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WHAT IS MAGIC? WHAT DOES IT MEAN? HOW DOES IT WORK?
Posts
XBuster
1385
XBuster
View playlists
CloseHello RMN, I have been in deep thought about this and thought it was best to ask everyone this. What is magic to you? What does it mean? How does it work? No, I don't mean the stuff that you toss at your foes in games and stuff, but as an experience.
In RPGs, stories are very important regardless of what type of RPG it is. The characters and story have to blend well, otherwise it was all for naught. Is magic something that is unforgettable? Something that will remain in your heart for as long as you live and beyond? Is magic emotion? Does it have realism to relate to the real world? What are some key essentials to creating a magical experience without over complicating the plot?
It doesn't exactly have to be in an RPG, but what experiences have been magical to you? Some say, Disney, Nintendo, Square Enix, Studio Ghibli, and several others are the best places to search for it, but how exactly do you achieve it? I've played most Final Fantasy games, watched most Disney classics, and watched a majority of Studio Ghibli's films, yet the definition of "magic" is something that is hard to pull off without time.
The reason why I'm asking is because, I am starting to create the story for my project now that I know everything there is to know about the series. It took years of research and playthroughs of every game(sometimes several times) to find out everything about everything; the characters, the storyline, the chronology, the music, all of it. But, now that its time to put the story together, its a lot harder than I thought.
The game play or mapping isn't the problem, but since the story combines the whole chronology into one as well as adding a new one, bringing everyone together and figuring out how they meet is challenging. It would be a shame if the game was ruined by a story that doesn't fit the characters or atmosphere.I would greatly appreciate any help on this.
Its thanks to everyone that the game has made it this far, perhaps this will push even further.
In RPGs, stories are very important regardless of what type of RPG it is. The characters and story have to blend well, otherwise it was all for naught. Is magic something that is unforgettable? Something that will remain in your heart for as long as you live and beyond? Is magic emotion? Does it have realism to relate to the real world? What are some key essentials to creating a magical experience without over complicating the plot?
It doesn't exactly have to be in an RPG, but what experiences have been magical to you? Some say, Disney, Nintendo, Square Enix, Studio Ghibli, and several others are the best places to search for it, but how exactly do you achieve it? I've played most Final Fantasy games, watched most Disney classics, and watched a majority of Studio Ghibli's films, yet the definition of "magic" is something that is hard to pull off without time.
The reason why I'm asking is because, I am starting to create the story for my project now that I know everything there is to know about the series. It took years of research and playthroughs of every game(sometimes several times) to find out everything about everything; the characters, the storyline, the chronology, the music, all of it. But, now that its time to put the story together, its a lot harder than I thought.
The game play or mapping isn't the problem, but since the story combines the whole chronology into one as well as adding a new one, bringing everyone together and figuring out how they meet is challenging. It would be a shame if the game was ruined by a story that doesn't fit the characters or atmosphere.I would greatly appreciate any help on this.
Its thanks to everyone that the game has made it this far, perhaps this will push even further.
I'm going to be a spoilsport for a just little bit here and say: Magic doesn't exist. Stories can be about magic, but they aren't magical themselves. As a form of art, storytelling is a conscious and deliberate act that is received by and interacts with the human brain, just like everything else we perceive. If you want others to have an unforgettable experience with something you produce, you have to find out how to affect them the way you want to, that's all.
Now, the reason I'm starting this off in such a rationalist, cold manner isn't that I want to ruin your enjoyment or claim that emotion and storytelling have nothing to do with each other, on the contrary. But I think it's important not to lose yourself in romanticised ideas about creativity, and rather try to find out for yourself from which angle you want to approach your own work.
If all you care about is to bring your own vision of a creative piece you deeply care about to life, then you shouldn't worry about any of this. Just make what you want to make, because you're doing it for your own enjoyment.
However, if you care about creating something not just for yourself, but also for others to experience and enjoy, you'll have to be aware that you are trying to address the brains of other humans. And while they might be fundamentally different from yours and each other, there's generally two aspects to consider in this case.
Firstly, on the rational and logical side, you should take into account that in a way, storytelling is a craft. You need to know the raw material you are working with, and have the skills to form it in such a way that it clearly reflects what you want to convey. If you don't have good command of the language you are using, for instance, it's likely to assume you won't be able to get across what you're trying to say. You also need to be able to make good estimations as to the effects of your storytelling and direction on the audience. When trying to write and set up a scene, you should try to analyse how it is composed, and what impression it will likely make on another person when they see it.
