RATINGS ON SCREENSHOTS

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This was an idea I've talked about with a few others here, for quite a while now. XD

I'm not sure how easily this could be implemented into RMN's code (although, we already have a general 5-Star rating system, so it doesn't seem too infeasible), but I think it'd be a great addition. On any given week, there are hundreds of screenshots/videos that get posted on RMN, most of which receive zero response. This trend makes the main site appear a bit useless, compared to its full potential. Unless the game is one of 100 or so that are "popular", it's largely ignored. If we want to encourage more user engagement outside of the screenshot topic, this could be a great/easy way to promote it.

I often think of NewGrounds, where they have a great rating system on all Videos/Artwork/Audio and media in general. In that way, all content on the front page is easily dictated by user interaction. We could have a "buzzing screenshot" section; or even if not, just a simple way to generate numerical feedback for developers here. Similarly, on YouTube, if you glance at the "Likes" for a video, you can (usually) get a reasonably good consensus on its quality.

While numerical ratings aren't as good as constructive text feedback, it's still better than nothing. If it's easy for users to do, I think people are much more likely to rate screenshots with a score rather than type out paragraph-length replies for 10 screenshots. If one screenshot were rated 50 times with a 4/5, that's arguably just as valuable as a comment or two, feedback-wise.

Anyhow, since our community is relatively small, I think it's important to do anything possible to continue promoting interaction on the main site as well as the forums. Similar to Keampfer's post about tagging users, this is a feature that seems like it could be easy to add, but could be a stepping stone to "modernize" RMN.

Any thoughts? Disagreements?
if a rating system for screenshots were implemented on RMN - because RMN's voting system doesn't determine, what remains on the site, it'd be more like imgur, where good screenshots float to the top through popularity and voting - this wouldn't hurt for RMN to have though, honestly. It will encourage more people to seek out "good" content on RMN and help promote good games, further.

This is actually a really good idea ❤. This is a great idea actually. I find that, there's a lot of great games, that I stumble across, while searching RMN's database, that I struggle to find otherwise cause a lot of them are hidden on RMN.

Having this new picture feature would draw these games out more, and give people more of a chance to see them, when they normally wouldn't.
Marrend
Guardian of the Description Thread
21781
author=Blindmind
Extra posts were a glitch. Please delete, mods. ¥___¥

Done and done!

*cha-ching!*
Screenshots by themselves are good way to hook someones attention to your game, if there was a system for this, I do see it as more of an exposure kinda thing.

That would definitely be helpful!
Marrend
Guardian of the Description Thread
21781
Hrm. Well, there is a way to set a screenshot as needing additional feedback, and would appear on this page. I'm pretty sure this makes the image not count as part of the three-image limit for the purposes of a gamepage. In fact, I think they don't appear on the gamepage at all, unless a user disables that option! I don't know if anybody disables the option after turning it on, outside of the few times I've done it myself.

I'm neither for nor against the idea, but, food for thought.
Sooz
They told me I was mad when I said I was going to create a spidertable. Who’s laughing now!!!
5354
I assumed this was about marking screenshots as like PG13 or something
author=Marrend
Hrm. Well, there is a way to set a screenshot as needing additional feedback, and would appear on this page. I'm pretty sure this makes the image not count as part of the three-image limit for the purposes of a gamepage. In fact, I think they don't appear on the gamepage at all, unless a user disables that option! I don't know if anybody disables the option after turning it on, outside of the few times I've done it myself.

I'm neither for nor against the idea, but, food for thought.

Interesting!

That seems like a useful page, and I have to admit I wasn't aware of it. It seems like not too many people are, though, since there are only 21 images displayed since last February.

What I was envisioning is something like Instagram, where people could seamlessly scroll through a page and easily rate each screenshot with a 1-5. It's quick, it's easy, and it could give the developer at least some idea how they're doing, visually, with their game... But on the other hand, maybe most people don't want their screens/videos rated, so.

There's also the issue of everything from the past not having a score, so it could be hard to weigh that stuff.
InfectionFiles
the world ends in whatever my makerscore currently is
4622
I feel it would be more troublesome than helpful :(
It seems like a good idea at face value, but... I think it's actually one step forward and two steps backward.
Here's the thing. The #1 seller for making people visit your gamepage are your screenshots. By adding a system to benefit games with great images, all you're doing is amplifying the already successful effect of them. That's not inherently bad, but their increased exposure is granted at the expense of everything else.

