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[RMMV] ENEMY MOODS: WHAT ELSE COULD I DO WITH THIS MECHANIC?
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geri_khan
90
geri_khan
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CloseOK, I'm writing this because I have a mechanic that could be interesting, but I'm not sure if I'm making full use of it. So I'm wondering if anyone has ideas for uses of it that may not have occurred to me.
Any thoughts?
---------------------------------
Each enemy has a mood, measured with two hidden variables that run from 0-100
Nervous - Confident where if the variable is less than 34 they are Nervous and if it's over 66 they are Confident
Aggressive - Diplomatic which is similar.
Players can manipulate the enemy's moods with skills such as Negotiate, Antagonise or Intimidate, and enemies can alter them as well with their own skills. (for example, I have a Chanter enemy who spreads their current mood to all their allies)
Moods are randomly generated at start of battle, and players are not explicitly told an enemy's mood, and must figure it out. Enemy skills have an icon that shows if they depend on a mood, and text clues appear at the start of each round and when moods change.
Example mood clues for the Chanter.
Moods have the following effects:
They make enemies vulnerable to skills. For example, Boast forces Nervous enemies to skip their turn or even Escape, but will fail and debuff the user if a single enemy is Confident
Some skills, like Betray or Bait Enemy do extra damage to enemies with certain moods.
Most importantly, they manipulate the skills enemies can use. For example, a Healer who becomes Aggressive will stop healing. If she becomes Confident, she gains an AOE heal. A Flunky who is Nervous cannot use the regular attack and can only Flail. And a Nervous Guardian loses their Taunt status and the ability to recast it.
Of course, some enemies have predispositions or immunities to certain moods, including bosses.
Planned but not yet implemented:
A completely Nervous enemy is Confused for a turn and then resets back to Neutral
A completely Confident enemy wastes a turn jeering at you and then resets
A completely Aggressive enemy is Berzerked for a turn and then likewise
A completely Diplomatic enemy is Charmed for a turn and then resets
Events like Critical hits, damage, etc have small effects on the moods.
Not sure about this: Stat changes.
Not doing: it doesn't apply to players just now, I don't want to lock off players abilities, it could be a pain for them.
Any thoughts?
---------------------------------
Each enemy has a mood, measured with two hidden variables that run from 0-100
Nervous - Confident where if the variable is less than 34 they are Nervous and if it's over 66 they are Confident
Aggressive - Diplomatic which is similar.
Players can manipulate the enemy's moods with skills such as Negotiate, Antagonise or Intimidate, and enemies can alter them as well with their own skills. (for example, I have a Chanter enemy who spreads their current mood to all their allies)
Moods are randomly generated at start of battle, and players are not explicitly told an enemy's mood, and must figure it out. Enemy skills have an icon that shows if they depend on a mood, and text clues appear at the start of each round and when moods change.
## Nervous
stateline:20: mumbles to herself
stateloss:20: finds her voice
## Confident
stateline:21: mocks you
stateloss:21: flubs a joke
## Aggressive
stateline:23: screams defiance
stateloss:23: quiets down
# Diplomatic
stateline:24: speaks calmly
stateloss:24: loses her patience
Example mood clues for the Chanter.
Moods have the following effects:
They make enemies vulnerable to skills. For example, Boast forces Nervous enemies to skip their turn or even Escape, but will fail and debuff the user if a single enemy is Confident
Some skills, like Betray or Bait Enemy do extra damage to enemies with certain moods.
Most importantly, they manipulate the skills enemies can use. For example, a Healer who becomes Aggressive will stop healing. If she becomes Confident, she gains an AOE heal. A Flunky who is Nervous cannot use the regular attack and can only Flail. And a Nervous Guardian loses their Taunt status and the ability to recast it.
Of course, some enemies have predispositions or immunities to certain moods, including bosses.
Planned but not yet implemented:
A completely Nervous enemy is Confused for a turn and then resets back to Neutral
A completely Confident enemy wastes a turn jeering at you and then resets
A completely Aggressive enemy is Berzerked for a turn and then likewise
A completely Diplomatic enemy is Charmed for a turn and then resets
Events like Critical hits, damage, etc have small effects on the moods.
Not sure about this: Stat changes.
Not doing: it doesn't apply to players just now, I don't want to lock off players abilities, it could be a pain for them.
EDPVincent
12
That actually sounds like it could be an interesting mechanic. Shin Megami Tensei games had a similar mechanic you could look into for inspiration, in which you could negotiate with enemies and even recruit them. Besides that, it sounds like it would have a big impact on the combat system, so if you're going to use it make sure there are enough options to make it meaningful and not ignored in favour of basic damage skills and the like.
Ramshackin
1462
author=geri_khan
Each enemy has a mood, measured with two hidden variables
author=geri_khan
players are not explicitly told an enemy's mood, and must figure it out
This sounds dangerous. If the system isn't transparent enough, you run the risk of players ignoring it completely. If battles are balanced in a way where exploiting the system is required, players will find the game too difficult and quit.
