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[MAFIA] THE EXORCISM OF MAFIAVILLE (GAME OVER)
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Dudesoft
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CloseSo mathing further; if he ISN'T possessed, and IS the vessel, doesn't killing him still make us lose? I mean all hinged on an assumption he is a vessel. This is getting off track. I need to reread. Picking this up to peek at for five minutes throughout the day doesn't make me a thorough reader.
Wouldn't say squirming tbh. I gave more info when I realized that shinan could also be scum.
I think you need to understand that this is a game of limited information so it was actually more obfuscating to lay out my entire role than to just say, "I investigated psy and he's evil." And I mean, I kinda did investigate him. He and shinan are the only people I didn't have a read on (that's not dead). And I thought shinan was spoken for >.<
I think you need to understand that this is a game of limited information so it was actually more obfuscating to lay out my entire role than to just say, "I investigated psy and he's evil." And I mean, I kinda did investigate him. He and shinan are the only people I didn't have a read on (that's not dead). And I thought shinan was spoken for >.<
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
5958
author=Gourd_Clae
so, to be a little more transparent here, as the seer I get to ask any question with a yes or no answer. I can use "how many" etc as well to get a number.
on night 1 I asked:
Are any of:
Cap_H
oddRABBIT
Dudesoft
CAVE_DOG_IS_BACK
mafia?
I got: No
Night 2 I asked:
Is LockeZ mafia?
I got: No.
That left psy left who I technically didn't investigate, but he was the last one! Now I kinda wish I had read back because if cave's info isn't to be trusted, that means Shinan and psy are the two possible mafias. It's, uh, probably both of them but I figured I'd be very explicitly honest about this in case I was missing something.
Here's another thought. One of the people who wasn't scum on night 1 might be scum now. This would fit with psy's first idea:
author=psy_wombats
1. There's only one "scum," the destiny spirit. The current destiny spirit dies every night, and picks the next day's destiny spirit. All living and dead destiny spirits win if they manage to pick the vessel and survive. If the vessel ends up dead, then the game reverts to traditional mafia with 1 scum. It's possible that Gourd is telling the truth and Pazuzu is a liar.
If Gourd and Dudesoft are different, and Gourd is telling the truth, then this would mean that either Psy is scum or Dudesoft has become scum. Either by something similar to Psy's idea or maybe by a completely different method.
Right now Psy actually feels like town to me, because his theories today are actually pretty good. I'm getting absolutely no read off of Dudesoft, he just hasn't posted enough.
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
5958
So. I'm trying to figure out what the vessel is, and how the hell Ozzy could have been town. I thought my logic yesterday made sense. Obviously I made a bad assumption though.
Maybe the vessel is scum? I assumed that was impossible because Ozzy said scum has to find the vessel's identity, and scum would have a scumchat. Maybe the idea that there's a scumchat was my bad assumption? If there are only two scum, the vessel and the destiny spirit, and the destiny spirit's identity changes every day, then of course there wouldn't be a fucking scumchat.
Meanwhile if Psy's second idea is true - that there is a traditional scumteam who is trying to find the vessel - then we're back where we were yesterday. Which means not only must Gourd be lying, but also I still run into the same dilemma that made me think Ozzy was lying yesterday: I don't see how there can be a town role that does nothing but kill another townie. I guess in this scenario the vessel could also be some kind of extra scum member who just isn't in the chat. But if there's a scumchat, then it's pretty weird for one of the scum to not be in it. Also I don't understand why scum would kill Ebeth last night in this scenario.
The first scenario makes a lot more sense to me. It has similarities to the Lucifer role in the SMT mafia, which Pianotm said he was drawing inspiration from. It solves the problem with Ozzy's role. It explains why Ebeth died last night despite being the one person who was confirmed NOT to be the vessel. And it explains why Pianotm was okay with modkilling three people off the bat.
So, Pazuzu said on night 2 that Dudesoft and Gourd are "different." But I guess I shouldn't assume Gourd is telling the truth, he could be the one who was converted to scum and that would mean his entire list is bullshit. So that's a third option.
Maybe the vessel is scum? I assumed that was impossible because Ozzy said scum has to find the vessel's identity, and scum would have a scumchat. Maybe the idea that there's a scumchat was my bad assumption? If there are only two scum, the vessel and the destiny spirit, and the destiny spirit's identity changes every day, then of course there wouldn't be a fucking scumchat.
Meanwhile if Psy's second idea is true - that there is a traditional scumteam who is trying to find the vessel - then we're back where we were yesterday. Which means not only must Gourd be lying, but also I still run into the same dilemma that made me think Ozzy was lying yesterday: I don't see how there can be a town role that does nothing but kill another townie. I guess in this scenario the vessel could also be some kind of extra scum member who just isn't in the chat. But if there's a scumchat, then it's pretty weird for one of the scum to not be in it. Also I don't understand why scum would kill Ebeth last night in this scenario.