And secondly, there's the emotional side. Because obviously, humans aren't purely rational and machine-like creatures, and writing that is good on the technical level alone isn't guaranteed to deeply affect people. You definitely have to ask yourself whether you yourself really are invested in the story you are trying to convey, and if so, why. After all, you are aiming to make your audience feel just as invested in and emotionally attached to your story as you are. (Or, if you are going for a more abstract mode of storytelling, you may not want your audience to feel invested, but you are still trying to cause some sort of impact on the emotional level.)
I think that the most important thing to remember here is that after working on a story for a long time, writers can become too attached to certain points or details, or even the entire setup itself. It's easy to lose sight of what's actually important, and what's there just because you can't bring yourself to to think about it not being there. If you can manage to distance yourself from your own ideas for a little while, try to critically examine which parts actually serve a purpose in enhancing the experience, and which ones only exist for their own sake, could distract or even bore the player, or generally detract from a sense of unity and wholeness of the entire work of art.
Again, this isn't to say your work can't have its own little quirks and innovations, quite the opposite. Just try to ask yourself about anything you create: Why is this a part of my work, and what does it do in terms of my audience's perception.
Of course, a lot of this is kind of theoretical, but I doubt there is one absolute path to good storytelling anyway. Generally speaking, I would call a game an unforgettable or "magical" experience if I can enjoy and appreciate it the entire time, and at the end it leaves me both with a sense of satisfaction and an unfulfillable craving for more. That's my view on it, anyway.
Now, the reason I'm starting this off in such a rationalist, cold manner isn't that I want to ruin your enjoyment or claim that emotion and storytelling have nothing to do with each other, on the contrary. But I think it's important not to lose yourself in romanticised ideas about creativity, and rather try to find out for yourself from which angle you want to approach your own work.
If all you care about is to bring your own vision of a creative piece you deeply care about to life, then you shouldn't worry about any of this. Just make what you want to make, because you're doing it for your own enjoyment.
However, if you care about creating something not just for yourself, but also for others to experience and enjoy, you'll have to be aware that you are trying to address the brains of other humans. And while they might be fundamentally different from yours and each other, there's generally two aspects to consider in this case.
Firstly, on the rational and logical side, you should take into account that in a way, storytelling is a craft. You need to know the raw material you are working with, and have the skills to form it in such a way that it clearly reflects what you want to convey. If you don't have good command of the language you are using, for instance, it's likely to assume you won't be able to get across what you're trying to say. You also need to be able to make good estimations as to the effects of your storytelling and direction on the audience. When trying to write and set up a scene, you should try to analyse how it is composed, and what impression it will likely make on another person when they see it.
And secondly, there's the emotional side. Because obviously, humans aren't purely rational and machine-like creatures, and writing that is good on the technical level alone isn't guaranteed to deeply affect people. You definitely have to ask yourself whether you yourself really are invested in the story you are trying to convey, and if so, why. After all, you are aiming to make your audience feel just as invested in and emotionally attached to your story as you are. (Or, if you are going for a more abstract mode of storytelling, you may not want your audience to feel invested, but you are still trying to cause some sort of impact on the emotional level.)
I think that the most important thing to remember here is that after working on a story for a long time, writers can become too attached to certain points or details, or even the entire setup itself. It's easy to lose sight of what's actually important, and what's there just because you can't bring yourself to to think about it not being there. If you can manage to distance yourself from your own ideas for a little while, try to critically examine which parts actually serve a purpose in enhancing the experience, and which ones only exist for their own sake, could distract or even bore the player, or generally detract from a sense of unity and wholeness of the entire work of art.
Again, this isn't to say your work can't have its own little quirks and innovations, quite the opposite. Just try to ask yourself about anything you create: Why is this a part of my work, and what does it do in terms of my audience's perception.
Of course, a lot of this is kind of theoretical, but I doubt there is one absolute path to good storytelling anyway. Generally speaking, I would call a game an unforgettable or "magical" experience if I can enjoy and appreciate it the entire time, and at the end it leaves me both with a sense of satisfaction and an unfulfillable craving for more. That's my view on it, anyway.
StarSkipp
2007
Oh... I was kinda expecting this to be about the nature of "magic" in RPG's and where they originated from :<
XBuster
1385
@Never Silent. This is a perfect answer! You hit many key points and struggles I have been having lately. Not only did you answer my question, but you went into depth of why and what really matters. When dealing with storytelling, there is a plethora of things that should interact with us on a physical level. Will it make us smile or laugh, will it make us cry or change how we see ourselves or the world around us?