What could make the system compelling is if the only way to win a battle was to accurately guess what moods the enemies are in, then play a power move that succeeds or fails based on whether you were right - like your Boast skill that fails if a single enemy is Confident. Then the flow of battle becomes spending a few turns feeling out what mood the enemy is in, applying some manipulation skills to force them into the mood you need for your big finish, then pulling the trigger when you're sure your logic is sound.
https://rpgmaker.net/games/7962/
Here, give this game a look.
Here, give this game a look.
Ramshackin makes a good point that you risk having a frustrating system if moods are hidden, but yeah, I definitely think there's some neat potential for risks n' rewards from trying to figure out enemy moods.
Strip away the thematic "shell" of "moods", and you got something that:
Mood swings
I don't know how concerned you are with being "logical", but something to consider: how to handle the mood swings?
Your variables go from 0 to 100 which is a wide range and gives you lots of room to slowly adjust them, but have distinct cutoff thresholds. it sounds like with enough of a push an enemy could go from nervous to confident very quickly, or that the difference between moods is like an "on/off" kind of switch rather than a gradual change. This can result in some pretty silly things and enemies tend to come off as rather unstable/SUPER emotional.
In free spirits, there were attempts to kiiind of address this by emphasizing the individual personality of ghosts. Regardless of their mood, they had consistent personality traits that showed up, in hopes that the sudden shifts between mood would be less jarring.
Intensity
Is aggressive 10 different from aggressive 90? Aggressive 100 might result in Berzerk, but does the amount of aggressive matter for values 67-99?
Here, I think you have the potential to treat mood as a resource. If the most important aspect of moods (for enemies) is that they change what skills that enemy has available... I dunno, I think there's cool potential in applying the same system to the player.
This would turn "moods" into what allowed player to use certain skills. It would also affect what damage they took from the enemy. Also, if certain moods are required to use certain skills, something like "apathy" or "indifference" would be useful sometimes, less useful others
The relationship between moods
Right now, moods vary on two axes... but what is the relationship between these? Can they mix at all?
If they can mix, is it something like the top part of the image? This would be a very granular approach, where perhaps some skills are locked/unlocked by an "and" or an "or"
Ex: The Braggart can Swagger when feeling a certain amount of aggression and confidence
Or would a "mixed mood" look something like the bottom part of the image, with the 2x2 table? Here, mixed moods would be distinct categories with their own criteria.
Ex: "mood 8" is "charisma", which is applied when someone has at least 50 in both confident and diplomatic
As you can see, this doubles the amount of moods to keep track of, which adds another layer of complexity and potential for headaches. But it's a thought!
Different people do different things in response to the same mood
It already sounds like you're thinking about this? I imagine an aggressive healer would act differently than an aggressive flunky or guardian, but mostly i want to emphasize this point because it's an excuse to talk about how fun + cool it is when things have distinct personality/themes/roles
EDPVincent brought up SMT, and there demons are sorted into different personality types. In some SMT games, personality has more gameplay baggage attached to it than others
I have no idea what your enemy AI is like or how feasible something like that would be to implement. At bare minimum, you could have moods influence the probability of an enemy using a particular skill, rather than focusing only on locking/unlocking skills with moods. (I think vanilla rpg maker does that?? I uh, haven't used default enemy AI in years. but i know you could get similar effects using events)
But... you run the risk for a lot of frustrating trial and error if there's too much variation in how different enemies act under different moods. If everyone had a unique reaction to Aggression, for instance, then learning that someone was Aggressive wouldn't actually tell you anything. You'd want to have general trends and then exceptions to these trends. (which you might already have???) If moods remain hidden until you figure it out, that would be another layer of potential frustration
Narrative implications
Obviously, emphasizes the importance of how Feelings influence Actions, emotions in general -- imo, great for showcasing character personality, to briefly return to "how someone reacts to a mood makes them seem more like an individual".
But also, a gameplay mechanic of deliberately trying to influence mood for the player's benefit suggests that the player is supposed to be manipulative, and is rewarded for acting like that. I guess if the context is violent combat, the implications of "wow, player is manipulating people huh" probably don't matter much.
Do either of these things matter for your story? they could, or maybe not
This is mostly food for thought and not too many suggestions. you know what's best for your gam, after all
Strip away the thematic "shell" of "moods", and you got something that:
- fills a role kind of like elemental strengths/weaknesses
- acts like various status effects (I mean, you even detail specific status effects moods can cause)
- could fill the role of buffs/debuffs (if you have moods influence stats)
- could potentially could fill the resource management role MP/TP tends to fill (if you applied this to the players -- see the point about intensity)
Mood swings
I don't know how concerned you are with being "logical", but something to consider: how to handle the mood swings?
