. Might help in ways we cannot predict. :)
Do not limit yourself to one thing. Don't fixate on game development, saying "this is the only thing I'm going to do in life because I spent the last five years working towards it."
Industries rise and fall. And indie game development is a "gold rush" industry that has become so astonishingly over-saturated that I wouldn't quit my day job for it. But it honestly doesn't matter if we're talking about game development, or accounting, or anything else for that matter; being flexible and multi-faceted in what kind of work you do is going to help you more than you know. Because if you don't have something to fall back on, especially in a high-risk and industry like game development, you're putting yourself at serious risk.
Industries rise and fall. And indie game development is a "gold rush" industry that has become so astonishingly over-saturated that I wouldn't quit my day job for it. But it honestly doesn't matter if we're talking about game development, or accounting, or anything else for that matter; being flexible and multi-faceted in what kind of work you do is going to help you more than you know. Because if you don't have something to fall back on, especially in a high-risk and industry like game development, you're putting yourself at serious risk.
Blind
2262
Odds are, you may never make six figures from an RPGMaker project (or even a broader indie game). XD I'd figure it's possible these days, however, to make enough income to at least quit your "day job" and continue on what you're doing. That's the aim for a lot of us.
For the HUGE success stories you're probably talking about (Undertale, Stardew Valley, Shovel Knight), I'm sure there are plenty of interviews and articles out there you could read through. Many of those guys came from humble beginnings, too.
Closer to home, Shadows of Adam has been a relative hit; Ara Fell was one of the first RPGMaker 2003 to do well on Steam; Kingdom of Dump looks poised to do quite well also.
For the HUGE success stories you're probably talking about (Undertale, Stardew Valley, Shovel Knight), I'm sure there are plenty of interviews and articles out there you could read through. Many of those guys came from humble beginnings, too.
Closer to home, Shadows of Adam has been a relative hit; Ara Fell was one of the first RPGMaker 2003 to do well on Steam; Kingdom of Dump looks poised to do quite well also.
To SgtMEttool. I understand. I will try to balance things so that I can forever remain flexible, fall back and do something else to pay the bills, and work on games when times are good.
To Blindmind. Thank you.
To Blindmind. Thank you.
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
5958
I would settle for knowing how to make four figures.
dethmetal
990
I made a topic about RPG Maker games who later went on to develop games professionally; it's sort of relevant so check it out.
https://rpgmaker.net/forums/topics/22061/
https://rpgmaker.net/forums/topics/22061/
author=LockeZWish someone tought me how to make four figures by making games XD
I would settle for knowing how to make four figures.
author=dethmetalThank you
I made a topic about RPG Maker games who later went on to develop games professionally; it's sort of relevant so check it out.
https://rpgmaker.net/forums/topics/22061/
psy_wombats
13315
My perspective might be a little different but here's my take:
Do you like making games? Not the design big-picture parts but like the actual day to day grind of coding, or cranking out art, or designing UI for hours etc. If so: great. There's someone out there willing to pay you to do it professionally if you're good enough. You'll get paid and probably get health insurance and whatever, but you'll have pretty much zero creative control.
You actually want to make decisions about the game you're working on? Cool. I definitely know people who've started financially successful game development companies. All of them make mobile games. Two guys moved to Thailand for lower cost of living. Another guy makes farmville clones. In college I interned for a place that cranked out movie tie-in shovelware or slots sort of stuff, and that was actually really fun. Those guys all make money designing games top to bottom and they do pretty well for themselves, they just have to make games that are specifically designed to support themselves first, artistically express themselves etc second.
Wait, you want to work on creatively interesting stuff that /you'd/ want to play, with creative control? Like Dyhalto said, yeah, doable, but usually just eking by though. The people you see here even with commercial projects usually aren't doing only their own game for a living. Sometimes it's patreon or sidejobs and contracting work, or maybe a kickstarter to take a hiatus from "real" work. Both the kickstart success guys I know had more of a "fund me to take a year hiatus off to do game dev full time," not really a career thing. No one gets paid megabucks to sit in a basement and work on their passion project -- that's why they're passion projects.
