[POLL] SHOULD YUME NIKKI FAN GAMES BE THEIR OWN GENRE?

Poll

Should Yume Nikki fan games be their own genre? - Results

yoop
12
32%
noop
25
67%

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Typically, a fan game uses the characters, settings, ect. from another game and expands upon it. However Yume Nikki is a bit of a special case. For the most part, Yume Nikki fan games don't use the characters, or the settings. instead they use the formula, and build a completely unrelated game off of it. This sounds more like a genre rather than a fan game. Except for the fact that they're usually games made by fans, but who needs technicalities? We don't call rogue-likes rogue fan games. Should Yume-like be a genre?

Whatever we call them doesn't really have any impact on what they are, so in the end this is a bit of a useless question, but I'm still curious to what people think.
Usually game genre are a little weird and describe more of the gameplay mechanics and conventions, rather than the tone or mood.

As such, totally. It's been used and it will be used, as it is a very free-for-all open exploration type of game. And while I liked some, the no-guideline-at-all makes it tricky and not for everyone (like me! : D)

And you raise a good point, but I don't think that makes them fangames. It's like explaining what a jrpg is to people by saying "something like Final Fantasy".
It can be confusing to those who don't know tho.
But it's common to use very popular games as a degree of measurement and having a quick overview - like Monster Hunter-type of games.
That's a completely common term to use, and also a game series. It's a little more straightforward in its name, but stil.
(how star wars, lord of the rings n stuff set a lot of standards. we see undertale comparisons everywhere, and dark souls too .. for better and worse.)
Sooz
They told me I was mad when I said I was going to create a spidertable. Who’s laughing now!!!
5354
Doesn't YN style gameplay fall under the "Walking Simulator" genre already?
author=Sooz
Doesn't YN style gameplay fall under the "Walking Simulator" genre already?


No, there's a bit more too it than that. It has it's own specific game play elements exclusive to itself. Typically a YM game consists of a starting room, a hub world that leads to different worlds, different effects in each world with their own abilities and aesthetics, ect. It has enough of it's own stuff to define it from walking simulators, where you can easily say "yeah it's a YM game" without having to look at the title.
I always thought Yume Nikki fangames just got lumped into RM Horror. Then again, a lot of stuff does.

Maybe "RM Exploration" would be a better term.
InfectionFiles
the world ends in whatever my makerscore currently is
4622
Surreal often gets lumped in with Horror, and sometimes it is fitting and others not. Really alot gets lumped in with Horror
author=Pancaek
author=Sooz
Doesn't YN style gameplay fall under the "Walking Simulator" genre already?
No, there's a bit more too it than that. It has it's own specific game play elements exclusive to itself. Typically a YM game consists of a starting room, a hub world that leads to different worlds, different effects in each world with their own abilities and aesthetics, ect. It has enough of it's own stuff to define it from walking simulators, where you can easily say "yeah it's a YM game" without having to look at the title.


I don't think that's a solid analysis for a genre. The question for a genre usually is "what do you generally do throughout the whole game?" are you shooting things? managing things? jumping a lot? building things? wandering through things? A lot of things generally get coined through mainstream trends and popularity so much so that Doom-clone became the stand in for FPS before FPS was broadly coined.

Now doom clones are just games made in the Doom engine or similar style. YN-clone/fangame is apt unless it becomes super popular and nuanced to the point of generations growing up on non-YN games just like how CoD fans today probably didn't grow up on Doom. But we're talking about a mass cultural shift here. Most people are going to say "what the fuck is YN?"
author=Darken
I don't think that's a solid analysis for a genre. The question for a genre usually is "what do you generally do throughout the whole game?" are you shooting things? managing things? jumping a lot? building things? wandering through things?


I disagree. A genre isn't defined by what you're doing, it' defined by the mechanics of how you're doing it. In third person shooters and FPS games, you're shooting things. The differences are the mechanics and how they're presented.

author=Darken
But we're talking about a mass cultural shift here. Most people are going to say "what the fuck is YN?"


People are going to ask that question whether you call them YM fan games or YM-likes.

Red_Nova
Sir Redd of Novus: He who made Prayer of the Faithless that one time, and that was pretty dang rad! :D
9192
author=Pancaek
author=Darken
I don't think that's a solid analysis for a genre. The question for a genre usually is "what do you generally do throughout the whole game?" are you shooting things? managing things? jumping a lot? building things? wandering through things?
I disagree. A genre isn't defined by what you're doing, it' defined by the mechanics of how you're doing it. In third person shooters and FPS games, you're shooting things. The differences are the mechanics and how they're presented.

A genre is defined by WHAT you're doing. HOW you're doing it is classed as a sub genre. Both third and first person shooters are both the shooter sub genre because a camera model does not change either the what nor the how, but they both would fall under the Action genre because they typically require some form of physical exertion from the player; quick reflexes, hand-eye coordination, etc.

In the case of Yume Nikki and its fan games, I'd call the genre Adventure. If the core of the game is wandering around and looking at stuff, that's the Adventure genre. The best examples I can think of right now Kings Quest and I Have No Mouth and I Must Scream.

author=Pancaek
No, there's a bit more too it than that. It has it's own specific game play elements exclusive to itself. Typically a YM game consists of a starting room, a hub world that leads to different worlds, different effects in each world with their own abilities and aesthetics, ect. It has enough of it's own stuff to define it from walking simulators, where you can easily say "yeah it's a YM game" without having to look at the title.