Your variables go from 0 to 100 which is a wide range and gives you lots of room to slowly adjust them, but have distinct cutoff thresholds. it sounds like with enough of a push an enemy could go from nervous to confident very quickly, or that the difference between moods is like an "on/off" kind of switch rather than a gradual change. This can result in some pretty silly things and enemies tend to come off as rather unstable/SUPER emotional.
In free spirits, there were attempts to kiiind of address this by emphasizing the individual personality of ghosts. Regardless of their mood, they had consistent personality traits that showed up, in hopes that the sudden shifts between mood would be less jarring.
Intensity
Is aggressive 10 different from aggressive 90? Aggressive 100 might result in Berzerk, but does the amount of aggressive matter for values 67-99?
Here, I think you have the potential to treat mood as a resource. If the most important aspect of moods (for enemies) is that they change what skills that enemy has available... I dunno, I think there's cool potential in applying the same system to the player.
This would turn "moods" into what allowed player to use certain skills. It would also affect what damage they took from the enemy. Also, if certain moods are required to use certain skills, something like "apathy" or "indifference" would be useful sometimes, less useful others
The relationship between moods
Right now, moods vary on two axes... but what is the relationship between these? Can they mix at all?
If they can mix, is it something like the top part of the image? This would be a very granular approach, where perhaps some skills are locked/unlocked by an "and" or an "or"
Ex: The Braggart can Swagger when feeling a certain amount of aggression and confidence
Or would a "mixed mood" look something like the bottom part of the image, with the 2x2 table? Here, mixed moods would be distinct categories with their own criteria.
Ex: "mood 8" is "charisma", which is applied when someone has at least 50 in both confident and diplomatic
As you can see, this doubles the amount of moods to keep track of, which adds another layer of complexity and potential for headaches. But it's a thought!
Different people do different things in response to the same mood
It already sounds like you're thinking about this? I imagine an aggressive healer would act differently than an aggressive flunky or guardian, but mostly i want to emphasize this point because it's an excuse to talk about how fun + cool it is when things have distinct personality/themes/roles
EDPVincent brought up SMT, and there demons are sorted into different personality types. In some SMT games, personality has more gameplay baggage attached to it than others
I have no idea what your enemy AI is like or how feasible something like that would be to implement. At bare minimum, you could have moods influence the probability of an enemy using a particular skill, rather than focusing only on locking/unlocking skills with moods. (I think vanilla rpg maker does that?? I uh, haven't used default enemy AI in years. but i know you could get similar effects using events)
But... you run the risk for a lot of frustrating trial and error if there's too much variation in how different enemies act under different moods. If everyone had a unique reaction to Aggression, for instance, then learning that someone was Aggressive wouldn't actually tell you anything. You'd want to have general trends and then exceptions to these trends. (which you might already have???) If moods remain hidden until you figure it out, that would be another layer of potential frustration
Narrative implications
Obviously, emphasizes the importance of how Feelings influence Actions, emotions in general -- imo, great for showcasing character personality, to briefly return to "how someone reacts to a mood makes them seem more like an individual".
But also, a gameplay mechanic of deliberately trying to influence mood for the player's benefit suggests that the player is supposed to be manipulative, and is rewarded for acting like that. I guess if the context is violent combat, the implications of "wow, player is manipulating people huh" probably don't matter much.
Do either of these things matter for your story? they could, or maybe not
This is mostly food for thought and not too many suggestions. you know what's best for your gam, after all
Zephyr
1241
Like mentioned, don't make figuring out the enemy moods half the battle.
It sounds more interesting with in what ways you can exploit them.
But for some special enemies, perhaps add a Poker Face status if that is the intention of the battle.
It would make sense for this game mechanic to exist outside of battles as well if it plays such a central part.
It could affect the difficulty of reaching hidden extra-areas or prices with merchants.
If you have on-map encounters, then it makes sense for mood to affect the enemy movement if they are not strictly patrolling.
An obvious skill for a non-confident enemy would be to flee if that value starts to tip over.
It sounds more interesting with in what ways you can exploit them.
But for some special enemies, perhaps add a Poker Face status if that is the intention of the battle.
It would make sense for this game mechanic to exist outside of battles as well if it plays such a central part.
It could affect the difficulty of reaching hidden extra-areas or prices with merchants.
If you have on-map encounters, then it makes sense for mood to affect the enemy movement if they are not strictly patrolling.
An obvious skill for a non-confident enemy would be to flee if that value starts to tip over.
geri_khan
90
Thanks for the comments!
I guess something to say is that I don't intend for moods to be the be-all-and-end-all of the battle, but more something that can be taken advantage of by an observant player, or something that can be set up by the player to remove enemy actions they don't like, like taunts, heals and powerful attacks. Generally fights where moods are used should be easier and faster than just hitting Attack.
The player characters are adventurers busting into a fort to rescue a friend. They'll mostly be fighting soldiers etc so having every battle end with all enemies fleeing or giving up with no casualties feels a little ridiculous.