The first scenario makes a lot more sense to me. It has similarities to the Lucifer role in the SMT mafia, which Pianotm said he was drawing inspiration from. It solves the problem with Ozzy's role. It explains why Ebeth died last night despite being the one person who was confirmed NOT to be the vessel. And it explains why Pianotm was okay with modkilling three people off the bat.
So, Pazuzu said on night 2 that Dudesoft and Gourd are "different." But I guess I shouldn't assume Gourd is telling the truth, he could be the one who was converted to scum and that would mean his entire list is bullshit. So that's a third option.
Without trying to implicate myself here, I am going to postulate on your pondering.
What if there are 1 or 2 baddies without scumchat? This Pazuzu stuff seems to be some sort of nonsense. Like, if they are trying to find a Town/Indy Vessel, then I mean, couldn't that be solely Pazuzu's goal? Whoever is playing the 'main villain' could be the one who Possesses people, and in doing so, would kill them during night. Thus our Possessed dead so far. If he is searching for the Vessel, and he needs to scout it out using The Eye or whatever, then why would he need a scum chat? Having another mafia on your side whom you can't speak to, is that unheard of? It's like in the game Coop, where you know who your team mate is, but you can't communicate and have to work together.
What I'm kinda trying to get at is: People being 'turned bad' wouldn't work. Because Night 1 happens; death. Night 2 happens; death. Unless they made a pre-game possession, then no one on Day One was possessed/turned; and therefore the following days would be the same.
Also, with the number of players, having a recruiter would basically end the game next day anyway.
The only way to win is to kill a mafia (assuming there is at least 2).
Also, if I am reading correctly, and Gourd is claiming seer, then whoever looked us up and got Different, may refer to my Vanilla status.
...This doesn't make sense though. Why does Town need a Seer? The object of Mafia's game is to impregnate the Vessel, and/or beat Town vote-wise...
So if Gourd is Different, and a Seer, shouldn't that basically equal Mafia?
I am Vanilla Town. I doubt the "difference" between us is our roles. That would be useless info.
What if there are 1 or 2 baddies without scumchat? This Pazuzu stuff seems to be some sort of nonsense. Like, if they are trying to find a Town/Indy Vessel, then I mean, couldn't that be solely Pazuzu's goal? Whoever is playing the 'main villain' could be the one who Possesses people, and in doing so, would kill them during night. Thus our Possessed dead so far. If he is searching for the Vessel, and he needs to scout it out using The Eye or whatever, then why would he need a scum chat? Having another mafia on your side whom you can't speak to, is that unheard of? It's like in the game Coop, where you know who your team mate is, but you can't communicate and have to work together.
What I'm kinda trying to get at is: People being 'turned bad' wouldn't work. Because Night 1 happens; death. Night 2 happens; death. Unless they made a pre-game possession, then no one on Day One was possessed/turned; and therefore the following days would be the same.
Also, with the number of players, having a recruiter would basically end the game next day anyway.
The only way to win is to kill a mafia (assuming there is at least 2).
Also, if I am reading correctly, and Gourd is claiming seer, then whoever looked us up and got Different, may refer to my Vanilla status.
...This doesn't make sense though. Why does Town need a Seer? The object of Mafia's game is to impregnate the Vessel, and/or beat Town vote-wise...
So if Gourd is Different, and a Seer, shouldn't that basically equal Mafia?
I am Vanilla Town. I doubt the "difference" between us is our roles. That would be useless info.
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
5958
It sounds like Gourd can ask almost any yes or no question he wants. So suggesting that town has no use for that role is pretty silly.
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
5958
Dudesoft I don't get what you're saying about why the idea of people being turned bad wouldn't work.
The idea that there's a static member of scum who's killing people via possession and trying to find the right person is a possibility, except why kill Ebeth last night?
The idea that there's a static member of scum who's killing people via possession and trying to find the right person is a possibility, except why kill Ebeth last night?
Honestly, I assumed Pazuzu was evil and was using cave to steer us in the wrong direction.
I also don't think people are being converted to scum because it makes the game impossible to play. I doubt Jeroen/piano would even host a game like that.
Earlier I said my theory was that the people who were "possessed" were targeted because they were failed attempts by the mafia to find the vessel. Since they weren't the vessel they died. This would also explain the mafia's weird targets. They're trying to find the vessel! Not manipulate town or eliminate threats like a normal scum team would be doing.
I also don't think people are being converted to scum because it makes the game impossible to play. I doubt Jeroen/piano would even host a game like that.