This sounds like a level structure, not a genre.


EDIT:

As for the original question: No, I would not classify Yume Nikki fan-games as their own genre. They all look like Adventure games to me, so that's what I would call them.
Sooz
They told me I was mad when I said I was going to create a spidertable. Who’s laughing now!!!
5354
Honestly I don't feel like YN fits well in the "horror" genre; there's a lot of horror IN it, but it doesn't really try to BE horror. Some of the fangames may be closer to that label; I haven't tried any so I wouldn't know.

author=Red_Nova
As for the original question: No, I would not classify Yume Nikki fan-games as their own genre. They all look like Adventure games to me, so that's what I would call them.


Yeah, "adventure" was the first thing that came to mind for me as well. I didn't bring it up only because I'm not sure anymore which definition applies anymore: stuff like Day of the Tentacle and the Chzo Mythos series? the Legends of Zelda? Whatever the heck is going on in those Fallout and Tomb Raider things the kids are into these days?

We really need to tighten up our genre definitions.

But yeah, the general gameplay element of "explore, pick up item, use item to open new area, repeat" fits quite snugly into the old adventure genre.

author=Pancaek
No, there's a bit more too it than that. It has it's own specific game play elements exclusive to itself. Typically a YM game consists of a starting room, a hub world that leads to different worlds, different effects in each world with their own abilities and aesthetics, ect. It has enough of it's own stuff to define it from walking simulators, where you can easily say "yeah it's a YM game" without having to look at the title.


The concept of hub world and effects really isn't enough to distinguish it from any other video game; heck, you've basically described Paper Mario: the Thousand Year Door.

author=Darken
I don't think that's a solid analysis for a genre. The question for a genre usually is "what do you generally do throughout the whole game?"


author=Pancaek
I disagree. A genre isn't defined by what you're doing, it' defined by the mechanics of how you're doing it. In third person shooters and FPS games, you're shooting things. The differences are the mechanics and how they're presented.


It's a bit of both; there's also the question of narrative tropes and storytelling style, as well as (in many cases, at least) some question of setting and aesthetics. Again, genres in video games are rather loosely defined, mainly because the medium is still a tiny little baby.

author=Darken
But we're talking about a mass cultural shift here. Most people are going to say "what the fuck is YN?"
People are going to ask that question whether you call them YM fan games or YM-likes.


In that case, it's not really good for defining its own genre.
i think its a branch. It definitely deserves its own definition, be it as a genre, sub-genre, sub-sub-genre, sub-genre branch or whatever, it definitely is a phenomenon that has been instanced enough to deserve its own classification.
Sooz
They told me I was mad when I said I was going to create a spidertable. Who’s laughing now!!!
5354
It has a classification: "Yume Nikki fangame"
InfectionFiles
the world ends in whatever my makerscore currently is
4622
author=Sooz
It has a classification: "Yume Nikki fangame"
author=Sooz
It has a classification: "Yume Nikki fangame"


Sure, but that classification isn't really fitting. Someone who isn't a fan of Yume Nikki could make a game with the same structure. Yume Nikki fan games aren't usually connected to the original game, they borrow the formula, which anyone can do without being a fan of the original.
Well I feel it was pretty natural for Yumi Nikki-type of games to be adventure ones, haha, didn't really mention.
I do think they make for a good sub-genre tho, as they follow a very specific type of open layout. (aka confusing as fuck cluster of infinitely long rooms lol)

author=JosephSeraph
i think its a branch. It definitely deserves its own definition, be it as a genre, sub-genre, sub-sub-genre, sub-genre branch or whatever, it definitely is a phenomenon that has been instanced enough to deserve its own classification.
Sooz
They told me I was mad when I said I was going to create a spidertable. Who’s laughing now!!!
5354
I mean yes, there's a formula, but unless there's something I'm missing, that's all, and it's such a basic formula that it could apply to a large variety of game styles. If it's anything, it's the same thing as several action-adventure games of the 90s/early 00s, just with substantially less action or plot.

As unhelpful as the label is these days, I think "adventure" is the most appropriate genre descriptor. Maybe hybrid "adventure/walking simulator."
Ebeth
always up for cute art and spicy gay romance
4390
While I'm a pretentious Yume Nikki fan sometimes (I looooooooove YN) and like to say that its it own unique genre- if you boil YN down its a pixel game about collection and exploration. I'd probably classify it as a surreal exploration walking sim game.

I think using the term Yume Nikki Fan-game as a sub-genre is totally a thing though. YNFG's might still be classified broadly as surreal exploration walking sims, but to further clarify what elements they might contain (effects, nexus, exploring dreams ect) simply calling them YNFG is enough of a genre classification already for me.

Also it seems that pixel horror has died down a bit on tumblr and YNFGs & Rpgs are becoming more popular again, which I think is neat! There's even going to be a YNFG jam over on itchio!
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
5958
This is like asking if Furry Hitler Porn should be a genre of porn.

No. It shouldn't.
author=LockeZ
This is like asking if Furry Hitler Porn should be a genre of porn.

No. It shouldn't.


...I wouldn't say that's a fair comparison.
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
5958
They're about equally awful. They should not be allowed to proliferate until there are enough of them to qualify as a genre.
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