The whole mechanic stemmed from wanting to have something that would let me make Boast, which is a ridiculously in character skill for its owner, and a lot of the player characters' personalities come out of what social skills they have. This character is conniving and threatening, and can Intimidate and Humiliate. This character is the daughter of diplomats, and can Negotiate and Compliment... and so on.
EDPVincent: despite loving Persona, I've not really looked at other SMT games much and should probably fix that!
Ranshackin: I see what you're talking about. I am hoping that what I have so far will give the player enough clues without outright stating it. Here's some screens of what I mean...
(all art strictly temporary and borderline trolling, my co-creator doesn't want us revealing anything like that yet)
At the start of each round, a clue is stated about one random enemy's mood.
When an enemy uses a skill, an icon shows if it needs a mood. (in this case the orange up arrow is temporary icon for Confident) if a mood changes, an animation plays and a clue is given about the changed mood.
Starting to think the changed mood text should go in a popup over the character's head instead of the battlelog, like the skill name. It'd be more noticable.
Does this seem like enough for the player to track and figure out the moods?
Boast certainly is a powerful move and a player who wanted to exploit it certainly could in a lot of situations, but my intent is it's something an observant player can use to end the battle quickly, not something you have to spend many turns building towards. (unless someone wanted to do a MGS-style no-kill run? Which would be delightful)
pianotm: Thanks, I am definitely going to have to check Free Spirits out, it looks intriguing as all hell.
Pentagonbuddy: thanks for the huge post!
Since I want to communicate moods indirectly, I feel like I need cutoff points so I can have a point where I can tell the player, "ok, something's changed." That bit of feedback feels important to me. I do like what you say later about having having the intensity of a mood influence the probability of using its associated skills, and I think I could do that.
Here's how the Chanter is set up:
I'm sure I could find a way to scale that R value from 1 to 4 as the associated mood grows.
Related to mood-swinginess, you got me thinking about the question of how quickly a mood should change. Currently a skill that only affects a mood and does nothing else changes it by 34 points, shifting it in a single application. I like the immediacy but if the swinginess is going to come across as weird maybe I should change it.
Aggressive 10 is Diplomatic, but I know what you're asking. No, not currently.
You did give me an interesting idea though, specific enemy skills that get damage bonuses, state success bonuses, scale healing done etc based on how much of a mood the user has.
Not really convinced about giving moods to actors. If every actor's skill needed a mood, then at best with the way moods oppose each other an actor would only have access to half their skills at one time. Also I have a separate system for a MP-like resource.
As for Indifference, that would be Neutral, 34-65, the middle part of the chart.
It's the top one. Dealing with eight moods when you can only directly influence four seems like a bit much to me. But I can totally have skills that depend on two moods, like your Swagger suggestion.
There are some general rules - such as enemies who taunt lose it when Nervous, enemies who heal are less effective when Aggressive, enemies who cast offensive magic are more likely to shield allies when Diplomatic, everyone becomes better at what they do when Confident. But there's room for variation: say a specific healer gains Holy when Aggressive, a Diplomatic swordsman knows enough field medicine to drag a KOd ally to their feet, a fancy mage starts showing off and becomes a liability when Confident.
Regarding frustration, I haven't entirely decided if I'll have random battles or fixed map ones, but either way there'll be a fixed encounter order in each area that introduces new enemies and lets the player experiment with them and find their gimmics before ramping up the complexity with more dangerous combinations.
... one thing I need to think about how to convey is that an enemy is immune to a specific mood.
Huh, moods don't really fit in thematically, at least not right now. Moods and social skills were a way to show the actors personalities in battle. But I'll have a talk with my co-author, who is handling most of the script, on the subject.
Thank you, it's been very useful!
Zephyr - The Poker Face status is interesting! Even if I do keep the moods hidden, I can change the clue given to "Enemy has a sublime poker face" or something.
very good point, currently moods are randomly assigned at start of battle within parameters (for example the Guardian's starting Confidence is 40-100, she will never start the battle Nervous) but having ambushes start the enemy as Aggressive would make sense.
Thanks for your help everyone, it's been great!
I guess something to say is that I don't intend for moods to be the be-all-and-end-all of the battle, but more something that can be taken advantage of by an observant player, or something that can be set up by the player to remove enemy actions they don't like, like taunts, heals and powerful attacks. Generally fights where moods are used should be easier and faster than just hitting Attack.
The player characters are adventurers busting into a fort to rescue a friend. They'll mostly be fighting soldiers etc so having every battle end with all enemies fleeing or giving up with no casualties feels a little ridiculous.
The whole mechanic stemmed from wanting to have something that would let me make Boast, which is a ridiculously in character skill for its owner, and a lot of the player characters' personalities come out of what social skills they have. This character is conniving and threatening, and can Intimidate and Humiliate. This character is the daughter of diplomats, and can Negotiate and Compliment... and so on.
EDPVincent: despite loving Persona, I've not really looked at other SMT games much and should probably fix that!