If anything, I'd be in favor of bringing back the Random Image category in a big way. I found a lot of gems that way, and the images didn't need to be beautiful to draw my attention. Sometimes it was just "Eh? What's that?" and I clicked it for a closer peak.
Sure, we have the one Random Image in the bottom right corner of the main page, but 9 times out of 10, it's nothing special. That's why having 10 was great. 1 out of 10 ain't bad :D
I like this idea because of the immediate feedback, but I think a generic "like" option might be a bit more fitting. 5-star rating systems work better for reviews, where some care has to be given and some rationale has to exist for the rating.

The problem with ascribing 5-star systems is that some people will view it as their duty to maintain a balanced approach where 5 is reserved for AMAZING SCREENSHOTS THAT ONLY APPEAR ONCE IN A LIFETIME and some people will rate everything they like a 5 and everything they don't like a 1. I feel like a lot of screenshots are going to have weird scores as a result.

You also run in to the problem of screenshots with 10 5-star votes being at the top of the list while screenshots with 99 5-star votes and 1 1-star vote being placed underneath it on any ranking.

There's a reason most sites use a "like" button; it allows for some feedback without being a great commitment, and it nips other rating-related problems in the bud. It shows users that 'hey, people are checking out my game!' without feeling bad that you have a couple anonymous 1-stars on a screenshot you thought was great with no explanation as to what they hated about it.

Dyhalto brushed against the other problem with the system, which is that games that already get a lot of traffic will, as a result of the greater number of ratings/likes/whatever be placed in an even more prominent position, possibly pushing aside lesser known games. I'm not sure how to get around that problem, as the idea of "viral" content is sort of paramount to the internet. Maybe a "recently liked" area for screenshots that have recently seen an uptick in activity, sort of like "buzzing"?

I do like random screenshots, too, though. Only problem is... it's random, and you might only ever get junk.
author=Dyhalto
It seems like a good idea at face value, but... I think it's actually one step forward and two steps backward.
Here's the thing. The #1 seller for making people visit your gamepage are your screenshots. By adding a system to benefit games with great images, all you're doing is amplifying the already successful effect of them. That's not inherently bad, but their increased exposure is granted at the expense of everything else.

If anything, I'd be in favor of bringing back the Random Image category in a big way. I found a lot of gems that way, and the images didn't need to be beautiful to draw my attention. Sometimes it was just "Eh? What's that?" and I clicked it for a closer peak.
Sure, we have the one Random Image in the bottom right corner of the main page, but 9 times out of 10, it's nothing special. That's why having 10 was great. 1 out of 10 ain't bad :D

...honestly, what it boils down to for me anyways is that, it's just another outlet for feedback - people are submitting images to RMN already; people sometimes get feedback, people sometimes don't get any feedback; adding a rating system to these screenshots is just another chance for people who are too tired to comment to on anything, to comment through a number.

It's been said numerous times before that, RMN is a community filled with lurkers, right? - sometimes they don't want to interact with our community, sometimes they just want to do so anonymously. This would give them the opportunity for them to do exactly that, to interact with the developer, in a positive way with the least amount effort.

…and it doesn't necessarily have to be a rating that's 1 out of 10. it could just be something as similar to a "Like" on Facebook or imgur. But getting that sort of acknowledgement across, will encourage that developer to pursue that idea further and perhaps form a better idea of how to present their game better, either through mapping, dialogue. etc.

Cause right now, whenever you upload an image to RMN - sometimes you get a comment, sometimes you get nothing at all - adding numbers to the mix is just another opportunity for more positive feedback.
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EDIT: Yes pretty much what kaempfer said: if this is implemented the right way, ideally, it should be similar to imgur, where you should be able to log into RMN and see a list of random screenshots, that have been recently voted on by the community, but every week when you logged in, it would always be different, it's never the same image.

…Like - getting people away from voting 5 on every single piece of submitted content and working the system and just getting people by the numbers to vote positively on recently submitted content in order to promote positive growth and interactivity within the community.
Marrend
Guardian of the Description Thread
21781
author=Blindmind
That seems like a useful page, and I have to admit I wasn't aware of it. It seems like not too many people are, though, since there are only 21 images displayed since last February.