In conclusion, pick two of 1) creative control, 2) artistically interesting, or 3) steady wellpaying work. If you're looking for all three, that probably isn't realistic. I think you can count any one of those ^ three options as "successful," it just depends what you're looking for. Personally I picked up coding partially through RM, enough to get a pretty good job making phone games for other people. Stuff I'm creatively invested in I'd rather keep as a hobby.
Do you like making games? Not the design big-picture parts but like the actual day to day grind of coding, or cranking out art, or designing UI for hours etc. If so: great. There's someone out there willing to pay you to do it professionally if you're good enough. You'll get paid and probably get health insurance and whatever, but you'll have pretty much zero creative control.
You actually want to make decisions about the game you're working on? Cool. I definitely know people who've started financially successful game development companies. All of them make mobile games. Two guys moved to Thailand for lower cost of living. Another guy makes farmville clones. In college I interned for a place that cranked out movie tie-in shovelware or slots sort of stuff, and that was actually really fun. Those guys all make money designing games top to bottom and they do pretty well for themselves, they just have to make games that are specifically designed to support themselves first, artistically express themselves etc second.
Wait, you want to work on creatively interesting stuff that /you'd/ want to play, with creative control? Like Dyhalto said, yeah, doable, but usually just eking by though. The people you see here even with commercial projects usually aren't doing only their own game for a living. Sometimes it's patreon or sidejobs and contracting work, or maybe a kickstarter to take a hiatus from "real" work. Both the kickstart success guys I know had more of a "fund me to take a year hiatus off to do game dev full time," not really a career thing. No one gets paid megabucks to sit in a basement and work on their passion project -- that's why they're passion projects.
In conclusion, pick two of 1) creative control, 2) artistically interesting, or 3) steady wellpaying work. If you're looking for all three, that probably isn't realistic. I think you can count any one of those ^ three options as "successful," it just depends what you're looking for. Personally I picked up coding partially through RM, enough to get a pretty good job making phone games for other people. Stuff I'm creatively invested in I'd rather keep as a hobby.
Lots to think about :/ But I guess I do not have to have all three right from the get go. I might pick 2 and 3. :3 Save up, get connected to people and also keep learning the hands down style so I am better prepared for the all the eking that is headed my way somewhere down the line
How does this sound? :3
How does this sound? :3
Dyhalto
7536
Why condemn yourself to an existence of eking by at all?
Why not get trained/educated in some field with relatively good opportunities, get a job in said field, and then gam mak on the side? You could run your game company as a side business if you feel so inclined, or you could just do what I do : Guesstimate the man hours you put into game development, guesstimate a reasonable number of sales x sale price (compare what you would make to something similar), and divide the total income by your man hours. Seeing as I would be making the equivalent of pennies per hour, I've decided to keep it as a labor of love.
Granted, there are other benefits to having a business like tax write-offs, but you get the idea.
Why not get trained/educated in some field with relatively good opportunities, get a job in said field, and then gam mak on the side? You could run your game company as a side business if you feel so inclined, or you could just do what I do : Guesstimate the man hours you put into game development, guesstimate a reasonable number of sales x sale price (compare what you would make to something similar), and divide the total income by your man hours. Seeing as I would be making the equivalent of pennies per hour, I've decided to keep it as a labor of love.
Granted, there are other benefits to having a business like tax write-offs, but you get the idea.
I would like to gam mak on the side till I have enough money and skills to feel confident about gam making on the front :3 As tasking as university is right now. A full time job is going to be a even more so, must limit the number of hours left to make good, nay great games.
A job takes so much of our time. I do not want to spend a good fraction of my life doing something I don't want to just to get paid, I want to get paid for something that I actually want to do, such as most of my school work :3
Work = fun = better employee = more benefits
Sad part is. Fun for me is the game industry. Will just need to figure it out while making sure to put at least a few eggs in another basket.
A job takes so much of our time. I do not want to spend a good fraction of my life doing something I don't want to just to get paid, I want to get paid for something that I actually want to do, such as most of my school work :3
Work = fun = better employee = more benefits
Sad part is. Fun for me is the game industry. Will just need to figure it out while making sure to put at least a few eggs in another basket.
Job with gam mak on the side is the best way to go. Use gam mak as supplemental income if at all. Some devs have the privilege (with, like anything, drawbacks) of being able to stay at home 24/7 whilst being supported by family or friends. These will be able to crank out a lot of hours to prove themselves.