Ranshackin: I see what you're talking about. I am hoping that what I have so far will give the player enough clues without outright stating it. Here's some screens of what I mean...
(all art strictly temporary and borderline trolling, my co-creator doesn't want us revealing anything like that yet)
At the start of each round, a clue is stated about one random enemy's mood.
When an enemy uses a skill, an icon shows if it needs a mood. (in this case the orange up arrow is temporary icon for Confident) if a mood changes, an animation plays and a clue is given about the changed mood.
Starting to think the changed mood text should go in a popup over the character's head instead of the battlelog, like the skill name. It'd be more noticable.
Does this seem like enough for the player to track and figure out the moods?
Boast certainly is a powerful move and a player who wanted to exploit it certainly could in a lot of situations, but my intent is it's something an observant player can use to end the battle quickly, not something you have to spend many turns building towards. (unless someone wanted to do a MGS-style no-kill run? Which would be delightful)
pianotm: Thanks, I am definitely going to have to check Free Spirits out, it looks intriguing as all hell.
Pentagonbuddy: thanks for the huge post!
author=PentagonBuddy
Your variables go from 0 to 100 which is a wide range and gives you lots of room to slowly adjust them, but have distinct cutoff thresholds. it sounds like with enough of a push an enemy could go from nervous to confident very quickly, or that the difference between moods is like an "on/off" kind of switch rather than a gradual change. This can result in some pretty silly things and enemies tend to come off as rather unstable/SUPER emotional.
Since I want to communicate moods indirectly, I feel like I need cutoff points so I can have a point where I can tell the player, "ok, something's changed." That bit of feedback feels important to me. I do like what you say later about having having the intensity of a mood influence the probability of using its associated skills, and I think I could do that.
Here's how the Chanter is set up:
I'm sure I could find a way to scale that R value from 1 to 4 as the associated mood grows.
Related to mood-swinginess, you got me thinking about the question of how quickly a mood should change. Currently a skill that only affects a mood and does nothing else changes it by 34 points, shifting it in a single application. I like the immediacy but if the swinginess is going to come across as weird maybe I should change it.
Is aggressive 10 different from aggressive 90? Aggressive 100 might result in Berzerk, but does the amount of aggressive matter for values 67-99?
Aggressive 10 is Diplomatic, but I know what you're asking. No, not currently.
You did give me an interesting idea though, specific enemy skills that get damage bonuses, state success bonuses, scale healing done etc based on how much of a mood the user has.
Not really convinced about giving moods to actors. If every actor's skill needed a mood, then at best with the way moods oppose each other an actor would only have access to half their skills at one time. Also I have a separate system for a MP-like resource.
As for Indifference, that would be Neutral, 34-65, the middle part of the chart.
If they can mix, is it something like the top part of the image? This would be a very granular approach, where perhaps some skills are locked/unlocked by an "and" or an "or"
It's the top one. Dealing with eight moods when you can only directly influence four seems like a bit much to me. But I can totally have skills that depend on two moods, like your Swagger suggestion.
But... you run the risk for a lot of frustrating trial and error if there's too much variation in how different enemies act under different moods. If everyone had a unique reaction to Aggression, for instance, then learning that someone was Aggressive wouldn't actually tell you anything. You'd want to have general trends and then exceptions to these trends. (which you might already have???) If moods remain hidden until you figure it out, that would be another layer of potential frustration
There are some general rules - such as enemies who taunt lose it when Nervous, enemies who heal are less effective when Aggressive, enemies who cast offensive magic are more likely to shield allies when Diplomatic, everyone becomes better at what they do when Confident. But there's room for variation: say a specific healer gains Holy when Aggressive, a Diplomatic swordsman knows enough field medicine to drag a KOd ally to their feet, a fancy mage starts showing off and becomes a liability when Confident.
Regarding frustration, I haven't entirely decided if I'll have random battles or fixed map ones, but either way there'll be a fixed encounter order in each area that introduces new enemies and lets the player experiment with them and find their gimmics before ramping up the complexity with more dangerous combinations.
... one thing I need to think about how to convey is that an enemy is immune to a specific mood.
Narrative implications
Huh, moods don't really fit in thematically, at least not right now. Moods and social skills were a way to show the actors personalities in battle. But I'll have a talk with my co-author, who is handling most of the script, on the subject.
This is mostly food for thought and not too many suggestions. you know what's best for your gam, after all
Thank you, it's been very useful!
Zephyr - The Poker Face status is interesting! Even if I do keep the moods hidden, I can change the clue given to "Enemy has a sublime poker face" or something.
If you have on-map encounters, then it makes sense for mood to affect the enemy movement if they are not strictly patrolling.
very good point, currently moods are randomly assigned at start of battle within parameters (for example the Guardian's starting Confidence is 40-100, she will never start the battle Nervous) but having ambushes start the enemy as Aggressive would make sense.
Thanks for your help everyone, it's been great!