Many questions linger in creative arts. I am going to save your comment and meditate on it for a day or two. This is actually just what was needed. And thank you for being honest:) Saying that magic doesn't exist, its simply created on how you portray things and if its powerful enough to grasp your overall interest the whole way through. Of course, there are less interesting segments here and there. But in the end, like you have said, we want to feel satisfied and come back for more. I believe this is why sequels and prequels are made.
If something has been released and it dwells in our hearts to a certain level and keeps us wondering what will happen next or if there will be more in the future. Of course, that all depends on tastes of the viewer.
Thank you so much for the well balanced and rock solid response. It has been a tremendous help.
@StarSkipp- lol, sorry to disappoint. I wouldn't know how it originated, but that would be an interesting topic.
@InfectionFiles- haha, nice rhyme.
Many questions linger in creative arts. I am going to save your comment and meditate on it for a day or two. This is actually just what was needed. And thank you for being honest:) Saying that magic doesn't exist, its simply created on how you portray things and if its powerful enough to grasp your overall interest the whole way through. Of course, there are less interesting segments here and there. But in the end, like you have said, we want to feel satisfied and come back for more. I believe this is why sequels and prequels are made.
If something has been released and it dwells in our hearts to a certain level and keeps us wondering what will happen next or if there will be more in the future. Of course, that all depends on tastes of the viewer.
Thank you so much for the well balanced and rock solid response. It has been a tremendous help.
@StarSkipp- lol, sorry to disappoint. I wouldn't know how it originated, but that would be an interesting topic.
@InfectionFiles- haha, nice rhyme.
I am with NeverSilent though I would take a much more emotional approach, haha (tho, it also relates to our subconscious brain so hey ; )).
Magical is what is really touching, empowering, thought-provoking, relatable, close to heart or just so well-made and so perfect in its own wholeness you are in awe. There are plenty of people who love the crafty side of things, the animation quality etc.. but those wouldn't call it magic, really.
In other words, everyone has their own things, themes, emotions, ideas, struggles they relate to. You will have a spread in that, and while emotions for the most part are universal concepts (as in: everyone is capable of having different emotions, or having experience with them from people they know), they aren't always readily available, nor where the person is at at that moment.
So what does matter beyond that, is how well-crafted they are. If they can remind and give view into different things, rather than just mirror where they are at right now.
You see all kinds of themes everywhere, but how well it is crafted determines how easily you can get into it even if you do already relate to those things.
Rather than asking what series, games etc. has been magical to people, it'd be better to ask how, or why. That will give a far better view into what people perceive as that (you know what was the biggest highlight of spirited away for me? haku, the dragon, figures! and even that answer says absolutely nothing because it's by far only one of many things I liked in it, and putting a dragon into stuff alone won't work even if I do like dragons .. see where I'm going?).
That still doesn't make any game or story "magical", not everyone will like it, relate to it, and even if they do, they will for different things and different reasons. The magic is added ourselves.
Consuming media like that gives it a magical feel because it is so natural, so tight, so fluid when it clicks. It's the feeling when people can't quite put the finger on what exactly it is that makes it so good because it's just that good overall. (or possibly when the things that strike you are just so abundant in it, like BRS for me : D)
Creating it gives you a very different set of questions.
You need to approach it on a deeper n different layer than the players would.
It is about having every piece matter (short stories are still the love of writing for me haha), of unnecessary details crossed out and the essence taken out of the many ideas you have.
Cut em down, distill them, hint at them, have them consistent, test n rebalance.
It is hard to get other people invested when you are not, get your passion out there, dig into your own well of what drives and is important to you. Something that relates to experiences you have had or you have seen clearly portrayed many times around you.
*shrug* the craftsy side of hone your skill NeSi clearly described haha. It is very important to consider as well. You need to have something to put out there, as well as have the tools to do so.
Like the order of events happening, what was said first or last all changes how it is received. All the things in the background the player glosses over and is affected by but wouldn't pay a second thought to.
The Great Empty does so pretty well. Just having that really polished n tight n fluid feel to it.
Do your best~ you will put together something good I'm sure.
Magical is what is really touching, empowering, thought-provoking, relatable, close to heart or just so well-made and so perfect in its own wholeness you are in awe. There are plenty of people who love the crafty side of things, the animation quality etc.. but those wouldn't call it magic, really.