I can almost guarantee there are more than 21 images marked as "please give feedback", but, the page currently does not support showing more than the most recent 21 images marked as such.

*Edit: I think the comment section of that page has a certain time-frame to it as well, but, I'm not sure what that time-frame is.
Corfaisus
"It's frustrating because - as much as Corf is otherwise an irredeemable person - his 2k/3 mapping is on point." ~ psy_wombats
7874
The base problem here is that comments are pretty indicative of the community's investment in any particular project. Adding a rating system is just adding a secondary comments box. If it didn't happen before, it won't happen now. This creates a workload for the site's code monkeys that ultimately goes nowhere.
author=Corfaisus
The base problem here is that comments are pretty indicative of the community's investment in any particular project. Adding a rating system is just adding a secondary comments box. If it didn't happen before, it won't happen now. This creates a workload for the site's code monkeys that ultimately goes nowhere.

Except the briefest of forays onto any social media platform will show this to be demonstrably wrong. For every five "thumbs ups" on a YouTube video there is one comment. For every ten "likes" on a Facebook post there is one comment. For every twenty "faves" on Instagram there is one comment. For every hundred on Twitter... well, you hopefully get the idea. Lots of people don't want to comment 'nice' on every screenshot they think is nice, so they look at it, internalize their approval, and move on. Sometimes you just want to give someone a nod without saying anything.
InfectionFiles
the world ends in whatever my makerscore currently is
4622
Christ, can we not yet again cut down the need to comment/talk on the forums? We don't need another fucking Twitter or instagram.

This is really just a bad idea and not needed. Like fuck, just type "nice" if that's what you wanna say. It's not hard. At all.
If you're not gonna do it then you're not gonna do it. If you are you are. Saying that a Like system would make things better or easier is naive. We are gonna find ourselves in a Wall-E situation with this line of thought. Just fucking say "Hey, this screenshot is awesome!"
I do it. And if I can than everyone else can.

Are y'all like laying in an iron lung or something and can only tap one button to communicate?
Eh, I'm against the whole thumbs-up thing. Like IF said, just leave a comment. The developer will appreciate it and people like to read comments. Besides, I hate the idea of the front page becoming a case of circle-jerked thumbsing to each other. Then only the pretty-pretty-vapid would show up instead of everyone getting a chance to be seen.
Marrend
Guardian of the Description Thread
21781
I can understand you frustration, IF, but, maaaaaybe tone down the expletives to keep the conversation civil? Thanks!

If there is one thing that might be neat, and maybe I'm just talking out loud here, is if it could be set up so that images that are most-liked, highly rated, or whatever, would automatically be shown as the "homepage images" for the gamepage. Though, I suppose a dev could use the built-in option to make an image a "homepage image" for images that they are noticing are getting good ratings (or whatever)?
Sooz
They told me I was mad when I said I was going to create a spidertable. Who’s laughing now!!!
5354
author=Marrend
If there is one thing that might be neat, and maybe I'm just talking out loud here, is if it could be set up so that images that are most-liked, highly rated, or whatever, would automatically be shown as the "homepage images" for the gamepage. Though, I suppose a dev could use the built-in option to make an image a "homepage image" for images that they are noticing are getting good ratings (or whatever)?


This has major potential for abuse. Never give an audience control over someone's presentation.
Red_Nova
Sir Redd of Novus: He who made Prayer of the Faithless that one time, and that was pretty dang rad! :D
9192
author=Liberty
Eh, I'm against the whole thumbs-up thing. Like IF said, just leave a comment. The developer will appreciate it and people like to read comments. Besides, I hate the idea of the front page becoming a case of circle-jerked thumbsing to each other. Then only the pretty-pretty-vapid would show up instead of everyone getting a chance to be seen.


I think that depends on how it's implemented. If we give thumbs the equivalent of page buzz that decays over time, we could keep the screenshots rotating on the front page (or wherever we place the list) without having to see the same shots over and over again. This could encourage devs to upload more screenshots, therefore increasing the activity on the gamepage, encouraging more people to comment. Alternatively, thumbs could only be seen by the devs, so it would just be for their sake and not a popularity measurement.