It seems a little counter-intuitive to have this system only apply to your opponents. There might be some clever, simple ways you can apply it to the hero party that also help the player understand how the system works. You just need to include ways for the player to modify the moods of their party members. Like, maybe an enemy uses a skill that demoralizes one of the heroes, but another hero can use a skill to remove that debuff. Perhaps offensive characters could rile each other up for higher damage, or unlock their own skills they can only use while pumped. Maybe even reaching the peaks of the moods can provide sustained benefits, or one special skill that subsides the mood when used. You have potential for some interesting dynamics here!
Ah, side course instead of main dish!
Yeah, the specific cutoff point is extra good with indirect communication for moods. Just cuts out some of the guesswork on the player's end. In free spirits all the mood stuff was binary off/on kind of thing (I keep mentioning this game b/c i was one of the devs who focused on implementing gameplay, not b/c it's the Best Example of moods in games or anything)
Here's some talk about how the moods and AI in free spirits worked. It's long and only semi-relevant, and will probably not make much sense unless you've played.
Enemy AI uses this script with some modifications. The general idea is that enemies have specific probabilities of using a skill, and these change based on circumstances.
Ex:
---Magic Trick---
<Skill_Use_AI: 41>
Require: !u.has_states?(8..10, false)
Select_Random: 1
Require: rand < 0.30
</skill_use_AI>
By default, this skill has a 30% chance of happening, but only if the user is not sad, angry, or frightened.
---Magic Trick - Topic 5---
<Skill_Use_AI: 41>
Require: !u.has_states?(8..10, false)
Required_Switch: 27, On
Require: rand < 0.70
Select_Random: 1
</skill_use_AI>
However, if switch 27, "favor card trick" is on (which is one possible magic trick out of several), the probability jumps up to 70%, and the previous restrictions still apply.
One more example:
---Comedy Act---
<Skill_Use_AI: 44>
Require: !u.has_states?(8..10, false)
Require: u.state?(11)
Select_First
Require: rand < 0.60
</skill_use_AI>
This requires that the user is jolly and... I don't remember why I specified that they can't have fear/anger/fright since you can only have 1 mood state at a time. Anyways!
---Bad Joke C. Act---
<Skill_Use_AI: 44>
Require: !u.state?(9)
Require: u.state?(21)
Select_First
Require: rand < 0.45
</skill_use_AI>
If the user is NOT jolly, but has a different state (bad joke), this triggers the same skill but with a minor variation.
You can't implement this kind of thing without the specific script used, BUT I hope knowing the underlying idea/how it works might give you more food for thought. I don't know what kinds of AI scripts are available for MV, if you know how to code, or are working with someone who codes.
Because the majority of skills were tied to common events, I had a lot of flexibility in how they worked. If you have a large number of skills you probably don't want each one to trigger a common event!
Here's some examples of ways common events were used for skills:
Forcing enemies to use a specific skill without the "force action" command (honestly, main reason i avoided that is b/c it never seemed to work how i wanted, which says more about my competence with said command more than anything else)
This is super obvious, I'm sure, but it's a non-scripting way you could have a bit more control over skill probabilities by using variables + switches in common events. (When switch #13 is on, if the requirements are met then the probability of using show stopper is 100%)
With a bit of scripting, you can get even more fine-grained control. Don't remember why I didn't just use the "script" option from the change variable command, but w/e. I don't know enough about the actual code for MV's default rate system, but you could probably adjust specific bits through minor chunks of the scripting command.
Also note that I could get away with referencing enemies in such a vague way through common events because there was only ever 1 enemy in an encounter. You'd want to focus on troop events, most likely. And this particular screencap shows stuff from an unfinished system you never see in-game
Common event 56: (R) M. Trick shows using an event to basically uh, have its own process for selecting a target and carrying out different effects. This is another way the "favor card trick" switch is used, in addition to adjusting the probability that "magic trick" will be used. The comment in the event explains why, and I know you can set "switch" as the option for setting a rating in individual enemy settings.
More a general note, but if you don't already do it, I highly recommend having "sorting" type events if you've got some complex evented systems. Comment event 27: Sort Convo shows an example of that, as does 12: Comfort.
I realize you didn't ask about any of this stuff, but if you play the game for study purposes, I figure it couldn't hurt to explain some of how things were handled. Also apologies in general if I come off as patronizing, I just have no clue how familliar you are with RM or anything and tend to err on the side of over-explaining
I second halibabica's point that there's potential for some cool dynamics/interactions between party members BUT yeah, if it's not the focus of battles I don't think you'd want it to limit a large number of skills, if any. You outline some general rules, and I personally like when "general" type rules apply to both enemy and player.
Like, if aggression makes a healer less effective at healing, but could potentially grant them a skill, it might be an interesting choice to think about "do I keep my healer diplomatic so they can focus on healing, or is this a battle where I want to go all-out?"