But it will require a lot of talent, a lot of time, without much monetary reward. The reward will be a dream well-realized. And if that alone is good for you, then perhaps you didn't need this talk to convince you anyway.
But it will require a lot of talent, a lot of time, without much monetary reward. The reward will be a dream well-realized. And if that alone is good for you, then perhaps you didn't need this talk to convince you anyway.
Well my day job is a .NET Developer, but I make some pretty tidy profit by doing plugin/script commissions for RM users. Not sure if you'd count that as a success story.
Making games is what I want to do as well. It's what makes me happy. But, currently, I feel fulfilled making them on the side while I have a day job to pay the bills. I prefer releasing games for free because I value people playing the games more than the money I might get from it.
That said, more and more people are urging me to go commercial. And I'd like to stress that there's absolutely nothing wrong with going that route and getting paid for your work. It would all be wonderful if we could all support ourselves with our passion projects.
But the reality of it is that the indie scene is very crowded right now, and only a very lucky few can really claim massive success on that route, much less quit their day jobs. You have to be not only a really good developer, but excel at marketing and getting the word out about your games, and having the good fortune to go viral. Your games need to be something that totally appeals to a mass market (which is generally a problem for me since I like niche genres a lot XD;;;;) Thanks to winning a contest, a game I made alongside two dear friends did in fact go commercial, but the money from that month to month generally isn't enough to buy a pizza much less live off of.
My advice to anyone looking to go commercial is to first make games for free that the community consistently likes and rates highly. This will allow a developer to get the feedback they need and the time to really develop their game-making skills. If you can consistently do exceedingly well with free games (including both good reviews and a lot of downloads), only then would I consider going commercial.
Best of luck, and I can only hope that I'm just pessimistic on this subject, but it does very much feel like the reality of it is like Dyhalto and psy_wombats have said, where you either do it as a labor of love or you choose "pick two of 1) creative control, 2) artistically interesting, or 3) steady wellpaying work."
That said, more and more people are urging me to go commercial. And I'd like to stress that there's absolutely nothing wrong with going that route and getting paid for your work. It would all be wonderful if we could all support ourselves with our passion projects.
But the reality of it is that the indie scene is very crowded right now, and only a very lucky few can really claim massive success on that route, much less quit their day jobs. You have to be not only a really good developer, but excel at marketing and getting the word out about your games, and having the good fortune to go viral. Your games need to be something that totally appeals to a mass market (which is generally a problem for me since I like niche genres a lot XD;;;;) Thanks to winning a contest, a game I made alongside two dear friends did in fact go commercial, but the money from that month to month generally isn't enough to buy a pizza much less live off of.
My advice to anyone looking to go commercial is to first make games for free that the community consistently likes and rates highly. This will allow a developer to get the feedback they need and the time to really develop their game-making skills. If you can consistently do exceedingly well with free games (including both good reviews and a lot of downloads), only then would I consider going commercial.
Best of luck, and I can only hope that I'm just pessimistic on this subject, but it does very much feel like the reality of it is like Dyhalto and psy_wombats have said, where you either do it as a labor of love or you choose "pick two of 1) creative control, 2) artistically interesting, or 3) steady wellpaying work."
Momeka
4199
Well, I've been managing to make a living from making games the past five years. I started making games when I was 13 - 14 in rpgmaker - gamemaker and it's pretty much what I did all my teenage years. When I turned 18 I started studying game programming for three years.
At the school I befriended a bunch of cool people, one of them I ended up starting a company with after we graduated.
Now, I'm not going to lie, it was fucking rough, the first year we just lived as cheap as we could on the school loans we had saved up. When we started the company our goal was to develop our own games but we quickly realized it wasn't going to be doable. Our savings would last half a year tops and the game we worked on was way to ambitious.
So we started doing games for hire, mostly educational children games for mobile. Not really the kinds of games we wanted to do, but we learned a lot from doing them. It was kinda like paid education, as our mindset was to make them the best games we could and not just rush through them. Not really the easiest thing as some clients can have some really weird ideas they insists you put in the game.
We were finally able to take out a salary, nothing to write home about but it was better then nothing.
On the side of all this we started going to a bunch of game jams. It was like a vacation from doing the games for hire. During a very short period of time we got to do our own stuff however we wanted.