Earlier I said my theory was that the people who were "possessed" were targeted because they were failed attempts by the mafia to find the vessel. Since they weren't the vessel they died. This would also explain the mafia's weird targets. They're trying to find the vessel! Not manipulate town or eliminate threats like a normal scum team would be doing.
I don't think the conversion idea works because it makes scum hunting too hard. With the addition of one head honcho doing the converting each night it seems more plasuible however I think my theory explains more.
psy_wombats
13315
Ebeth could've been killed because she was confirmed by Ozzy to not be the vessel. I don't understand why nightkills keep resulting in "POSSESSED" if this is a traditional nightkill -- I think it's a failed possession attempt. Whether that person was scum the day before or scum just failed to take over their body that night, dunno. It's starting to feel like it's a static scumteam.
@Gourd: I'd prefer to be playing a game with static sides, yeah, but I think it might make sense to have town with a zillion power roles if they don't know the rules and there's only one scum, trying to locate the other scum. Also in a static town setup, your results would basically indicate (to me anyway) that either you or shinan must be scum.
@LockeZ: I'd would be absolutely shocked if the vessel was town-aligned. Also, I hadn't considered a scenario where Dudesoft converted last night, which would be the only case where both Gourd and Pazuzu can be telling the truth.
@Dudesoft: If Gourd isn't actually seer, he's scum, that's all there is to it. Mafia that can't communicate is A Thing: https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Traitor. I think it would make sense to have a static, scum vessel in the possession setup and no actual scumchat. Instead of scumchat maybe they yell things at cave.
@Gourd: I'd prefer to be playing a game with static sides, yeah, but I think it might make sense to have town with a zillion power roles if they don't know the rules and there's only one scum, trying to locate the other scum. Also in a static town setup, your results would basically indicate (to me anyway) that either you or shinan must be scum.
@LockeZ: I'd would be absolutely shocked if the vessel was town-aligned. Also, I hadn't considered a scenario where Dudesoft converted last night, which would be the only case where both Gourd and Pazuzu can be telling the truth.
@Dudesoft: If Gourd isn't actually seer, he's scum, that's all there is to it. Mafia that can't communicate is A Thing: https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Traitor. I think it would make sense to have a static, scum vessel in the possession setup and no actual scumchat. Instead of scumchat maybe they yell things at cave.
psy_wombats
13315
Actually yeah @Cave do you think it's possible the Eye is scum? That's the only reason I can think of that they wouldn't claim.
Also, while gourd's ""seer"" stuff I guess doesn't 100% implicate him if he hasn't actually investigated me, I still think he's lying because he tried to bill it as being cop that investigated the (modconfirmed) odd.
Also, while gourd's ""seer"" stuff I guess doesn't 100% implicate him if he hasn't actually investigated me, I still think he's lying because he tried to bill it as being cop that investigated the (modconfirmed) odd.
yes, I do think that's possible.
if i had the ability to ask yes/no questions I would ask "how many scum are in the game"
if i had the ability to ask yes/no questions I would ask "how many scum are in the game"
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
5958
author=psy_wombatsThis would be kind of hilarious.
Instead of scumchat maybe they yell things at cave.
author=psy_wombats
Cap do you really think this is a traditional mafia game with a traditional scumteam? Versus weirdness happening with possession? If so, how do you explain the nightkill patterns?
The game is not traditional, but I think that it has traditional scum team of three. Possessions are obviously faction kills. I was thinking about demon being possibly traded with piano for 3 lurkers. More likely he was just town. Ebeth definitely looks like a good kill from scummy point of view.
Regarding Gourd's claim, I don't believe it. His info gives town too much. It's too much OP. And Shinan with Psy being only possible choices as scum? I know that traditional wolf team of three would need to score one more lynch. Gourd is now always on, if there's such a team.
#cancel
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
5958
So it sounds like Cavedog's power probably works exactly like the hat-wearing demon from the Shin Megami Tensei game, where he submits a post to the moderator, and gets told whether any of the people mentioned in that post are in a team with each-other.
This makes his requests for people to post lists of names on day 1 make way more sense. I wondered what the fuck was up with that.
But I guess it must also do something else? And give him other messages? Because if it were just that, then I don't know why he thinks Pazuzu is a player or that he could be receiving lies.
This makes his requests for people to post lists of names on day 1 make way more sense. I wondered what the fuck was up with that.
But I guess it must also do something else? And give him other messages? Because if it were just that, then I don't know why he thinks Pazuzu is a player or that he could be receiving lies.
author=CAVE_DOG_IS_BACK
yes, I do think that's possible.
if i had the ability to ask yes/no questions I would ask "how many scum are in the game"
The thought occurred to me to ask that, but I was hoping to get that answered indirectly via clearing everyone but the scumlords.