Regarding the "thumbs vs. comment" issue: I hear legit complaints from devs about the lack of activity on their pages more often than I'd like. The bottom line is: there needs to be more interaction on the game pages. We can yell at people to leave more comments all we want, but not everyone wants to take the time to articulate why they like a screen. Hell, I've seen a few posters around the forums complaining about "vapid" comments, annoyed that all they write is "nice atmosphere" or "I like it." I personally find that silly, but the point is that everyone has their own way of showing appreciation, and we shouldn't be scoffing at someone for the crime of wanting to give some basic feedback.

Yes, ideally every page would have lots of comments and constructive feedback, but I don't think a "my way or the highway" attitude is the best way to encourage feedback of any kind to developers. Hell, it can be discouraging to a dev to see a high view count on their screenshots with absolutely no feedback.


Some ideas/alternatives off the top of my head:

- Instead of thumbs, how about a "reaction" system. A thumbs up alone doesn't help a dev much, so what about something like "Beautiful mapping," "Funny/clever dialogue," "Take it to the screenshot thread," or "too barebones."

- Like I said above, make thumbs/reactions invisible to the public. That way, there won't be any circle-jerking going on on the front page (coughbythewaywhenisthenextWhat'sWrittengonnabechosencough), and the dev would see the reactions and know that they aren't just shouting into the void.

- I like Dyhalto's suggestion of a series of random screenshots instead of a single one on the front page. If that were implemented, it'd have the potential to give a lot of games more exposure. As for the potential of getting lots of junk, I think that problem is mitigated if the chain of screens are clearly labeled as "random screenshots."

- Since we love Makerscore so much, maybe earn 1 Makerscore per game page/screenshot post? Or set up achievements for reaching a certain threshold of posts on game pages and screenshots?

- If we're going to have a thumbs up system, then it's worth considering thumbs down, as well. It could be that people want to offer criticism, but don't want to incite drama. This, I think, would work well with anonymous thumbs. If we're gonna talk about a pure numbers game, a small pool of likes is less telling to a dev than a 50/50 split of likes and dislikes.
author=Sooz
author=Marrend
If there is one thing that might be neat, and maybe I'm just talking out loud here, is if it could be set up so that images that are most-liked, highly rated, or whatever, would automatically be shown as the "homepage images" for the gamepage. Though, I suppose a dev could use the built-in option to make an image a "homepage image" for images that they are noticing are getting good ratings (or whatever)?
This has major potential for abuse. Never give an audience control over someone's presentation.

Just wanted to chime in again and say that, yeah, totally agreed here. We don't want to give away control over someone's game page to other users.

I should have clarified from the beginning that it wouldn't necessarily have to be a numerical score. Some vague form of a "Like" or reaction system that's secondary to text comments, would fulfill the same role.

Ultimately, I agree with Kaempfer's and LBR's comments, though. RMN has become very (increasingly) focused on being a tight-knit internet forum, which is great, but unlike InfectionFiles, I don't think we need to limit ourselves to that.

WIP designed this site to be an antidote to GW, which was strictly dominated by the forum banter. Game content isn't allowed on the forums besides, say, the screenshot topic, so how exactly do we promote the lesser-known games that aren't as "viral" as One Shot or Ara Fell? It can't merely hinge on Review events either, because those only appeal to a small handful of our total members.

I think RedNova really nailed it on the head here:
author=RedNova
Regarding the "thumbs vs. comment" issue: I hear legit complaints from devs about the lack of activity on their pages more often than I'd like. The bottom line is: there needs to be more interaction on the game pages. We can yell at people to leave more comments all we want, but not everyone wants to take the time to articulate why they like a screen. Hell, I've seen a few posters around the forums complaining about "vapid" comments, annoyed that all they write is "nice atmosphere" or "I like it."


I totally understand Liberty's concerns about RMN becoming too much like other social media, where nothing meaningful is written a response to the content, but I don't necessarily see that happening here. Sometimes even the comments people leave are equally devoid of anything useful.

If not this suggestion, we need to set up -some- larger incentives for commenting on other people's stuff, besides just whoever might be our friend on the site.
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