In other words, everyone has their own things, themes, emotions, ideas, struggles they relate to. You will have a spread in that, and while emotions for the most part are universal concepts (as in: everyone is capable of having different emotions, or having experience with them from people they know), they aren't always readily available, nor where the person is at at that moment.
So what does matter beyond that, is how well-crafted they are. If they can remind and give view into different things, rather than just mirror where they are at right now.
You see all kinds of themes everywhere, but how well it is crafted determines how easily you can get into it even if you do already relate to those things.
Rather than asking what series, games etc. has been magical to people, it'd be better to ask how, or why. That will give a far better view into what people perceive as that (you know what was the biggest highlight of spirited away for me? haku, the dragon, figures! and even that answer says absolutely nothing because it's by far only one of many things I liked in it, and putting a dragon into stuff alone won't work even if I do like dragons .. see where I'm going?).
That still doesn't make any game or story "magical", not everyone will like it, relate to it, and even if they do, they will for different things and different reasons. The magic is added ourselves.
Consuming media like that gives it a magical feel because it is so natural, so tight, so fluid when it clicks. It's the feeling when people can't quite put the finger on what exactly it is that makes it so good because it's just that good overall. (or possibly when the things that strike you are just so abundant in it, like BRS for me : D)
Creating it gives you a very different set of questions.
You need to approach it on a deeper n different layer than the players would.
It is about having every piece matter (short stories are still the love of writing for me haha), of unnecessary details crossed out and the essence taken out of the many ideas you have.
Cut em down, distill them, hint at them, have them consistent, test n rebalance.
It is hard to get other people invested when you are not, get your passion out there, dig into your own well of what drives and is important to you. Something that relates to experiences you have had or you have seen clearly portrayed many times around you.
*shrug* the craftsy side of hone your skill NeSi clearly described haha. It is very important to consider as well. You need to have something to put out there, as well as have the tools to do so.
Like the order of events happening, what was said first or last all changes how it is received. All the things in the background the player glosses over and is affected by but wouldn't pay a second thought to.
The Great Empty does so pretty well. Just having that really polished n tight n fluid feel to it.
Do your best~ you will put together something good I'm sure.
Magick is delta time and related to gravity and neutrinos.
The world around us is here as much as it isn't here. From our physical perspective, it flickers on and off between particles and antiparticles - latter of which which may or may not actually exist in reality, but our scientists measure things using that terminology.
If you are moving around, whether you're a planet, a squirrel, or a human, you are somehow recycling energy between "time" and "space". Learning to control this is "magick".
If you want to know how it works, I would recommend this book and this site.
I'd also recommend staying the fuck away from New Age material and channeling material in general, including sites, groups, and "expansion packs" based off of the above material, because most of it's bullshit, and also to be careful with the black magick until you know what you're doing. And also take everything with a grain of salt, because out of thousands and thousands and thousands of pages of occult material, the above are some of the only 100% honest material I've found. (Practically speaking, as some of it may be symbolic.)
The world around us is here as much as it isn't here. From our physical perspective, it flickers on and off between particles and antiparticles - latter of which which may or may not actually exist in reality, but our scientists measure things using that terminology.
If you are moving around, whether you're a planet, a squirrel, or a human, you are somehow recycling energy between "time" and "space". Learning to control this is "magick".
If you want to know how it works, I would recommend this book and this site.
I'd also recommend staying the fuck away from New Age material and channeling material in general, including sites, groups, and "expansion packs" based off of the above material, because most of it's bullshit, and also to be careful with the black magick until you know what you're doing. And also take everything with a grain of salt, because out of thousands and thousands and thousands of pages of occult material, the above are some of the only 100% honest material I've found. (Practically speaking, as some of it may be symbolic.)
It's not quite the magic the OP was discussing, but thank you for the links.
The book is quite lovely to read and ties in with much I noticed and have been trying to make better sense of anyway.
Thank you : )
And haha, I agree to take things with a grain of salt. Feel it through yourself.
The book is quite lovely to read and ties in with much I noticed and have been trying to make better sense of anyway.
Thank you : )
And haha, I agree to take things with a grain of salt. Feel it through yourself.
XD
The Topic:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
-deadloli-'s head
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
@Kylaila Buddhist teachings have a great deal to offer the questing mind.