At first we lost like every jam we were at, but over the years we started winning more and more of them.
Late last year we were at a game jam hosted by a publisher that we won. Now they are going to publish our game and fund the development for it. And it's the first time we will be able to drop all our work for hire and fully focus on doing our own thing.
It hasn't been easy, there is couple of times we thought we would have to shut down as we couldn't find any work. But then at the last moment something showed up. There's been periods where we couldn't afford taking out a salary, the longest being half a year. It's really stressful seeing your savings being eaten away not knowing when you can refill them.
If you want to start a company my advice is to keep the team small. At first we where around 10 people who wanted to start the company, after school seven of them bailed and the third guy jumped ship the last minute. And good for us because the work we took on wouldn't have been able to support that many.
Second advice is do something really small to release. If you want a publisher it's good to show that you have been through a production from start to finish.
Third consider getting a publisher, like other said the indie game market is flooded with new games every day. Someone that can pay and do marketing for you takes you a long way. There are plenty of small to large publishers focusing on indies these days.
Lastly, work for hire might not always be the most fun but it can pay the bills and give you some more time to work on your own stuff.
At the school I befriended a bunch of cool people, one of them I ended up starting a company with after we graduated.
Now, I'm not going to lie, it was fucking rough, the first year we just lived as cheap as we could on the school loans we had saved up. When we started the company our goal was to develop our own games but we quickly realized it wasn't going to be doable. Our savings would last half a year tops and the game we worked on was way to ambitious.
So we started doing games for hire, mostly educational children games for mobile. Not really the kinds of games we wanted to do, but we learned a lot from doing them. It was kinda like paid education, as our mindset was to make them the best games we could and not just rush through them. Not really the easiest thing as some clients can have some really weird ideas they insists you put in the game.
We were finally able to take out a salary, nothing to write home about but it was better then nothing.
On the side of all this we started going to a bunch of game jams. It was like a vacation from doing the games for hire. During a very short period of time we got to do our own stuff however we wanted.
At first we lost like every jam we were at, but over the years we started winning more and more of them.
Late last year we were at a game jam hosted by a publisher that we won. Now they are going to publish our game and fund the development for it. And it's the first time we will be able to drop all our work for hire and fully focus on doing our own thing.
It hasn't been easy, there is couple of times we thought we would have to shut down as we couldn't find any work. But then at the last moment something showed up. There's been periods where we couldn't afford taking out a salary, the longest being half a year. It's really stressful seeing your savings being eaten away not knowing when you can refill them.
If you want to start a company my advice is to keep the team small. At first we where around 10 people who wanted to start the company, after school seven of them bailed and the third guy jumped ship the last minute. And good for us because the work we took on wouldn't have been able to support that many.
Second advice is do something really small to release. If you want a publisher it's good to show that you have been through a production from start to finish.
Third consider getting a publisher, like other said the indie game market is flooded with new games every day. Someone that can pay and do marketing for you takes you a long way. There are plenty of small to large publishers focusing on indies these days.
Lastly, work for hire might not always be the most fun but it can pay the bills and give you some more time to work on your own stuff.
Its a hard dream to dream indeed. I mean I have known many of your works for years now, and if you have a tough time going commercial and here I am, only a fledgling. Thank you all.
I will try to not put all my eggs in one basket and find less risky ways to work towards commercialism. Even though its a difficult endevour and I live in a place from that is not home to any real success stories yet.
But what can you do about it? :3 that is just life. Got to work with what I have got.
Maybe I will find a way to do my masters abroad.
Edit: Do not have actual access to publishers, or game jams, or game conferences or commercial developers. Are there any publishers who work over the internet entirely?
Edit 2: I have been through a quite a few products form start to finish. All were published for free. Do these count?
I will try to not put all my eggs in one basket and find less risky ways to work towards commercialism. Even though its a difficult endevour and I live in a place from that is not home to any real success stories yet.
But what can you do about it? :3 that is just life. Got to work with what I have got.
Maybe I will find a way to do my masters abroad.
Edit: Do not have actual access to publishers, or game jams, or game conferences or commercial developers. Are there any publishers who work over the internet entirely?
Edit 2: I have been through a quite a few products form start to finish. All were published for free. Do these count?