If you use any of the scaling effects you mention, rather than only "can you use this skill? yes/no", there's more potential to apply it to the player in smaller ways, or ways that don't feel punishing
Since I want to communicate moods indirectly, I feel like I need cutoff points so I can have a point where I can tell the player, "ok, something's changed." That bit of feedback feels important to me. I do like what you say later about having having the intensity of a mood influence the probability of using its associated skills, and I think I could do that.
Yeah, the specific cutoff point is extra good with indirect communication for moods. Just cuts out some of the guesswork on the player's end. In free spirits all the mood stuff was binary off/on kind of thing (I keep mentioning this game b/c i was one of the devs who focused on implementing gameplay, not b/c it's the Best Example of moods in games or anything)
Here's some talk about how the moods and AI in free spirits worked. It's long and only semi-relevant, and will probably not make much sense unless you've played.
Enemy AI uses this script with some modifications. The general idea is that enemies have specific probabilities of using a skill, and these change based on circumstances.
Ex:
---Magic Trick---
<Skill_Use_AI: 41>
Require: !u.has_states?(8..10, false)
Select_Random: 1
Require: rand < 0.30
</skill_use_AI>
By default, this skill has a 30% chance of happening, but only if the user is not sad, angry, or frightened.
---Magic Trick - Topic 5---
<Skill_Use_AI: 41>
Require: !u.has_states?(8..10, false)
Required_Switch: 27, On
Require: rand < 0.70
Select_Random: 1
</skill_use_AI>
However, if switch 27, "favor card trick" is on (which is one possible magic trick out of several), the probability jumps up to 70%, and the previous restrictions still apply.
One more example:
---Comedy Act---
<Skill_Use_AI: 44>
Require: !u.has_states?(8..10, false)
Require: u.state?(11)
Select_First
Require: rand < 0.60
</skill_use_AI>
This requires that the user is jolly and... I don't remember why I specified that they can't have fear/anger/fright since you can only have 1 mood state at a time. Anyways!
---Bad Joke C. Act---
<Skill_Use_AI: 44>
Require: !u.state?(9)
Require: u.state?(21)
Select_First
Require: rand < 0.45
</skill_use_AI>
If the user is NOT jolly, but has a different state (bad joke), this triggers the same skill but with a minor variation.
You can't implement this kind of thing without the specific script used, BUT I hope knowing the underlying idea/how it works might give you more food for thought. I don't know what kinds of AI scripts are available for MV, if you know how to code, or are working with someone who codes.
Because the majority of skills were tied to common events, I had a lot of flexibility in how they worked. If you have a large number of skills you probably don't want each one to trigger a common event!
Here's some examples of ways common events were used for skills:
Forcing enemies to use a specific skill without the "force action" command (honestly, main reason i avoided that is b/c it never seemed to work how i wanted, which says more about my competence with said command more than anything else)
This is super obvious, I'm sure, but it's a non-scripting way you could have a bit more control over skill probabilities by using variables + switches in common events. (When switch #13 is on, if the requirements are met then the probability of using show stopper is 100%)
With a bit of scripting, you can get even more fine-grained control. Don't remember why I didn't just use the "script" option from the change variable command, but w/e. I don't know enough about the actual code for MV's default rate system, but you could probably adjust specific bits through minor chunks of the scripting command.
Also note that I could get away with referencing enemies in such a vague way through common events because there was only ever 1 enemy in an encounter. You'd want to focus on troop events, most likely. And this particular screencap shows stuff from an unfinished system you never see in-game
Common event 56: (R) M. Trick shows using an event to basically uh, have its own process for selecting a target and carrying out different effects. This is another way the "favor card trick" switch is used, in addition to adjusting the probability that "magic trick" will be used. The comment in the event explains why, and I know you can set "switch" as the option for setting a rating in individual enemy settings.
More a general note, but if you don't already do it, I highly recommend having "sorting" type events if you've got some complex evented systems. Comment event 27: Sort Convo shows an example of that, as does 12: Comfort.
I realize you didn't ask about any of this stuff, but if you play the game for study purposes, I figure it couldn't hurt to explain some of how things were handled. Also apologies in general if I come off as patronizing, I just have no clue how familliar you are with RM or anything and tend to err on the side of over-explaining
Not really convinced about giving moods to actors. If every actor's skill needed a mood, then at best with the way moods oppose each other an actor would only have access to half their skills at one time. Also I have a separate system for a MP-like resource.
I second halibabica's point that there's potential for some cool dynamics/interactions between party members BUT yeah, if it's not the focus of battles I don't think you'd want it to limit a large number of skills, if any. You outline some general rules, and I personally like when "general" type rules apply to both enemy and player.
Like, if aggression makes a healer less effective at healing, but could potentially grant them a skill, it might be an interesting choice to think about "do I keep my healer diplomatic so they can focus on healing, or is this a battle where I want to go all-out?"
If you use any of the scaling effects you mention, rather than only "can you use this skill? yes/no", there's more potential to apply it to the player in smaller ways, or ways that don't feel punishing
geri_khan
90
I have been doing some thinking about applying moods to actors since halibabica's post. I think I can see a couple of ways.