The Topic:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
-deadloli-'s head
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
@Kylaila Buddhist teachings have a great deal to offer the questing mind.
author=NeverSilent
I'm going to be a spoilsport for a just little bit here and say: Magic doesn't exist. Stories can be about magic, but they aren't magical themselves...
Ignore all that. For the purposes of your game, you believe that magic does exist. Because this is the point.
As a student of history, religion, and someone who has looked at occult literature, I have generally come to one conclusion. Most of the stories of cultures with a tradition of black magic (Wicca, Voodoo, etc) arise from the same pattern. There was some ancient religion, but the practice of sorcery came from a sort of misuse of the knowledge of that religion. That is, we have white magic, which under Wicca is about nature and the various spirits and deities (ceremonial/nature magic), and then the black magic ignores the religion or even perverts its teachings to focus instead on spells. Think as it like this, white magic is "O great gods, what can I do for you?" where their magic is almost part of showing people the power of their deity/deities, while black magic is almost a selfish "turning stones into bread" mindset, using religious faith as a sort of practical usage (this is why even black magic that does not have overt dark spells, still has stuff like elementalism, because people always need to able to start a fire).
The point of a good use of magic in a story is to see it as an offshoot of the religious faith of the fantasy realm. That is why I say it is important that you believe in magic, because it's basically the faith of your story. If you don't believe in the story you are writing, who will? Figure out what the religion of your world is, and build your magic from that.
Maybe they don't believe in gods, but they are like Shinto, believing in spirits. Maybe their gods are actually high-tech space aliens whose powers come from technology. Maybe it's a Cthulhu-esque campaign and all of the "gods" are actually horrendous creatures who enslave and eat people. All of these affect the flavor of your magic. Maybe it's Buddhist, and ppl believe in self and enlightenment. Or maybe they are secular atheists and the closest thing to magic is some sort of medicine or alchemy. This is how you create a good game using magic, you see it as part of the religious and natural worldview.
Yeah, I know that wasn't what OP was referring to, but, haha.
Buddhist texts are very outdated. Those and Hindu texts can be useful if you know how to read into the symbolism, but it's not very magickally practical unless you're being personally instructed by a guru who knows how to configure the 72,000 nadis in the human body and apply geometry and electromagnetics.
The whole "black magick-white magick" dichotomy is a myth. Real Wiccans (Gardnerian and such) would tell you, when you got to the right level, that the Threefold Law and all that is a bunch of garbage designed to keep you from using black magick on them.
"Black magick" was commonly accepted in pagan cultures, and there even people who sold such services for a living. It wasn't until Christianity came around and started killing off practitioners of "white" AND "black" magick that magick inherited illusory Abrahamic dualism.
Nowadays, the idea of "black magick" bringing "bad karma" or somesuch is propagated by the enslavers to keep you from messing around with it, because they want a monopoly on it. In reality, it brings "bad karma" in the way that juggling running chainsaws bring "bad karma" - just be careful and know what you're doing.
Buddhist texts are very outdated. Those and Hindu texts can be useful if you know how to read into the symbolism, but it's not very magickally practical unless you're being personally instructed by a guru who knows how to configure the 72,000 nadis in the human body and apply geometry and electromagnetics.
The whole "black magick-white magick" dichotomy is a myth. Real Wiccans (Gardnerian and such) would tell you, when you got to the right level, that the Threefold Law and all that is a bunch of garbage designed to keep you from using black magick on them.
"Black magick" was commonly accepted in pagan cultures, and there even people who sold such services for a living. It wasn't until Christianity came around and started killing off practitioners of "white" AND "black" magick that magick inherited illusory Abrahamic dualism.
Nowadays, the idea of "black magick" bringing "bad karma" or somesuch is propagated by the enslavers to keep you from messing around with it, because they want a monopoly on it. In reality, it brings "bad karma" in the way that juggling running chainsaws bring "bad karma" - just be careful and know what you're doing.
@bulmabriefs144:
That is not at all what this topic is about. You are free to have your own ideas on how to approach magic as a phenomenon within a game's world, that's fine. But that is not what the OP was asking about, or what I was talking about, for that matter.
Regarding the other points about magic/magick in real life: This is exactly why I started out my post the way I did. Because, no offense, I think that those kinds of approaches are exactly the romanticised or skewed perspectives that prevent you from seeing things from a professional perspective, instead of just the way you wish them to be.
Again, all of you can obviously believe whatever you want, and I neither can nor want to tell you you are not allowed to have those views. But as far as I'm concerned, at least, all things supernatural, paranormal and occult are superstition and wishful thinking. And while that doesn't mean those ideas can't be incredibly fascinating, they are not a good basis for discussing concepts and ideas that are more or less universally perceivable and logically graspable to humanity.
Besides, as said before, it has pretty much nothing to do with the topic of this thread. If you want to keep talking about this stuff, don't let anyone stop you. But I would strongly recommend moving that discussion to its own thread, where it actually belongs.
Other than that, I agree with a lot of Kylaila's points. On the most basic and dry level, the "magic" in experiencing a story or other work of art is a result of some abstract form of communication. It's something that is created by someone and perceived by another person. Indeed, emotions and individual experiences have a large impact on how this act of communication plays out, and you can never guarantee that it works the way you wanted. But in general, the better you are at crafting your means of communication and anticipating what its effects will be, the more likely your work is to resonate with the recipient. And that means taking into account both the rational and the emotional side of human perception, experience and thought processes.
That is not at all what this topic is about. You are free to have your own ideas on how to approach magic as a phenomenon within a game's world, that's fine. But that is not what the OP was asking about, or what I was talking about, for that matter.
Regarding the other points about magic/magick in real life: This is exactly why I started out my post the way I did. Because, no offense, I think that those kinds of approaches are exactly the romanticised or skewed perspectives that prevent you from seeing things from a professional perspective, instead of just the way you wish them to be.
Again, all of you can obviously believe whatever you want, and I neither can nor want to tell you you are not allowed to have those views. But as far as I'm concerned, at least, all things supernatural, paranormal and occult are superstition and wishful thinking. And while that doesn't mean those ideas can't be incredibly fascinating, they are not a good basis for discussing concepts and ideas that are more or less universally perceivable and logically graspable to humanity.
Besides, as said before, it has pretty much nothing to do with the topic of this thread. If you want to keep talking about this stuff, don't let anyone stop you. But I would strongly recommend moving that discussion to its own thread, where it actually belongs.
Other than that, I agree with a lot of Kylaila's points. On the most basic and dry level, the "magic" in experiencing a story or other work of art is a result of some abstract form of communication. It's something that is created by someone and perceived by another person. Indeed, emotions and individual experiences have a large impact on how this act of communication plays out, and you can never guarantee that it works the way you wanted. But in general, the better you are at crafting your means of communication and anticipating what its effects will be, the more likely your work is to resonate with the recipient. And that means taking into account both the rational and the emotional side of human perception, experience and thought processes.
Haha, fair enough.
All I say is what I believe in, and what shapes my world is based on my personal experience and reach. And it led me there *grins* It is strange to say "believing" in some sort of concept. It never worked like that for me, I take what I can see, understand and know. I enjoy taking inspiration though as I am open to new things.
That said, you very likely imagine drastically different things than what I mean or see in this world when you said that *chuckles* I am not too interested in magic as a direct concept, either. You do your thing, man.
And you make a good point with it not being perceivable by all of humanity. Personally I say they are capable, but many choose not to, or don't value or pay attention to such things. Not to mention that even so it says little for right now. So that is fair to say and very personal.
No need to discuss it here when everyone will have a vastly different story to tell. But then that is also part of what makes it so fascinating.
--
And yeah, on-topic, striking that balance of communicating from your heart-space as well as the finesse to craft it into a well-laid out experience is the balance to strike.
I feel there are many very polished and incredibly well-done games out there that fail to really pack a punch emotionally.
And likewise emotional games that are very very flawed.
Putting the two together makes it stand out.
All I say is what I believe in, and what shapes my world is based on my personal experience and reach. And it led me there *grins* It is strange to say "believing" in some sort of concept. It never worked like that for me, I take what I can see, understand and know. I enjoy taking inspiration though as I am open to new things.
That said, you very likely imagine drastically different things than what I mean or see in this world when you said that *chuckles* I am not too interested in magic as a direct concept, either. You do your thing, man.
And you make a good point with it not being perceivable by all of humanity. Personally I say they are capable, but many choose not to, or don't value or pay attention to such things. Not to mention that even so it says little for right now. So that is fair to say and very personal.
No need to discuss it here when everyone will have a vastly different story to tell. But then that is also part of what makes it so fascinating.
--
And yeah, on-topic, striking that balance of communicating from your heart-space as well as the finesse to craft it into a well-laid out experience is the balance to strike.
I feel there are many very polished and incredibly well-done games out there that fail to really pack a punch emotionally.