WAY A
When you're talking about sealing abilities, you're talking about the classic Silence state, right? So something like that...
Aggressive seals defensive skills (heals, buffs)
Diplomatic seals damaging skills
Nervous seals social skills (EDIT: terrible idea, sealing the skills that change moods makes it difficult to change moods and unseal the skills)
Confident seals... um... coming back to it...
And add in stat boosts!
Aggressive boosts damage
Diplomatic boosts healing
Nervous boosts evasion
Confident boosts... uh, I guess Defence is left?
So you have a motivation to let some of your skills be locked away in exchange for stat boosts, but... what does Confident do? For enemies where being confident is a liability it's "enemies may get overconfident and start wasting actions sneering" but I don't want to hand a players characters an idiot ball.
That and there are some obviously right choices here. No reason not to have the healer Diplomatic and the barbarian Aggressive. So maybe the other way is to embrace that...
WAY B
Each player character has a "favorite mood" that enables their ultimate technique. Being out of it does nothing, or brings penalties. Enemies can try to bring them out of it and players need to try to keep them in it.
But this doesn't have much effect if the ultimate skill is unavailable anyway, as it would be often during the early game.
WAY C
So alternately maybe there's a mood that helps boost their regular skills, and then a powerful skill unlocked by the opposing mood, so they have to choose.
mmmm I dunno. I'll keep an open mind and keep thinking about this.
That's OK. For the record, I'm the type of person who's spent much more time lately staring at javascript files than I have in the map editor and database combined. But I have been messing about with this thing occasionally since RM2K was new, just never really done anything serious with it.
I still can't get used to autotiles. What even is this.
WAY A
When you're talking about sealing abilities, you're talking about the classic Silence state, right? So something like that...
Aggressive seals defensive skills (heals, buffs)
Diplomatic seals damaging skills
Nervous seals social skills (EDIT: terrible idea, sealing the skills that change moods makes it difficult to change moods and unseal the skills)
Confident seals... um... coming back to it...
And add in stat boosts!
Aggressive boosts damage
Diplomatic boosts healing
Nervous boosts evasion
Confident boosts... uh, I guess Defence is left?
So you have a motivation to let some of your skills be locked away in exchange for stat boosts, but... what does Confident do? For enemies where being confident is a liability it's "enemies may get overconfident and start wasting actions sneering" but I don't want to hand a players characters an idiot ball.
That and there are some obviously right choices here. No reason not to have the healer Diplomatic and the barbarian Aggressive. So maybe the other way is to embrace that...
WAY B
Each player character has a "favorite mood" that enables their ultimate technique. Being out of it does nothing, or brings penalties. Enemies can try to bring them out of it and players need to try to keep them in it.
But this doesn't have much effect if the ultimate skill is unavailable anyway, as it would be often during the early game.
WAY C
So alternately maybe there's a mood that helps boost their regular skills, and then a powerful skill unlocked by the opposing mood, so they have to choose.
mmmm I dunno. I'll keep an open mind and keep thinking about this.
PentagonBuddy
Also apologies in general if I come off as patronizing, I just have no clue how familliar you are with RM or anything and tend to err on the side of over-explaining
That's OK. For the record, I'm the type of person who's spent much more time lately staring at javascript files than I have in the map editor and database combined. But I have been messing about with this thing occasionally since RM2K was new, just never really done anything serious with it.
I still can't get used to autotiles. What even is this.
Ramshackin
1462
I recommend checking out the excellent rouge-like Renowned Explores.
The combat is entirely mood based:
http://renownedexplorers.gamepedia.com/Mood
http://renownedexplorers.gamepedia.com/Attitude
Every player and enemy has an attitude, like confident or terrified, and the player/enemy parties as a whole have a mood, like friendly or devious, which cause battle-wide effects. In the game it's perfectly valid to defeat an enemy by convincing them your side is right, or insulting them until they feel frustrated and leave.
Side thought - have you considered renaming Nervous to Cautious? Aggressive and Diplomatic are equally valid, but often opposite solutions. With Nervous and Confident, it just seems like Confident is better.
The combat is entirely mood based:
http://renownedexplorers.gamepedia.com/Mood
http://renownedexplorers.gamepedia.com/Attitude
Every player and enemy has an attitude, like confident or terrified, and the player/enemy parties as a whole have a mood, like friendly or devious, which cause battle-wide effects. In the game it's perfectly valid to defeat an enemy by convincing them your side is right, or insulting them until they feel frustrated and leave.
author=geri_khan
Aggressive boosts damage
Diplomatic boosts healing
Nervous boosts evasion
Confident boosts... uh, I guess Defence is left?
Side thought - have you considered renaming Nervous to Cautious? Aggressive and Diplomatic are equally valid, but often opposite solutions. With Nervous and Confident, it just seems like Confident is better.
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