And likewise emotional games that are very very flawed.
Putting the two together makes it stand out.
Well, basically what I meant was that ideally, the magic (and techniques, by extension) is part of worldbuilding.
The best example of this I can think of is Final Fantasy. Final Fantasy V when you had the last chapter or so, and rounded up Holy and Flare in the tower. Final Fantasy VI had the esper magic. Or the (uncastable) usage of Holy and Meteor in FFVII.
The best example of this I can think of is Final Fantasy. Final Fantasy V when you had the last chapter or so, and rounded up Holy and Flare in the tower. Final Fantasy VI had the esper magic. Or the (uncastable) usage of Holy and Meteor in FFVII.
author=NeverSilent
@bulmabriefs144:
That is not at all what this topic is about. You are free to have your own ideas on how to approach magic as a phenomenon within a game's world, that's fine. But that is not what the OP was asking about, or what I was talking about, for that matter.
Regarding the other points about magic/magick in real life: This is exactly why I started out my post the way I did. Because, no offense, I think that those kinds of approaches are exactly the romanticised or skewed perspectives that prevent you from seeing things from a professional perspective, instead of just the way you wish them to be.
Again, all of you can obviously believe whatever you want, and I neither can nor want to tell you you are not allowed to have those views. But as far as I'm concerned, at least, all things supernatural, paranormal and occult are superstition and wishful thinking. And while that doesn't mean those ideas can't be incredibly fascinating, they are not a good basis for discussing concepts and ideas that are more or less universally perceivable and logically graspable to humanity.
Besides, as said before, it has pretty much nothing to do with the topic of this thread. If you want to keep talking about this stuff, don't let anyone stop you. But I would strongly recommend moving that discussion to its own thread, where it actually belongs.
Other than that, I agree with a lot of Kylaila's points. On the most basic and dry level, the "magic" in experiencing a story or other work of art is a result of some abstract form of communication. It's something that is created by someone and perceived by another person. Indeed, emotions and individual experiences have a large impact on how this act of communication plays out, and you can never guarantee that it works the way you wanted. But in general, the better you are at crafting your means of communication and anticipating what its effects will be, the more likely your work is to resonate with the recipient. And that means taking into account both the rational and the emotional side of human perception, experience and thought processes.
If this wasn't the topic for that, then why did you bring it up in the first place? You were the one who started it by bringing up how real magick isn't in your belief system.
And, yeah, the full color spectrum isn't universally perceivable to canines, and what would you do if one of them started talking and demanded that you prove the existence of "green"?
Electromagnetics. History. Geometry. I don't know how to de-romanticize this very real phenomenon any more than the way I'm approaching it here, but you want to think of anyone who thinks differently than you as a romanticized, unprofessional bubblehead, so I doubt I'll change your mind, but...
Those of you who don't know will soon, anyways.
You know what I *do* think is romantic? Chaos. And when people start to realize what's going on, there's gonna be LOTS of it.
Any of you self-styled "patricians" reading this better enjoy your heads while they're still on your necks.
And to those who have no idea what I'm talking about, sharpen your axes, because shit's about to get crazy.
User was warned for this post
XBuster
1385
This thread is full of so many funny, and very inspirational material. So far, I have saved several comments to a document to let them simmer for bit. And yes, to clear things up, I am talking about a magical experience that you have had in many works. Gaming, movies, books, music, all of it.
Though, it specifically is talking about story lines that you have experienced that you have considered magical. The recipe for "magic" is dependent on what you want to get out there as Kylaila and NeverSilent have already spoken into the atmosphere.
When watching certain movies like Howl's Moving Castle,Spirited Away, or Aladdin Or playing games like Kingdom Hearts and Final Fantasy(6-10 comes to mind), I can't help but wonder what the word "magic" means in the sense. Based on what has been said here, it seems to be described as some sort of bonding that occurs between the media and the viewers. This bond usually occurs naturally as you view all aspects of the experience.
Everything in the experience plays a role in creating this delicious recipe that will keep people coming back for more. Every piece of it is an ingredient. They all work together to make events powerful. If a character dies, and somebody is playing rock music, its not going to be powerful compared to a song that makes you want to start bawling. I remember I cried when Alys died in Phantasy Star IV. The music was one of the saddest and still is one of the saddest songs I've ever heard.
Some users here keep talking about an "Ambient". I had no idea what the word meant until yesterday. An ambient is basically something that should match with something else. That indeed is an important piece.
In a nutshell, you all are helping me a great deal with this. Thank you all for complete honesty and flow of knowledge that was needed to gain a better understanding of what it means to create magic. I'll do my best.
Though, it specifically is talking about story lines that you have experienced that you have considered magical. The recipe for "magic" is dependent on what you want to get out there as Kylaila and NeverSilent have already spoken into the atmosphere.
When watching certain movies like Howl's Moving Castle,Spirited Away, or Aladdin Or playing games like Kingdom Hearts and Final Fantasy(6-10 comes to mind), I can't help but wonder what the word "magic" means in the sense. Based on what has been said here, it seems to be described as some sort of bonding that occurs between the media and the viewers. This bond usually occurs naturally as you view all aspects of the experience.
Everything in the experience plays a role in creating this delicious recipe that will keep people coming back for more. Every piece of it is an ingredient. They all work together to make events powerful. If a character dies, and somebody is playing rock music, its not going to be powerful compared to a song that makes you want to start bawling. I remember I cried when Alys died in Phantasy Star IV. The music was one of the saddest and still is one of the saddest songs I've ever heard.
Some users here keep talking about an "Ambient". I had no idea what the word meant until yesterday. An ambient is basically something that should match with something else. That indeed is an important piece.
In a nutshell, you all are helping me a great deal with this. Thank you all for complete honesty and flow of knowledge that was needed to gain a better understanding of what it means to create magic. I'll do my best.
author=-deadloli-
If this wasn't the topic for that, then why did you bring it up in the first place? You were the one who started it by bringing up how real magick isn't in your belief system.
And, yeah, the full color spectrum isn't universally perceivable to canines, and what would you do if one of them started talking and demanded that you prove the existence of "green"?
Electromagnetics. History. Geometry. I don't know how to de-romanticize this very real phenomenon any more than the way I'm approaching it here, but you want to think of anyone who thinks differently than you as a romanticized, unprofessional bubblehead, so I doubt I'll change your mind, but...
Those of you who don't know will soon, anyways.
You know what I *do* think is romantic? Chaos. And when people start to realize what's going on, there's gonna be LOTS of it.
Any of you self-styled "patricians" reading this better enjoy your heads while they're still on your necks.
And to those who have no idea what I'm talking about, sharpen your axes, because shit's about to get crazy.
Ehm... excuse me? I hope I'm misunderstanding this, but are you trying to threaten me? Over a topic like this?
I never intended to make this personal, I never even said anything negative about people with different beliefs, just that I can't see the value in them. And I had originally never imagined anyone would try to turn this into a discussion about "real" magic to begin with. The only reason I even brought it up was to try and emphasise that I think it's important to at least partially go about this kind of discussion in a more methodical way.
Believe whatever you want. But don't go out of your way to try and force it down other people's throat, especially not in a topic that had nothing to do with it to begin with. And above all else, please don't get so aggressive when nobody was attacking you.
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Anyway, I'm glad to hear you're enjoying the exchange, XBuster. Kylaila pretty much said everything I would have wanted to add in the last part of their post already, and better than I could have said it. And I think this paragraph of yours perfectly summarised the idea of a work as a composition of many aspects that all interact with each other and the recipient to create a full experience:
author=XBuster
Everything in the experience plays a role in creating this delicious recipe that will keep people coming back for more. Every piece of it is an ingredient. They all work together to make events powerful.
author=-deadloli-
And to those who have no idea what I'm talking about, sharpen your axes, because shit's about to get crazy.
Uhhhh, I had no idea whether that was aimed at me or the quoter actually. That was freaking crazy indeed.
About what I said above, whether you want to call it belief of not, there is zero need to get defensive. Think of it as the motif of the story -> magic. This is key to any good game, figure out the underlying motif, develop your stats/magic around it. A game about clerics, would naturally have a large portion of the party be white mages. Space aliens? Magic involves laser beams and psychic powers (Earthbound, for instance). Set in the stone ages? Most of the "spells" involve inventive ways to club ppl over the head, grunting and howling noises, and possibly blue magic.
author=-deadloli-Your /b/tardism is showing real hard here, edgelord.
You know what I *do* think is romantic? Chaos. And when people start to realize what's going on, there's gonna be LOTS of it.
Any of you self-styled "patricians" reading this better enjoy your heads while they're still on your necks.
And to those who have no idea what I'm talking about, sharpen your axes, because shit's about to get crazy.
EDIT: Oh you're banned. Well then.
